23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

www.jalopnik.com

NASCAR Charters: Explained - Jalopnik

If you’ve been following any of the NASCAR silly season news, you’ll certainly have heard the word “charter” thrown around. But if you’re new to NASCAR—or if you just don’t follow all the ins and outs of the series with a magnifying glass—then we’ll let you know everything you need to know about...
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StandOnIt said:
Other than the charters of having the cake and eating it too who didn't sign the contract, and nothing has been said about what is going to happen with the charters they have, when has any of this remotely happened. I can't remember any can you?
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My apologies, I wasn't referring to this specific case. It was a general point of confusion.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
My apologies, I wasn't referring to this specific case. It was a general point of confusion.
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Well I thought when I said when has any of the things you were worried about actually happened because I couldn't remember any. I think a good way to think of it is that the charters are mostly like a lease to own. The leasee gets certain benefits for a price, but if they decide to not renew the lease they can sell their part of the lease if the owner of the lease permits it.
 
StandOnIt said:
Well I thought when I said when has any of the things you were worried about actually happened because I couldn't remember any.
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Took me a bit of digging.
According to sources, NASCAR issued a stern warning to teams about the Friday Charter Agreement deadline, where NASCAR Cup Series team owners were threatened with the revocation of their Charters if they didn't sign the deal by Friday's deadline. The sources say the threat was aimed at pressuring the teams into signing the agreement.
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Sports Illustrated, Sept 2024 - https://www.si.com/onsi/racing-amer...f-latest-charter-agreement-drama-01j78ttm0q90


StandOnIt said:
I think a good way to think of it is that the charters are mostly like a lease to own. The leasee gets certain benefits for a price, but if they decide to not renew the lease they can sell their part of the lease if the owner of the lease permits it.
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I'm happy to take your word. I've bought lots of things but have no experience and little knowledge of leasing.
 
It isn't rocket science unless a person decides not to learn it. Then they can make it complicated of sorts. The lease terms were written discussed re discussed on and on for over two years and many meetings. Teams had plenty of time to sell out if they weren't going to sign. Instead two teams didn't sign and already had made arraignments to buy other charters that were available and a judge mistakenly allowed them to complete the sale and get all of the benefits of the charters, deprive the other teams that did sign of increased monies from Nascar not having to pay the extra charters. A bigger piece of the pie would have gone to the signed teams.
 
DIDIT said:
That's what get me is the "losing money" bit of all this. Let's see, I own a rental property and charge a fair market rent. I actually "lose money" each year on my tax return because I have expenses, mortgage interest and depreciation that offsets my rental income. That loss then offsets other taxable income. Which means I pay less taxes. All the while, the value of the property (assets) continues to significantly increase. It is bs when these race teams say they lose money, they are building race shops similar to the Taj Mahal, paying millions in salaries and executive compensation. Why would a race team even want to show a profit, technically speaking?
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I just think when the big teams claim they are “losing money” in this scenario it is more about “NASCAR is making money of MY efforts and I’m entitled to it and not getting it”. Ain’t no way these teams stay in existence to hemorrhage money for their owners.
 
Ford 222 said:
I just think when the big teams claim they are “losing money” in this scenario it is more about “NASCAR is making money of MY efforts and I’m entitled to it and not getting it”. Ain’t no way these teams stay in existence to hemorrhage money for their owners.
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Apparently 23XI and Front Row weren't losing money at a fast enough pace, so they decided to add another car....
 
wi_racefan said:
Apparently 23XI and Front Row weren't losing money at a fast enough pace, so they decided to add another car....
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Despite being in an expensive court battle that they started while looking in right down the barrels of losing charters. I think they should fire that money grubbing Polk character.
 
Yikes, apparently they struck a nerve.


One of NASCAR’s attorneys even cited a Benjamin Franklin quote Polk allegedly sent to the 15 organizations that read: “We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.”
 
“It scares me to death to think about what all this is costing.”
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Geez, Your Honor, is this your first big-bucks case? Rupert Murdock's lawyers spend this much on coffee. Go ask someone who's presided over the EU vs tech companies what that costs. Not sure how it's relevant anyway, it's not coming out of his pocket.

I haven't read many posts here that expected this to go to trial.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Geez, Your Honor, is this your first big-bucks case? Rupert Murdock's lawyers spend this much on coffee. Go ask someone who's presided over the EU vs tech companies what that costs. Not sure how it's relevant anyway, it's not coming out of his pocket.

I haven't read many posts here that expected this to go to trial.
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wi_racefan said:
We all knew that was coming
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Apparently not.
 
www.sportingnews.com

NASCAR will be allowed to countersue 23XI, Front Row, but ... | Sporting News

The Sanctioning Body will also be in court with the teams that did not sue them on Tuesday over fact discovery financial documents.
www.sportingnews.com www.sportingnews.com

The judge overseeing the case in the Western District of North Carolina has denied the two teams’ motion to dismiss the countersuit, even though it disagreed with key elements of the counterclaim. ... As for the teams fighting the subpoenas, Kaulig Racing has come to an agreement with NASCAR over what financial documents it will share as part of fact discovery, but the remaining 11 teams have still not reached a formal agreement yet,
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The other 11 teams say NASCAR has not been specific enough for their legal likings, according to their Tuesday filing:

“For weeks, counsel for the Non-Party Teams have asked NASCAR what specific financial information from these ‘ordinary course’ financials it believes is relevant. Counsel for NASCA refused to provide any response, instead saying that they ‘can’t know how the data will be used until it is produced, our experts analyze it,’ etc.”
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🎣
 
StandOnIt said:
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So Nascar broke the charter agreements with signed teams ( Non Party Teams) under Rule 45 on the confidentiality clause. SMH.
Nascar wants their cake and eat it too!
bonehead.PNG
 
apnews.com

NASCAR teams fear 'catastrophic' impact of disclosing financial records during court fight

Attorneys for 12 of NASCAR’s 15 race teams told a federal judge that disclosing their financial records to the stock car series would be “catastrophic” to competitive balance.
apnews.com apnews.com

Ross. (attorney for the non party teams) said NASCAR has asked for 11 years of records and communications — including what Hendrick Motorsports spent on both its Garage 56 project building a car to race at the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the cost of Kyle Larson running both the Indianapolis 500 and the Coca-Cola 600 the last two seasons.
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So much for certain assertions that Hendrick has immunity. What the heck do either of those have to do with the profitability of regular Cup operations?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
apnews.com

NASCAR teams fear 'catastrophic' impact of disclosing financial records during court fight

Attorneys for 12 of NASCAR’s 15 race teams told a federal judge that disclosing their financial records to the stock car series would be “catastrophic” to competitive balance.
apnews.com apnews.com


So much for certain assertions that Hendrick has immunity. What the heck do either of those have to do with the profitability of regular Cup operations?
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You want Hendrick testifying for the non party teams regardless. The non parties will make it a party.
I have a feeling the teams don't want the drivers to know how much they are making.
 
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