Cup RACE thread --- Kansas

jaqua19 said:
Cliff seems to have some confidence and a plan but I don't think it's gonna work out. Larson is gonna be 2 laps down.
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I got the impression that Cliff was all hyped up but Kyle was like "I'm in the way" and could not get CD to understand they had done all they could do and it was what it was.
 
I know it's easy to Monday (or Tuesday in this case) AM QB but I have just had it with Alan G. I feel like the sport has passed him by some. It was hard enough for Chase to come from the back once. Passing is tough enough but he mostly called strategy all day that lost them track position over and over and I am really not even sure how he finished 9th. I think they have speed capable of winning a lot of the time now but the strategy is always not indictive of what is happening. The only race this year I saw different from him was Texas and what happened there? Oh yeah - their only W.

Oh well, I hope I am wrong and there is something I am not seeing because I feel Ike this is as good as it will get with Chase and AG. The occasional win and maybe round of 8. On to Talladega where if Chase gets caught up in the big one it will be must-win at the Roval and not having any playoff points will finally bite him. The guys in front of him are hard enough to beat straight up but when you give them a 25-35 point jump you simply cannot afford a bad run and missing out on stage points.

One other note - Where did the speed from the 88 come from? He seems to have more speed than Larson and Chase all the sudden. Very odd since we really have never seen much from him outside of the occasional win.
 
Send flowers and condolences to Hendrick Racing. Thoughts and prayers for the 9 car.

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Chase Fan 79 said:
I know it's easy to Monday (or Tuesday in this case) AM QB but I have just had it with Alan G. I feel like the sport has passed him by some. It was hard enough for Chase to come from the back once. Passing is tough enough but he mostly called strategy all day that lost them track position over and over and I am really not even sure how he finished 9th. I think they have speed capable of winning a lot of the time now but the strategy is always not indictive of what is happening. The only race this year I saw different from him was Texas and what happened there? Oh yeah - their only W.

Oh well, I hope I am wrong and there is something I am not seeing because I feel Ike this is as good as it will get with Chase and AG. The occasional win and maybe round of 8. On to Talladega where if Chase gets caught up in the big one it will be must-win at the Roval and not having any playoff points will finally bite him. The guys in front of him are hard enough to beat straight up but when you give them a 25-35 point jump you simply cannot afford a bad run and missing out on stage points.

One other note - Where did the speed from the 88 come from? He seems to have more speed than Larson and Chase all the sudden. Very odd since we really have never seen much from him outside of the occasional win.
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Typo there.....I meant the speed in the 48.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
I got the impression that Cliff was all hyped up but Kyle was like "I'm in the way" and could not get CD to understand they had done all they could do and it was what it was.
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He couldn't understand what was causing the sensations Kyle was experiencing.

But after their final stop, the made some data readings that according Cliff, may indicate a "leaking air box" whatever that is, and if that was the case, it would cause the car to plow / not have power like he did.

Give them credit for salvaging a p26, but man, woulda been nice if it happened in stage 2. Two wrecks in the first 10 laps of a playoff race.

Surely he's due for a finish at Talladega lol
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
I know it's easy to Monday (or Tuesday in this case) AM QB but I have just had it with Alan G. I feel like the sport has passed him by some. It was hard enough for Chase to come from the back once. Passing is tough enough but he mostly called strategy all day that lost them track position over and over and I am really not even sure how he finished 9th. I think they have speed capable of winning a lot of the time now but the strategy is always not indictive of what is happening. The only race this year I saw different from him was Texas and what happened there? Oh yeah - their only W.

Oh well, I hope I am wrong and there is something I am not seeing because I feel Ike this is as good as it will get with Chase and AG. The occasional win and maybe round of 8. On to Talladega where if Chase gets caught up in the big one it will be must-win at the Roval and not having any playoff points will finally bite him. The guys in front of him are hard enough to beat straight up but when you give them a 25-35 point jump you simply cannot afford a bad run and missing out on stage points.

One other note - Where did the speed from the 88 come from? He seems to have more speed than Larson and Chase all the sudden. Very odd since we really have never seen much from him outside of the occasional win.
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Ask @AdoubleU24 and @Dr_B_UNC how I feel about Alan. Lol.

I think the sport has long passed him by, and the championship from 2020 has kept his job with Chase. Chase is happy with him, but I think he needs someone younger, more fiery etc.

