23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

aunty dive said:
Here’s some …

“In a court filing, 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports indicated they planned to file a motion for preliminary injunction “on or about October 8.” In their complaint, the two teams stated that they planned to file a preliminary injunction “that will allow them to accept and operate under the 2025 Charter Agreement until the case is resolved.”

And some more …

“NASCAR and France have not commented publicly on the suit. NASCAR and France both had a waiver of the service summons. That means that they do not have to serve an answer to the complaint until 60 days after the request was sent (which was Oct. 2). Their response is due by Dec. 2.”

www.nbcsports.com

Denny Hamlin focuses on Talladega playoff race amid lawsuit vs. NASCAR

Denny Hamlin said of his mindset for Sunday's playoff race: "I hate to lose and certainly will not justify any excuses to losing. So I’m going to give it all I can.”
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com
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NASCAR v. The GOAT.....MJ's star power is all of a sudden one hell of an inconvenience for NASCAR. Love it. The good ole boys are squirming just a bit. Wonder how many redneck assholes hoped he would be a silent partner...or thought that was his "place?"
 
Revman said:
NASCAR v. The GOAT.....MJ's star power is all of a sudden one hell of an inconvenience for NASCAR. Love it. The good ole boys are squirming just a bit.
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IDK about that. They are wanting to operate under the '25 charter agreement and they don't know if they can yea or nay until Dec 2. It looks like as late as Dec 2, if Nascar were to say no, a court date would be set. But who knows, it could get settled before they go to court. I think they are both squirming. :idunno:
 
StandOnIt said:
IDK about that. They are wanting to operate under the '25 charter agreement and they don't know if they can yea or nay until Dec 2. It looks like as late as Dec 2, if Nascar were to say no, a court date would be set. But who knows, it could get settled before they go to court. I think they are both squirming. :idunno:
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It is very interesting. I think MJ could walk away, and be just fine. Not sure what the hell would be done with Airspeed....I am sure Michael could turn it into something. I think the fundamental question must be asked (in honor of Big Bill).....Who needs who more? I am not sure that MJ needs NASCAR as much as NASCAR needs MJ.
 
StandOnIt said:
IDK about that. They are wanting to operate under the '25 charter agreement and they don't know if they can yea or nay until Dec 2. It looks like as late as Dec 2, if Nascar were to say no, a court date would be set. But who knows, it could get settled before they go to court. I think they are both squirming. :idunno:
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Only way the outliers race next year is via court order. Or a settlement. I don't see how a settlement is possible. Be shocked if NASCAR hadn't already pretty much gamed this out before dropping the sign or get whacked Friday deal. Gonna get ugly and I'm here for it. Teams agreeing to the "outsourced" Next Gen was a huge mistake. I'm not 100% clear on what the teams own now beyond their shop.

That NASCAR quit communicating with RTA should have been time teams joined into a lawsuit. They waiting too long. Let NASCAR divide and conquer like they've always done.
 
Given the way NASCAR allegedly screws its teams, I wonder what The Felon, Coach, and Penske's take is on all of this? The Felon, in particular, I would think could bring NASCAR to its knees by walking away, and going Indy Car if they wanted. Why the hell do these guys stick around, and...if the narrative is true....lose money?
 
Revman said:
Given the way NASCAR allegedly screws its teams, I wonder what The Felon, Coach, and Penske's take is on all of this? The Felon, in particular, I would think could bring NASCAR to its knees by walking away, and going Indy Car if they wanted. Why the hell do these guys stick around, and...if the narrative is true....lose money?
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Why has Penske created a business model charter system similar to Nascar if it is so terrible? So everybody can agree with it and then sue him lol.
 
StandOnIt said:
Eh, it's about 4 out of the 36 charters. Squeaky wheel trying to get the grease thing. Good luck. It might be different if all of the charter members were joined in the suit. But just two teams against a company doing business?
It doesn't look like they will get Justin Marks to go along with it.
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This makes no sense. One plaintiff is enough. This is about whether or not NASCAR is violating antitrust laws. The number of suing teams isn't relevant.
 
