2018 Sonoma -- TOYOTA/SAVE MART 350 - Pre-Race Thread

JBone88 said:
So? Marcos Ambrose had two Cup wins. So did JPM. They are both on there.

Look at his career numbers on road courses. The dude was highly competitive. And he never drove for the top teams either. Almost won races against the big dogs for his own single car team. Finished 2nd in an Ultra motorsports car in ‘01. He deserves to be on the list.
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Totally agree, should've at least been an honorable mention. He was always at the front much like Ambrose, just didn't have the wins.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Not discounting Richmond, but Stewart and Gordon are simply superior.
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First I'll dispell the myth that Richmond had better equipment and less competition. He did more with less then anybody and raced against the best of the best of his time, Earnhardt,Allison,Petty,Wallace,Rudd,Bodine etc... He was on the Chip every lap and it was an amazing thing to watch. You put Tim in stuff like they have today and Gordon and Stewarts tongue would be hanging out running with him.
 
Someone did ask Rudd why Robby Gordon didn't make the list. He said he fretted over not getting Robby on the list but couldn't decide on one to be removed so RG could get on the list. There just wasn't anyone he wanted to remove.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Did you mean to say 'Someone did ask Craven...'? If so, a moderator can fix that if you'll flag your post.
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Yes, dang it. I meant someone asked Craven.
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Greg said:
I could not disagree more. I think he was clearly better.
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Gordon won 6 road course wins in a row from 1997-2000. I’m not sure Richmond could accomplish that feat especially with talent in the field like Stewart, Robby Gordon, Rudd, Martin & Wallace plus the ringers. He took the best of the best to school on a yearly basis. Even after his peak, Jeff still scored 2 more wins at Sonoma and 7 top 5s. If he doesnt have mechanical and electrical issues at Watkins Glen, he could very well have 2 or 3 more Ws there.

The man is 100% NASCAR road course GOAT, imo.

Would Richmond have had something to say about that on track? I’m not so sure. Wish we could have witnessed it.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Gordon won 6 road course wins in a row from 1997-2000. I’m not sure Richmond could accomplish that feat especially with talent in the field like Stewart, Robby Gordon, Rudd, Martin & Wallace plus the ringers. He took the best of the best to school on a yearly basis. Even after his peak, Jeff still scored 2 more wins at Sonoma and 7 top 5s. If he doesnt have mechanical and electrical issues at Watkins Glen, he could very well have 2 or 3 more Ws there.

The man is 100% NASCAR road course GOAT, imo.

Would Richmond have had something to say about that on track? I’m not so sure. Wish we could have witnessed it.
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Richmond raced against a whole field of hall of fame drivers for comparison of talent. I don't see any difference trying to use the newer talent is better angle for this one. During Richmond's time Nascar was the place to be. They both were good. Craven also said explained why he "thought" Richmond IF he had lived would have gone on to bettering the rest on road courses only.

Richmond had only 185 starts in Cup, 620 fewer than Gordon.
Richmond didn't start out in Hendrick equipment, golden boy did. Richmond only had a year and part of one in Hendrick cars out of 8 years it's like A.J. Almendinger rides.
In 16 Cup starts, Richmond won five. His 31 percent winning percentage on road courses is even more astonishing when you consider he had just entered a period of his career where he had been given the equipment to match his talent when suddenly his career and life unraveled.
No way to prove it, Craven's opinion
I don't believe Richmond had the discipline or structure to match Gordon's career successes, not even close, but I do believe he would have exceeded Gordon's nine road course wins.
 
StandOnIt said:
Richmond raced against a whole field of hall of fame drivers for comparison of talent. I don't see any difference trying to use the newer talent is better angle for this one. During Richmond's time Nascar was the place to be. They both were good. Craven also said explained why he "thought" Richmond IF he had lived would have gone on to bettering the rest on road courses only.

Richmond had only 185 starts in Cup, 620 fewer than Gordon.
Richmond didn't start out in Hendrick equipment, golden boy did. Richmond only had a year and part of one in Hendrick cars out of 8 years it's like A.J. Almendinger rides.
In 16 Cup starts, Richmond won five. His 31 percent winning percentage on road courses is even more astonishing when you consider he had just entered a period of his career where he had been given the equipment to match his talent when suddenly his career and life unraveled.
No way to prove it, Craven's opinion
I don't believe Richmond had the discipline or structure to match Gordon's career successes, not even close, but I do believe he would have exceeded Gordon's nine road course wins.
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Easily
 
SeventyGTX said:
If I remember correctly, didn't he miss several races due to his illness, then came back and won three in a row? No doubt he was one of the greatest shoes ever.
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He won his first two races back after missing the first few months of the season in 1987. A couple months later, he was too sick to keep racing.

He actually started to get sick in the summer of '86 and just thought it was pneumonia or whatever, and it didn't get bad until that winter between '86 and '87, but if you look back and watch some of his interviews in late summer of '86 you'll notice him coughing a little.
 
2 Sweet said:
He won his first two races back after missing the first few months of the season in 1987. A couple months later, he was too sick to keep racing.

He actually started to get sick in the summer of '86 and just thought it was pneumonia or whatever, and it didn't get bad until that winter between '86 and '87, but if you look back and watch some of his interviews in late summer of '86 you'll notice him coughing a little.
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Thanks, that was a long time ago and I remember him winning more than 1 when he came back. I also remember Nascar giving bogus reasons for his declining health even though they supposedly knew what it was. He was a notorious playboy and got wrapped up with the wrong squeeze. So sad right in his racing prime.
 
SeventyGTX said:
Thanks, that was a long time ago and I remember him winning more than 1 when he came back. I also remember Nascar giving bogus reasons for his declining health even though they supposedly knew what it was. He was a notorious playboy and got NASCAR didnt know what was wrong with him because he wouldnt release his medical records thats why they suspended him and even if they found out later when they let him return they couldnt divulge what he had.. The other drivers in the field were concerned Tim was doing drugs and didnt want to race with him.
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Charlie Spencer said:
J'ever notice when the series gets to Watkings Glen, a lot of people urge NASCAR to 'run the boot', but at Sonoma you never hear anyone wanting them to run the loop section between turns 4 and 7?
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It took a long time before I realized old videos from a road course in the 90s eas Sonoma, because they were running that section and being earlier in the season the track had grass.
 
Jones has the helmet cam but has the digital dash turned off

o_O
 
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