What did you think of the Martinsville call?

What should NASCAR have done at the end of Martinsville?

  • They got it right, penalize Bell

    Votes: 18 33.3%

  • They should've penalized Bell and Byron

    Votes: 24 44.4%

  • They should've penalized just Byron

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Nobody should've been penalized.

    Votes: 11 20.4%
  • Total voters
    54
Blaze said:
But I’m not sure if we can go off of that and rule it that way. I see your point, and I understand it. One doesn’t happen without the other. But they both still happened and I feel that’s how you have to rule it
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Agreed but note that I said , 'IF there were no manufacturer shenanigans...' With or without games, I don't see a way Larson would point his way past both Bell and Byron. I'm talking hypotheticals.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I respectfully disagree. I think the majority at RF don’t like the playoffs and would prefer total points. The division is between those who view the rules in terms of what they want them to be vs. those who see they're stuck with the rules as they are whether they like them or not.
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NASCAR is penalizing the 20 but not penalizing the 1 and the 3 in order to advance the 24. These aren’t rules. It is race manipulation.
 
BobbyFord said:
NASCAR is penalizing the 20 but not penalizing the 1 and the 3 in order to advance the 24. These aren’t rules. It is race manipulation.
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We don't yet know that NASCAR is or isn't penalizing the #1, #3, #20, or #23. Indeed, I already said I hope three of them will be.

What has Byron done to merit a penalty? Evidence, please.
 
Nascar has allowed the **** show to reach a defending screech. Now Byron is in and all they can do is crucify his blockers into next season but they won't.
 
Blaze said:
Didnt he just need to lose one spot? If Dillon or Ross actually pass him, he loses that spot. It’s why Bell gaining one spot changed it. I’m not sure where the 7 spots come in at.
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Well thats my point. Let me explain my logic a bit more clearly.

Larson finished 7 points behind Byron, which is 7 positions on track. If that race manipulation didn't happen, it naturally ends tightly between Bell and Byron.

So the only way Larson justifiably gets IN where this makes sense is if the race manipulation not only protected Byron from losing spots to Bell, but also protected him from losing those 7 spots to Larson. And in that case, Bell would have finished 3 spots above the cut line after the DQ, with Byron and Larson tied for 5th, 3 below him. So, in that case, sure, throw Larson in....

Bell broke a rule because Byron had that protection, but it was still a safety rule, so he's out.

So the only way you can justifiably put Larson in is if it can be determined that Byron's block advantage allowed him to preserve his points lead over Larson....

Otherwise, I think it just comes down to making it a final 3 and eliminating Byron vs fining the cars for manipulation. You can't justify adding Larson unless the manipulation prevented Larson from being closer to Byron in points
 
BobbyFord said:
There is no credibility in this sport under the current management. It is strictly for profit and entertainment.
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All professional sports are managed for profit. Most of the large non-professional ones are too - college football and basketball, the Olympics, etc.

We're back to what should be vs. what is.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Dillon or Chastain would have passed Byron. He would have lost enough positions that Bell would have been in without needing to pass Wallace.
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Right. BUT the can of worms is open. Regardless of how unnecessary it was, Bell broke a safety rule and Nascar can't undo that. Even though it isn't fair, they can't just say "well, it's okay that you broke a safety rule because you shouldn't been in that position".

Charlie Spencer said:
If there was no manufacturer gimmickry, Larson was still going to be out. If NASCAR's decisions regarding Bell and Byron don't put Larson in, he wasn't going to be in anyway.

Management may suck but Larson's presence or absence from the playoffs isn't an indicator.
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Yeah, this is where I am it too, as much as I hope he DOES get added. You can't justify adding Larson UNLESS the blocking by the 3/1 prevented Byron from losing 7 spots on track/7 points to Larson.

This now becomes a matter of is it a final 3 without Byron, or final 4 with him.

But we could be wrong. MTJ was eliminated due to being in a similar situation as Byron
 
jaqua19 said:
Well thats my point. Let me explain my logic a bit more clearly.

Larson finished 7 points behind Byron, which is 7 positions on track. If that race manipulation didn't happen, it naturally ends tightly between Bell and Byron.

So the only way Larson justifiably gets IN where this makes sense is if the race manipulation not only protected Byron from losing spots to Bell, but also protected him from losing those 7 spots to Larson. And in that case, Bell would have finished 3 spots above the cut line after the DQ, with Byron and Larson tied for 5th, 3 below him. So, in that case, sure, throw Larson in....

Bell broke a rule because Byron had that protection, but it was still a safety rule, so he's out.

So the only way you can justifiably put Larson in is if it can be determined that Byron's block advantage allowed him to preserve his points lead over Larson....

Otherwise, I think it just comes down to making it a final 3 and eliminating Byron vs fining the cars for manipulation. You can't justify adding Larson unless the manipulation prevented Larson from being closer to Byron in points
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See but they already showed they will add people and take people out, Hell they add extra cars, remember Jeff was the 13th car in a 12 race Chase. I get what you’re saying now, at first I thought you meant William losing 7 spots for Bell to get in lol and was so confused. This whole thing is messy. Which is why we just throw the system out of the window
 
Nascar needs to grow up and develop verbage for race manipulation. These "judgement calls" absolutely undercut competition and if competition isn't protected then yes this is the National Association for Stock Car Entertainment.
 
Blaze said:
See but they already showed they will add people and take people out, Hell they add extra cars, remember Jeff was the 13th car in a 12 race Chase. I get what you’re saying now, at first I thought you meant William losing 7 spots for Bell to get in lol and was so confused. This whole thing is messy. Which is why we just throw the system out of the window
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Yeah you're entirely right. I remembered that after the fact. This may mean that the option isn't off the table.