Revman said:
It is very interesting. I think MJ could walk away, and be just fine. Not sure what the hell would be done with Airspeed....I am sure Michael could turn it into something. I think the fundamental question must be asked (in honor of Big Bill).....Who needs who more? I am not sure that MJ needs NASCAR as much as NASCAR needs MJ.
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Yeah, I've wondered this as well, lawsuit aside.

MJ isn't as rich as the France family, but he's absolutely bigger than NASCAR, which hasn't happened before.

I've seen people refute this by referencing the limits of even Dale Sr's pull, but Dale isn't MJ. Michael Jordan is the most famous athlete of all time, and probably still one of the most famous people in the world.

Maybe the Frances don't care. But getting sued by MJ, and then having MJ walk away from the sport is a historic fail of epic proportions. NASCAR will never be respected by sports fans who aren't already invested in the sport of its something MJ sued and then walked away from.

This doesn't have any lawsuit implication, imo, but NASCAR's public image could be at the mercy of what MJ does. He's bigger than NASCAR. Much bigger.
 
I do find it strange that people think nascar can't afford to lose MJ. Really? What is he bringing that's holding the sport up right now?

Most of the young, new, fans that they're trying to attract don't refer to MJ as the GOAT, rather the shoe guy

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jaqua19 said:
Yeah, I've wondered this as well, lawsuit aside.

MJ isn't as rich as the France family, but he's absolutely bigger than NASCAR, which hasn't happened before.

I've seen people refute this by referencing the limits of even Dale Sr's pull, but Dale isn't MJ. Michael Jordan is the most famous athlete of all time, and probably still one of the most famous people in the world.

Maybe the Frances don't care. But getting sued by MJ, and then having MJ walk away from the sport is a historic fail of epic proportions. NASCAR will never be respected by sports fans who aren't already invested in the sport of its something MJ sued and then walked away from.

This doesn't have any lawsuit implication, imo, but NASCAR's public image could be at the mercy of what MJ does. He's bigger than NASCAR. Much bigger.
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I'll take your one MJ and raise ya a Penske, Hendrick, Gibbs and a Marks. Now who is most important to the sport again?
 
wi_racefan said:
When compared to other sports I think nascar is ahead of others when it comes to transparency and fairness.

It's a private company they don't need to open their finances to the public.



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I'm going to disagree. I hope they get their ass kicked in court.
 
A member of the public could bring this and any other antitrust case.

Beyond that, the current charters, including the 4 in question, remain in effect until the end of the year and the date for the injunction hearing is in early December.
 
aunty dive said:
A member of the public could bring this and any other antitrust case.

Beyond that, the current charters, including the 4 in question, remain in effect until the end of the year and the date for the injunction hearing is in early December.
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Yeah, that means they don't know if they have charters.
 
jaqua19 said:
NASCAR will never be respected by sports fans who aren't already invested in the sport of its something MJ sued and then walked away from.
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NASCAR got along before Jordan got to it, it will go along when he's gone.

If anyone has hard documentation as to how many people he's brought to the sport, I'd appreciate seeing them. Personally, I'm not motivated to watch something because of an owner.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
NASCAR got along before Jordan got to it, it will go along when he's gone.

If anyone has hard documentation as to how many people he's brought to the sport, I'd appreciate seeing them. Personally, I'm not motivated to watch something because of an owner.
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Yeah, he isn't shooting baskets. He's expendable, but it is going to be interesting to see how it goes. The thing now is about the charters, will they get them, or not for next year. I have a feeling this deal could stretch out for a long time. It's Nascar's advantage to drag it out.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
NASCAR got along before Jordan got to it, it will go along when he's gone.

If anyone has hard documentation as to how many people he's brought to the sport, I'd appreciate seeing them. Personally, I'm not motivated to watch something because of an owner.
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Most aren't. But running Michael Jordan out of the sport is a PR nightmare and you can say goodbye to bringing in fans who aren't niche after that.
 
jaqua19 said:
Most aren't. But running Michael Jordan out of the sport is a PR nightmare and you can say goodbye to bringing in fans who aren't niche after that.
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Okay, I'm 65. Now that I've retired, I don't have regular contact with people in generations after mine. Excuse me for asking,

Is Jordan relevant to younger generations? He hasn't played in over 30 years. Does he have any influence with people of any age who aren't basketball fans? I'm not one, so to me he's another celeb owner. Heck, does he even do shoe ads any more?
 