As for the 48, I don't buy it yet. He had a great run at Atlanta, Watkins Glen I don't think he did much, and Bristol, despite sitting on the pole, went a lap down.
 
jaqua19 said:
As for the 48, I don't buy it yet. He had a great run at Atlanta, Watkins Glen I don't think he did much, and Bristol, despite sitting on the pole, went a lap down.
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He finished 9th at Bristol … on the lead lap.

McDowell was the first car a lap down, in 11th.
 
StandOnIt said:
Send flowers and condolences to Hendrick Racing. Thoughts and prayers for the 9 car.

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Well, as I have mentioned more than once this year, The 9's average finish is driven by the lack of really bad finishes, not really good finishes. That 11.3 might look impressive, but it hasn't translated to wins or stage points, and in this dumpster fire of a playoff system we have, that's what matters. Finishing 9th and getting 2 stage points doesn't do much when you are hovering near the cut line. I'd FAR rather have Byron's 8th best average finish and those wins and bonus points. The Terry Labonte approach to winning a title is dead and buried. I have always been a defender of Alan G, but some of the pit calls made in the last six weeks or so have left me totally baffled and discouraged.
 
I think the elbows up, smash mouth driving style the playoff forces drivers to do doesn't suit Elliott that well. He keeps it clean, doesn't force it and gets the best finishes he can. I think if he doesn't get wrecked he will make it out of this round no problem.
 
StandOnIt said:
I think the elbows up, smash mouth driving style the playoff forces drivers to do doesn't suit Elliott that well. He keeps it clean, doesn't force it and gets the best finishes he can. I think if he doesn't get wrecked he will make it out of this round no problem.
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It's the car. Elliott was plenty agressive in the gen 6. He's alluded the the gen 7 car giving him a hard time
 
Formerjackman said:
Well, as I have mentioned more than once this year, The 9's average finish is driven by the lack of really bad finishes, not really good finishes. That 11.3 might look impressive, but it hasn't translated to wins or stage points, and in this dumpster fire of a playoff system we have, that's what matters. Finishing 9th and getting 2 stage points doesn't do much when you are hovering near the cut line. I'd FAR rather have Byron's 8th best average finish and those wins and bonus points. The Terry Labonte approach to winning a title is dead and buried. I have always been a defender of Alan G, but some of the pit calls made in the last six weeks or so have left me totally baffled and discouraged.
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I may be a fan but I think you are selling Chase a little short there. He does have 8 top-5's. I will compare him to Larson for this point so this is only 3 less than Larson. Chase also has 15 top 10's which is one more than Larson. Ture that he does not have the stage or race wins but he has been showing speed and in my opinion is probably the most steady and consistent driver in the sport right now but Reddick is in that conversation as well after the year he had. If Chase is not caught up in a wreck at Daytona he probably wins the regular season title and has enough playoff points from that to carry him to the round of 8. I do agree though that the Terry Labonte approach is dead. You can make the playoffs on it but Chase will likely need to win to advance.
 
jaqua19 said:
It's the car. Elliott was plenty agressive in the gen 6. He's alluded the the gen 7 car giving him a hard time
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Right. I think Chase still has work to do there too but he has improved since last year. With better calls though he was probably a solid top 5 at Kansas and possibly even competing for the win depending on how some restarts shook out.
 
StandOnIt said:
I think the elbows up, smash mouth driving style the playoff forces drivers to do doesn't suit Elliott that well. He keeps it clean, doesn't force it and gets the best finishes he can. I think if he doesn't get wrecked he will make it out of this round no problem.
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That's an IF though. He certainly doesn't have much margin for error.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
I may be a fan but I think you are selling Chase a little short there. He does have 8 top-5's. I will compare him to Larson for this point so this is only 3 less than Larson. Chase also has 15 top 10's which is one more than Larson. Ture that he does not have the stage or race wins but he has been showing speed and in my opinion is probably the most steady and consistent driver in the sport right now but Reddick is in that conversation as well after the year he had. If Chase is not caught up in a wreck at Daytona he probably wins the regular season title and has enough playoff points from that to carry him to the round of 8. I do agree though that the Terry Labonte approach is dead. You can make the playoffs on it but Chase will likely need to win to advance.
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I understand your position, but I'll repeat what I said. Who's record do you want this year, Chase Elliott's, or William Byron's? The 24 basically disappeared for half the regular season, yet he is almost a shoe in to advance, and Chase is in a dogfight for his life.
 