And frankly, I think NASCAR would be happy with Larson in the final 4.

All the Indycar stuff, the Max Verstappen stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it.

I don't think it happens, but it has before
 
There was race manipulation throughout this race. It wasn't just the aforementioned incidents.
 
jaqua19 said:
Yeah you're entirely right. I remembered that after the fact. This may mean that the option isn't off the table.

And frankly, I think NASCAR would be happy with Larson in the final 4.

All the Indycar stuff, the Max Verstappen stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it.

I don't think it happens, but it has before
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No matter what’s decided, they will be sone folks angry, some folks happy, and some folks somewhere in the middle. I wouldn’t wanna be NASCAR lol.
 
NASCAR needs to be officiated by an independent body. I can stomach a bad call. I can’t stomach the same people who have their profits in the line overtly manipulating who moves forward.
 
Blaze said:
No matter what’s decided, they will be sone folks angry, some folks happy, and some folks somewhere in the middle. I wouldn’t wanna be NASCAR lol.
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Yeah, sucks to sleep in a bed you had no reason to make lol
 
Idk how you penalize Byron when he's not behind the wheel of the 1 or 3 cars. If you wanna penalize those two that's fine. That's who I was mad at, not Byron himself
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Idk how you penalize Byron when he's not behind the wheel of the 1 or 3 cars. If you wanna penalize those two that's fine. That's who I was mad at, not Byron himself
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It’s the same way they did it to MTJ when he wasn’t behind the wheel of the 15.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Idk how you penalize Byron when he's not behind the wheel of the 1 or 3 cars. If you wanna penalize those two that's fine. That's who I was mad at, not Byron himself
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I doubt Bowman made his car overweight either. But since we have several levels of “teams” and the driver is penalized when the “team” breaks the rules to give them an advantage….
 
Clutch said:
Like he said.... He got into the marbles
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And like I said intentional or not. If you let someone off because they didn’t do it on purpose, everyone will just say they didn’t do something on purpose. Car didn’t mean weight? Wasn’t on purpose. Sped on pit road? Wasn’t on purpose.
 
Blaze said:
It’s the same way they did it to MTJ when he wasn’t behind the wheel of the 15.
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If it were the 5 and 48 back there blocking for him and refusing to pass, ok I guess? These were just two Chevy's. Now if they can prove there was obvious collusion over the radio between the 24 and those teams, it's an easy penalty. I don't think they can tho. Sounded to me like something that was arranged on the spotters stand which they can't do anything about. Saying "do they know the deal" could even be something discussed in a Chevy meeting before the race. They covered their tracks. Do I think that makes what happened OK? No, but it's gonna be hard for them to justify a penalty here.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
If it were the 5 and 48 back there blocking for him and refusing to pass, ok I guess? These were just two Chevy's. Now if they can prove there was obvious collusion over the radio between the 24 and those teams, it's an easy penalty. I don't think they can tho. Sounded to me like something that was arranged on the spotters stand which they can't do anything about. Saying "do they know the deal" could even be something discussed in a Chevy meeting before the race. They covered their tracks. Do I think that makes what happened OK? No, but it's gonna be hard for them to justify a penalty here.
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Maybe, we just gotta wait and see what happens I guess. Either way, everyone will deny deny deny.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I would also argue that the shenanigans with the 23 and 20 were a direct result of the shenanigans by the Chevy teams.

And all this **** was a direct result of Bowman dumping Hocevar so Chase Elliott could get a caution.
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If Bowman was going to dump someone to help Elliott, he would have waited another 20-30 laps. The finish proved that the caution came much too early to truly benefit Elliott.
 
Clutch said:
It's sucks for Bell!
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Bell and his team **** the bed at the wrong time. This is big time sports. You don't get to race for a championship when you don't produce at the big moments.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
This is pretty damning. And as a HMS/Chevy fan, pretty embarrassing. There need to be penalties across the board, manufacturers manipulating the outcome of this race
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You mean a manufacturer?
 
BobbyFord said:
Larson is the best talent out there. Period.
I would agree if they let him in.
Would you agree that NASCAR management sucks if they don’t?
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So we put people into the playoffs now based on talent? Larson missed the cut just like Elliott did. Boo, hoo come back next year and try harder. As for any shenanigans on the last couple laps, unless somebody can demonstrate that somebody from HMS or JGR went to those other teams and asked them to help, I don't think you can penalize a team because another team took action that ultimately helped them. If everybody can get together and bash a driver for helping the wrong brand car at Daytona, how do we bash anyone for helping the right brand car at Martinsville?
 
Formerjackman said:
So we put people into the playoffs now based on talent? Larson missed the cut just like Elliott did. Boo, hoo come back next year and try harder. As for any shenanigans on the last couple laps, unless somebody can demonstrate that somebody from HMS or JGR went to those other teams and asked them to help, I don't think you can penalize a team because another team took action that ultimately helped them. If everybody can get together and bash a driver for helping the wrong brand car at Daytona, how do we bash anyone for helping the right brand car at Martinsville?
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This post. Right here. All day. Mic is dropped, and goodnight.
 
BobbyFord said:
NASCAR is penalizing the 20 but not penalizing the 1 and the 3 in order to advance the 24. These aren’t rules. It is race manipulation.
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If the 24 team had no knowledge of the manipulation (if it happened) how can you penalize them? Also, if the 1 and 3 were manipulation, then the 23 likely was too.
 
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