Conover said:
Well, the two sides have been negotiating for two years per Childress. In any negotiation, there comes a point where the company/owner says “here is our final offer” and “here is our deadline”. NASCAR doesn’t want to continue the charters, but from their perspective, the agreement provides 7 more years of charter operation (and the opportunity to sell at whatever the market would bear). The owners chose to sign, regardless of the time frame “pressure”. Didn’t see enough reason to join the Hamsuit.

This will take some time to sort out. Race on boys, and wreck out Hamcrap.
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I think Childress was clear enough that he (and probably most of the owners) felt they had no choice but to sign. Much like Rick Hendrick, do you think RC sounded like someone who WANTED to sign? A few years ago, I declined to pursue action involving some property that had been in my family for about 75 years. While every fiber of my being wanted to go to war over it, it would have led to me being at odds with my own parents, two aunts, two uncles and several cousins. Ultimately I decided I had no choice but to eat crap and not destroy my family. I think many of the owners felt they were in a similar predicament. Fight on principle, or keep the peace.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, I'm 65. Now that I've retired, I don't have regular contact with people in generations after mine. Excuse me for asking,

Is Jordan relevant to younger generations? He hasn't played in over 30 years. Does he have any influence with people of any age who aren't basketball fans? I'm not one, so to me he's another celeb owner. Heck, does he even do shoe ads any more?
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MJ is a cultural icon. At this point it almost doesn't matter that he ever played basketball any more than it doesn't matter that James Dean only made like four movies. NASCAR doesn't NEED him, and he certainly doesn't need THEM, but after having him, losing him in this manner would be a PR disaster for NASCAR, and it wouldn't take the click bait media five seconds to turn this into a race thing, even though nothing could be further from the truth.
 
Formerjackman said:
Would YOU buy one under the current deal, knowing full well it could become worthless in seven years?
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You have to have faith in the leadership. The company has been in business for over 70 years built from scratch, IMO the best racing organization out there. I wouldn't think you would or some of the others, but that would never cloud my judgement.
 
If Nascar pulled the charters, would Nascar have to compensate the teams? I haven't heard anything about that. Has anybody?
 
rd45usa said:
If Nascar pulled the charters, would Nascar have to compensate the teams? I haven't heard anything about that. Has anybody?
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Nascar hasn't said what they are going to do with the 2 teams with 4 charters. I believe in an extreme case the could take them away. But so far everybody has been allowed to sell them when they left Nascar.
 
Formerjackman said:
Would YOU buy one under the current deal, knowing full well it could become worthless in seven years?
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Yeah its just like any other investment. You have to pay what it's worth. Current selling prices are too high because they anticipated them being permanent and higher profit share.

Is it any coincidence that 2 teams that were in contract to purchase overpriced charters are now forced to sue because the dollars don't add up?

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StandOnIt said:
You have to have faith in the leadership. The company has been in business for over 70 years built from scratch, IMO the best racing organization out there. I wouldn't think you would or some of the others, but that would never cloud my judgement.
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The same leadership that gave us the playoffs you hate so much? That’s the leadership we should trust? Or I guess maybe that leadership is only wrong when it’s something you don’t like, or heck maybe you hate Denny so much and that’s the issue here.
 
Blaze said:
The same leadership that gave us the playoffs you hate so much? That’s the leadership we should trust? Or I guess maybe that leadership is only wrong when it’s something you don’t like, or heck maybe you hate Denny so much and that’s the issue here.
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StandOnIt said:
You have to have faith in the leadership. The company has been in business for over 70 years built from scratch, IMO the best racing organization out there. I wouldn't think you would or some of the others, but that would never cloud my judgement.
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So you would risk 40 million dollars on the good will of an organization that can't even manage their own stupid damaged vehicle policy?
 
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