Formerjackman said:
I understand your position, but I'll repeat what I said. Who's record do you want this year, Chase Elliott's, or William Byron's? The 24 basically disappeared for half the regular season, yet he is almost a shoe in to advance, and Chase is in a dogfight for his life.
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Obviously at this point I'd rather have the PP's but just saying that Chase's average finish is not just because of lack of bad finishes. He has lots of good finishes. Just no the wins and stage wins he needs to be able to point through to Phoenix which is why I would take the PP's now.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
I may be a fan but I think you are selling Chase a little short there. He does have 8 top-5's. I will compare him to Larson for this point so this is only 3 less than Larson. Chase also has 15 top 10's which is one more than Larson. Ture that he does not have the stage or race wins but he has been showing speed and in my opinion is probably the most steady and consistent driver in the sport right now but Reddick is in that conversation as well after the year he had. If Chase is not caught up in a wreck at Daytona he probably wins the regular season title and has enough playoff points from that to carry him to the round of 8. I do agree though that the Terry Labonte approach is dead. You can make the playoffs on it but Chase will likely need to win to advance.
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And if Larson isn't caught up in a wreck he wins the regular season title.

I think the criticism against the 9 team is valid. Chase does a great job of finishing where the car deserves to finish but by his own admission, he has deficits with this car which make it hard for him to be breakthrough fast.

And I don't think Alan is helping there. Elliott needs to be winning races.
 
jaqua19 said:
And if Larson isn't caught up in a wreck he wins the regular season title.

I think the criticism against the 9 team is valid. Chase does a great job of finishing where the car deserves to finish but by his own admission, he has deficits with this car which make it hard for him to be breakthrough fast.

And I don't think Alan is helping there. Elliott needs to be winning races.
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I agree but I also think Larson lost a lot of points being too aggressive at times and ending up getting caught up in a wreck. I know it was after the playoffs started but after he wrecked all by himself at ATL Chase said you need to tighten me up because if I push any harder I will end up like the 5. I think Chase lives a little too conservative at times for sure but still respect to him for knowing where that line is. There was one race this year where I saw AG make better calls and then Chase became more aggressive. That was Texas.
 
Formerjackman said:
I understand your position, but I'll repeat what I said. Who's record do you want this year, Chase Elliott's, or William Byron's? The 24 basically disappeared for half the regular season, yet he is almost a shoe in to advance, and Chase is in a dogfight for his life.
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PlAyOfFs
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
I agree but I also think Larson lost a lot of points being too aggressive at times and ending up getting caught up in a wreck. I know it was after the playoffs started but after he wrecked all by himself at ATL Chase said you need to tighten me up because if I push any harder I will end up like the 5. I think Chase lives a little too conservative at times for sure but still respect to him for knowing where that line is. There was one race this year where I saw AG make better calls and then Chase became more aggressive. That was Texas.
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Chase was extremely aggressive up until the gen 7 car. I've said over and over that he used to fill holes that weren't always there, he raced similarly (But not entirely) to how Larson races now.

There's a reason he's had arguably more run ins on track with drivers than anyone else. Chase would get roughed up, but he also roughed a lot of people up. Not sure why this wasn't commonly accepted - for a good 3-4 years he was amongst the most aggressive in the sport.

But instead of refining that aggression, he just dialed it back. And I just don't think Alan is the guy anymore to help Chase find speed, or even motivate him.

I don't know what Alan communicates to Chase during the race, but Cliff is always giving Larson really valuable information about not just speed, but what other fast drivers are doing such as lifting, turning in, etc. Larson always had the talent but Cliff coaches the hell out of him behind the wheel and the two of them as a result have a pretty clear understanding of what Kyle needs to be race winning fast. All of HMS has speed, but Larson and Cliff have a much more clear understanding about what is needed for Larson to be race winning fast. They've figured out the formula for it and it's why he's been the dominant driver of the gen 7 era.

With Chase, the talent is also there, but I just don't think he and Alan have figured out that "formula", and Chase isn't comfortable pushing it to figure it out. I don't think Alan is the crew chief to help him figure it out at this point either.

I could be talking out of my ass but I really think Chase needs a different leader a top the pit box at this point. Someone younger and more educated honestly
 
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