23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Goose61 said:
Hard to believe they could cause anymore harm to the sport than NASCAR itself has been doing for the past twenty years.
Click to expand...
Well I guess a person can go round and round with that, but is there a series in the U.S. more popular? they must be doing something right? Plenty of haters don't like to hear that though.
 
Blaze said:
It's a little bit of both. I mean if enough teams walked away, then there is no show. But without NASCAR there isn't one either. The teams deserve a bigger piece of the pie.
Click to expand...
They just want to own something they bought. Pay 40 million for a charter and yet you don't own it? Why would anyone new (team owner) sign on to THAT deal?
 
Greg said:
Perhaps this thing is headed for closure and it's time to consider the big picture, or the heart of the matter.

With great sadness it feels
like it is well nigh sundown for this thread. We will never see a hundred pages.
Click to expand...
Rumor is 23xi and the other dude have been negotiating with CART. Proposing a series of 3 wheeled cars with two front wheels and half a body. Just the right half. Bringing back the Offy.
 
BobbyFord said:
They have a monopoly on stock car racing.
Click to expand...
So let’s define “stock car racing”; because what it once was ain't what it is now. NASCAR fields pure racing vehicles which are designed to compete consistently via very specific specifications and approved parts. The racing body, or shell, is approved for only 3 types of designs, each made to somewhat resemble a specific model of automobile. The Toyota model is transfigured to create a hypothetical 2 door version of the Camary, which doesn’t even exist.

Now any individual or business investment group, could decide to form their own new “stock car racing” series, to compete with NASCAR. They could model the racing cars in many possible ways, keeping it more truly “stock”, or possibly regulating elements to whatever degree, and allowing any number of manufacturers and models to qualify. NASCAR couldn’t do anything to stop it beyond not allowing such racing at their own tracks (which they paid for) or those where contracts may protect their intellectual property and would create a violation. There are a number of tracks this new series could utilize for racing. But it is a big, expensive proposition. So is deciding to start a new company to compete with Boeing for fighter jet contracts.
 
KTMLew01 said:
They just want to own something they bought. Pay 40 million for a charter and yet you don't own it? Why would anyone new (team owner) sign on to THAT deal?
Click to expand...
They bought the rights to a Charter. There was never a guarantee that the Charter was a fixed, permanent asset. It was how a race team could maximize their potential when competing in the NASCAR series. Like similar business rights deals it carried inherent risks. Those risks should be factored into the negotiated price when making such an investment. Dale Jr and his sister wouldn’t do it because, in part, they recognized the possibility it might be dissolved. The current Charter lease holders understand their Charter may not last beyond the current agreement. All teams but two signed it. They will enjoy the benefits as apportioned for at least that many more years, which helps maximize their ROI.
 
Conover said:
They bought the rights to a Charter. There was never a guarantee that the Charter was a fixed, permanent asset. It was how a race team could maximize their potential when competing in the NASCAR series. Like similar business rights deals it carried inherent risks. Those risks should be factored into the negotiated price when making such an investment. Dale Jr and his sister wouldn’t do it because, in part, they recognized the possibility it might be dissolved. The current Charter lease holders understand their Charter may not last beyond the current agreement. All teams but two signed it. They will enjoy the benefits as apportioned for at least that many more years, which helps maximize their ROI.
Click to expand...
It's stupid. I'd take my money elsewhere except NASCAR/France Family owns pretty much all the other racing series & bunch of the tracks in the US except NHRA & IndyCar.

No monopoly there!
 
On this continent all you need to call them stock cars is fenders and some oval tracks.

Conover said:
So let’s define “stock car racing”; because what it once was ain't what it is now.
Click to expand...
Most mechanical devices currently in use fit that category
Conover said:
Now any individual or business investment group, could decide to form their own new “stock car racing” series, to compete with NASCAR. They could model the racing cars in many possible ways, keeping it more truly “stock”, or possibly regulating elements to whatever degree, and allowing any number of manufacturers and models to qualify. NASCAR couldn’t do anything to stop it beyond not allowing such racing at their own tracks (which they paid for) or those where contracts may protect their intellectual property and would create a violation. There are a number of tracks this new series could utilize for racing. But it is a big, expensive proposition. So is deciding to start a new company to compete with Boeing for fighter jet contracts.
Click to expand...
Rather like a monopoly.

On a comparable scale, how many other tracks are available?
 
aunty dive said:
Rather like a monopoly.

On a comparable scale, how many other tracks are available?
Click to expand...
They could buy Rockingham tomorrow. Didn't you watch Tony Stewart's SRX series? They raced all over the mid west. There are tracks all over the East coast and in the rust belt. There isn't any monopoly, these freeloaders are trying to raid the most successful one after all of the hard work was done. They think they are privileged. They think they can easily buy a tiny part of it and that gives them the right to exploit it the way they want and tell the owners what to do.

Get your own series, do the work. That's the cost to be the boss. See Brad Sweet and Kyle Larson. I hear they are offering charters.
 
The SRX Series was a financial failure.

My question refers to comparable scale. Small trucks all over the east coast and in the rust belt can’t feed the TV monster.

It comes back to the same thing every time … the courts will decide whether or not NASCAR is violating anti-trust law. It won’t matter what labels are assigned to the plaintiffs.
 
aunty dive said:
The SRX Series was a financial failure.

My question refers to comparable scale. Small trucks all over the east coast and in the rust belt can’t feed the TV monster.

It comes back to the same thing every time … the courts will decide whether or not NASCAR is violating anti-trust law. It won’t matter what labels are assigned to the plaintiffs.
Click to expand...
I think the courts will be deciding if 23XI violated the Sherman act. Losing your charters is a pretty good indication the courts don't think any anti-trust has been committed. The cake and eat it too is done for you.
Hmm probably a good reason why there is only one Nascar type series in the U.S., Canada, Mexico and Europe. They were all there and well established before 23XI showed up and thought they wanted to be a Nascar racing team.
 
StandOnIt said:
They could buy Rockingham tomorrow. Didn't you watch Tony Stewart's SRX series? They raced all over the mid west. There are tracks all over the East coast and in the rust belt. There isn't any monopoly, these freeloaders are trying to raid the most successful one after all of the hard work was done. They think they are privileged. They think they can easily buy a tiny part of it and that gives them the right to exploit it the way they want and tell the owners what to do.

Get your own series, do the work. That's the cost to be the boss. See Brad Sweet and Kyle Larson. I hear they are offering charters.
Click to expand...
Were i have a problem with you is, when I read your comments ,I see you standing up in a chair with wheels on it screaming and ranting. I can't find your tone anything put completely pizzed off & puzzled that everyone doesn't 100% agree with your opinion. Mine is I treat everyone like we've been buddies for 50 years. Buddies pick on each other and maybe poke at the sore spots. I really can't grasp your passion for any of this. I know your take is, you don't care what I say or how I feel about your comments. Will somehow be kinda offended that I dare comment. Really don't get that level of anger?😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 This will likely get deleted tho. Some will take it as a personal attack. Not intended that way. Love to hear why this matters so much to you. Makes zero difference in my life.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Were i have a problem with you is, when I read your comments ,I see you standing up in a chair with wheels on it screaming and ranting. I can't find your tone anything put completely pizzed off & puzzled that everyone doesn't 100% agree with your opinion. Mine is I treat everyone like we've been buddies for 50 years. Buddies pick on each other and maybe poke at the sore spots. I really can't grasp your passion for any of this. I know your take is, you don't care what I say or how I feel about your comments. Will somehow be kinda offended that I dare comment. Really don't get that level of anger?😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 This will likely get deleted tho. Some will take it as a personal attack. Not intended that way. Love to hear why this matters so much to you. Makes zero difference in my life.
Click to expand...
It's fine man. I don't pay attention to almost all of your posts after the first sentence or two. I choose not to engage or comment on the show you are putting on. You have an ignore button if you can't do it that way...We have been at this point before...You are doing the same thing over and over expecting different results..I suggest moving on, you aren't going to accomplish anything.

P.S. I would look down at the number of pages on this topic. You might ask the same of everybody including yourself.
 
My opinion and I'm sure I'll get some label applied to me but Michael Jordan got to the point he had massive influence in the NBA. When he and his management/legal teams came to NASCAR, he thought he should there too and hopefully it has bit him and knocked him down a notch or 8. He, and his hanger-ons like Hamlin, have every right to compete but not tell NASCAR how to run their business.

Would absolutely love to see a balance sheet on teams top to bottom to see how he and Hamlin are losing money.
 
Yesterday's ruling was favorable to NASCAR. Some of the same commenters who cautioned against jumping to conclusions based on the last set of unfavorable rulings have dispensed with the caution and are doing victory laps to celebrate the demise of 23XI that are perhaps premature.
 
Ford 222 said:
Would absolutely love to see a balance sheet on teams top to bottom to see how he and Hamlin are losing money.
Click to expand...
That's what get me is the "losing money" bit of all this. Let's see, I own a rental property and charge a fair market rent. I actually "lose money" each year on my tax return because I have expenses, mortgage interest and depreciation that offsets my rental income. That loss then offsets other taxable income. Which means I pay less taxes. All the while, the value of the property (assets) continues to significantly increase. It is bs when these race teams say they lose money, they are building race shops similar to the Taj Mahal, paying millions in salaries and executive compensation. Why would a race team even want to show a profit, technically speaking?
 
gnomesayin said:
Yesterday's ruling was favorable to NASCAR. Some of the same commenters who cautioned against jumping to conclusions based on the last set of unfavorable rulings have dispensed with the caution and are doing victory laps to celebrate the demise of 23XI that are perhaps premature.
Click to expand...
There they are, marked up down below in the like line, the gang that have been doing victory laps when the first judge mistakenly gave away the farm to 23 tennis shoe lol. There they are... most of them anyway. All of the yeah Nascar is crooked, yeah get em, make em open their books, Nascar is screwing the teams. I see ya. You will all pop out if something happens your way, 😁
 
StandOnIt said:
There they are, marked up down below in the like line, the gang that have been doing victory laps when the first judge mistakenly gave away the farm to 23 tennis shoe lol. There they are... most of them anyway. All of the yeah Nascar is crooked, yeah get em, make em open their books, Nascar is screwing the teams. I see ya. You will all pop out if something happens your way, 😁
Click to expand...

Seems pretty disrespectful the way you view other forum members. Or specifically any that disagree with you about anything.
 
Conover said:
They bought the rights to a Charter. There was never a guarantee that the Charter was a fixed, permanent asset. It was how a race team could maximize their potential when competing in the NASCAR series. Like similar business rights deals it carried inherent risks. Those risks should be factored into the negotiated price when making such an investment. Dale Jr and his sister wouldn’t do it because, in part, they recognized the possibility it might be dissolved. The current Charter lease holders understand their Charter may not last beyond the current agreement. All teams but two signed it. They will enjoy the benefits as apportioned for at least that many more years, which helps maximize their ROI.
Click to expand...
I can’t ever recall reading anything where the idea of making making charters fixed was discussed by NASCAR. I thought they were available for teams to use, lease or sell & at the end of the broadcast deal the charters returned to Nascar to do with what they wanted.
 
AlTerego said:
I can’t ever recall reading anything where the idea of making making charters fixed was discussed by NASCAR. I thought they were available for teams to use, lease or sell & at the end of the broadcast deal the charters returned to Nascar to do with what they wanted.
Click to expand...
I don't remember the last part quite like that, in early charterville there was a clause that if you didn't perform well after an amount of time you could either sell your charter, or Nascar would take it away. A brilliant move to get rid of the start and parkers and leave them with a golden parachute of sorts when they sold out and left and it strengthend the herd for the next teams that bought the available charter(s) if they performed.
I'm not sure that is still in place anymore? But it has had a pretty good influence on the competition aspect.
 
AlTerego said:
I can’t ever recall reading anything where the idea of making making charters fixed was discussed by NASCAR. I thought they were available for teams to use, lease or sell & at the end of the broadcast deal the charters returned to Nascar to do with what they wanted.
Click to expand...
This is what's always bothered me. Say NASCAR decides to end the charter program (as it's occasionally mentioned), either collectively or individually. If you're one of those teams that was handed a charter for free back in 2015, no problem; you're not out anything. If you're one of those teams who 'bought'* a charter since then, you're out the money you paid with no option for a return on investment. The more recently you 'bought' that charter, the more money you're likely to lose.

*I say 'bought' in quotes because if NASCAR can take it away, do you actually own anything?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
This is what's always bothered me. Say NASCAR decides to end the charter program (as it's occasionally mentioned), either collectively or individually. If you're one of those teams that was handed a charter for free back in 2015, no problem; you're not out anything. If you're one of those teams who 'bought'* a charter since then, you're out the money you paid with no option for a return on investment. The more recently you 'bought' that charter, the more money you're likely to lose.

*I say 'bought' in quotes because if NASCAR can take it away, do you actually own anything?
Click to expand...
Other than the charters of having the cake and eating it too who didn't sign the contract, and nothing has been said about what is going to happen with the charters they have, when has any of this remotely happened. I can't remember any can you?
 
AlTerego said:
I can’t ever recall reading anything where the idea of making making charters fixed was discussed by NASCAR. I thought they were available for teams to use, lease or sell & at the end of the broadcast deal the charters returned to Nascar to do with what they wanted.
Click to expand...
How can you sell something you don't own? Seems illegal to me. Had a woman here in Raleigh that "stole", thru legal paperwork, the deed to a guys house. Just filed paperwork that said she was the owner. Been fighting over it for years in court. Sounds adjacent to me. Why can't I just take ownership of all the charter's since seems nobody actually owns them?

Somebody mentioned NASCAR just "buying the six charters" and doing whatever they want with them. How much is a charter? Give me a firm number. If NASCAR says 15 million, Dale Jr will be a Cup Team owner soon after. But not at 40 because they could suddenly be 15 million if NASCAR says that's the top value.

Is Hendricks charters worth more than Spires orr somebody even less well funded? I believe this is where this will go. SOMEBODY has to say, charter is X amount. Then if team owner dies in a plane crash there is a number value. Some here seem to feel any of the teams have no value. They just stealing from NASCAR. Is a chartered team worth more to sponsors. You betcha!
 

Charlie Spencer said:
This is what's always bothered me. Say NASCAR decides to end the charter program (as it's occasionally mentioned), either collectively or individually. If you're one of those teams that was handed a charter for free back in 2015, no problem; you're not out anything. If you're one of those teams who 'bought'* a charter since then, you're out the money you paid with no option for a return on investment. The more recently you 'bought' that charter, the more money you're likely to lose.

*I say 'bought' in quotes because if NASCAR can take it away, do you actually own anything?
Click to expand...
Were they free? It was negotiated between NASCAR & RTA I believe. So free? So they had zero value. Why they 40 million now?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom