2024 Next Gen Car

Turtle84 said:
I read this like 12 times already, and have decided to leave it to the professionals, does that mean the car will be too loose to drive without the undertray/diffuser?
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That’s exactly what it means.

Approx. 75 % of total downforce is generated by the toys under the Gen 7 car.
 
Wow well we're getting a 40% downforce reduction today. Let's see how this goes.
 
aunty dive said:
That’s exactly what it means.

Approx. 75 % of total downforce is generated by the toys under the Gen 7 car.
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Liked what I saw yesterday with the Simple Diffuser and HP boost, there were more loose condition moments than I originally thought, plenty of green flag passes on track thru the field. Less downforce More horsepower. More falloff and if Goodyear is willing to bring an even slightly softer tire to reduce grip later in the run and push the envelope there it could get even better (delicate balance with their name on it).

Heard a good amount of throttle play in the corner, I think they’re one hundred percent pointed the right direction of where they’re trying to go and what they’re trying to make the car do.
 
Turtle84 said:
Liked what I saw yesterday with the Simple Diffuser and HP boost, there were more loose condition moments than I originally thought, plenty of green flag passes on track thru the field. Less downforce More horsepower. More falloff and if Goodyear is willing to bring an even slightly softer tire to reduce grip later in the run and push the envelope there it could get even better (delicate balance with their name on it).

Heard a good amount of throttle play in the corner, I think they’re one hundred percent pointed the right direction of where they’re trying to go and what they’re trying to make the car do.
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I still don't think they went far enough with the aero. Until cars start spinning out on their own on a regular basis keep taking downforce away.
 
wi_racefan said:
I still don't think they went far enough with the aero. Until cars start spinning out on their own on a regular basis keep taking downforce away.
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wi_racefan said:
... I just want a car that showcases a drivers talent
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I've been pleading for years for a skill-based meritocracy, but creating a car that's inherently unstable is not the way to do it. Also, creating a car that flies at the slightest provocation is not a good idea either.

A decade ago, cup cars were generating circa 3,200 pounds of aerodynamic downforce, IIRC. Yesterday, according to Larry Mac, the comparable number was 625 pounds. I think that's a good place to be to showcase driver skill, without becoming a sh**show of wrecks and carnage.

The way to accomplish what you (and I) are asking for is a combination of more horsepower and/or less drag. Less drag is the key, IMO. The NextGen car is loaded with aerodynamic drag, and that just saps the horsepower. Remember, the original intent was to have the 1.5 mile tracks drive and race like Talladega, flat-footed WFO from green flag to checkers. That's what the car was designed for, and the high drag imposed upon the leading car was a crucial part of that (misguided) equation.

The current car is so drag-y that adding 80 HP this weekend was barely detectable. I favor a re-design of the car to lose the excess drag, but that's not cheap (guessing). But returning to 850-900 HP also is not cheap, or so Nascar tells us. But 750 HP is plenty... if the drag is lower like it should be. More acceleration, more corner entry speed, more braking, more off-throttle or partial-throttle time... all the race car driving good stuff (in my opinion).
 
It will be interesting to see what the future brings. Nascar over the years has never stopped working on the car and so far even with the re organization they continue to do so. This last change appeared to put a little more into the driver's hands instead of the techno part of things. The car is so much more important than who is driving it these days that any swing back the other way is a good thing IMO.
 
wi_racefan said:
I still don't think they went far enough with the aero. Until cars start spinning out on their own on a regular basis keep taking downforce away.
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The problem with this is it also inherently benefits the top engineered teams considerably as well. The 2018 package was essentially this and we wound up with Truex, Harvick and Busch winning 10 of 15 1.5-2 mile races that season. And those 3 won all of them before the playoffs started!
 
LewTheShoe said:
I've been pleading for years for a skill-based meritocracy, but creating a car that's inherently unstable is not the way to do it. Also, creating a car that flies at the slightest provocation is not a good idea either.

A decade ago, cup cars were generating circa 3,200 pounds of aerodynamic downforce, IIRC. Yesterday, according to Larry Mac, the comparable number was 625 pounds. I think that's a good place to be to showcase driver skill, without becoming a sh**show of wrecks and carnage.

The way to accomplish what you (and I) are asking for is a combination of more horsepower and/or less drag. Less drag is the key, IMO. The NextGen car is loaded with aerodynamic drag, and that just saps the horsepower. Remember, the original intent was to have the 1.5 mile tracks drive and race like Talladega, flat-footed WFO from green flag to checkers. That's what the car was designed for, and the high drag imposed upon the leading car was a crucial part of that (misguided) equation.

The current car is so drag-y that adding 80 HP this weekend was barely detectable. I favor a re-design of the car to lose the excess drag, but that's not cheap (guessing). But returning to 850-900 HP also is not cheap, or so Nascar tells us. But 750 HP is plenty... if the drag is lower like it should be. More acceleration, more corner entry speed, more braking, more off-throttle or partial-throttle time... all the race car driving good stuff (in my opinion).
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Narrow the roofline and cut the spoiler down
 
Mispeedway15 said:
The problem with this is it also inherently benefits the top engineered teams considerably as well. The 2018 package was essentially this and we wound up with Truex, Harvick and Busch winning 10 of 15 1.5-2 mile races that season. And those 3 won all of them before the playoffs started!
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Was it the top teams or the most talented drivers? The way SHR fell off the map clearly they weren't a tip engineering team
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Narrow the roofline and cut the spoiler down
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They don't need no stinking roofs.

1774457700869.png
 
What say you about less down force?

Mark Martin's Radical Idea to Bring Back Real Racing in NASCAR​

 
I know I have looked at a lot of older races from the era 90, 91 and earlier that Mark was talking about. Like he said only a small handful of cars could run with each other but passes were made. I do wish Nascar and the teams would get on board with the idea, or at least try the Darlington package on a 1.5 mile track for a start and see what it is like with less D/F. The car is so much more important than the driver these days with aero and D/f engineers working around the clock.
 
Race cars are not supposed to be easy to drive. I feel like this car has been too easy as compared to previous cars. Increase the horsepower to 850, take off downforce, and softer tires. I like what I saw at Phoenix and Darlington. They need to take it a bit further.
 
MRM said:
Race cars are not supposed to be easy to drive. I feel like this car has been too easy as compared to previous cars. Increase the horsepower to 850, take off downforce, and softer tires. I like what I saw at Phoenix and Darlington. They need to take it a bit further.
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Not going to get into o/t which version of car is easier to drive over the other, but I hope Mark Martin lit a fire that can't be put out to at least go in the direction of less D/F. Nascar's version of less D/F and Mark's version are two different things. Even a compromise try of half of what they have for down force would be a good test to start with IMO.
 
Some are saying in the media that there might be a way to simulate it on iRacing with a little work. :idunno:
 
NASCAR to hold Daytona test session in January

NASCAR will shorten the lengths of its final two stages in the April 26 race at Talladega Superspeedway to address fuel-saving concerns on superspeedways.

Next January will also bring the return of a “Preseason Thunder” test session at Daytona International Speedway, assessing potential technical changes to the cars that could lessen the impact of conservation strategies at superspeedways.

The concept of drivers running at less than full throttle at the longest tracks on the circuit has drawn negative reactions.

“Listen, we talk to our fans every week,” John Probst, NASCAR’s executive vice president and chief racing development officer, said on the latest episode of the “Hauler Talk” podcast. “So we hear what they’re saying. There’s certainly a lot of feedback from the fans that don’t always like to see some of the three-wide fuel saving that happens mostly at Talladega and Daytona.

“And I think that coming out of Daytona, we have been working hand-in-hand with a lot of our race teams, trying to largely break into two categories of things that we could do. One being the sporting-related things, like rules around pit stops or stage lengths or things of that nature. The other being in a technical bucket, which would mean car changes, spoiler, power levels and things of that nature.”

Though the precise lengths have yet to be announced, Probst said the final two stages at Talladega will be short enough to complete without a fuel stop.

Other topic discussed on the

“Generally, how a lot of our speedways were laid out, it was a short stage, a short stage and then a long stage to the end,” Probst said. “Going into Talladega, we’re going to flip that.”

Last year, Talladega’s segments broke down as 60 laps for the first stage, 60 for the second and 68 for the last.

This year, the first stage likely will be closer to 100 laps, with the last two stages under 50 laps apiece, when the Cup Series returns to the 2.66-mile oval in two weeks.

“It could be interesting in that first stage, if there’s some teams that try to do it on one stop versus some that try to do it on two,” Probst said. “We think that if there are some that do it on two, they may drag the group that would try to do it on one stop. So it’s got some potential for some pretty interesting strategies.”

The dates have yet to be set for the Daytona preseason test, but Probst said it would occur before the Rolex 24, which is slated for Jan. 30-31, 2027 (and will be preceded by an IMSA test at the track on Jan. 22-24).

NASCAR plans to test “some different power levels and spoilers and maybe some other car-type things,” Probst said, adding about fuel strategy that “it’s important to point out that this is a tool now that the teams know. And this is not something that I think is ever going to go away because these guys will look for every possible advantage that they can get. And that’s reasonable on their end. So I think that what we can do is just take steps to mitigate that.”

Also discussed on "Hauler Talk":

With a Goodyear tire test slated April 21 for Chicagoland Speedway, Probst said there isn’t any major repaving needed for the 1.5-mile speedway in Joliet, Illinois.

“The track surface actually weathered pretty well,” Probst said of Chicagoland, which was mostly dormant since the most recent Cup race in July 2019. “There’ll be some track bond to patch up some minor issues and obviously some painting and cleaning up the garage and some retrofitting of the suites. But we’re pretty pleased how the track weathered over time, this current package has had some pretty good racing at Kansas. Chicago is a bit of a sister track to Kansas. So we’re pretty pumped up. We think that’ll be a really good show.”
 
Jimbo Slice said:
NASCAR to hold Daytona test session in January

NASCAR will shorten the lengths of its final two stages in the April 26 race at Talladega Superspeedway to address fuel-saving concerns on superspeedways.

Next January will also bring the return of a “Preseason Thunder” test session at Daytona International Speedway, assessing potential technical changes to the cars that could lessen the impact of conservation strategies at superspeedways.

The concept of drivers running at less than full throttle at the longest tracks on the circuit has drawn negative reactions.

“Listen, we talk to our fans every week,” John Probst, NASCAR’s executive vice president and chief racing development officer, said on the latest episode of the “Hauler Talk” podcast. “So we hear what they’re saying. There’s certainly a lot of feedback from the fans that don’t always like to see some of the three-wide fuel saving that happens mostly at Talladega and Daytona.

“And I think that coming out of Daytona, we have been working hand-in-hand with a lot of our race teams, trying to largely break into two categories of things that we could do. One being the sporting-related things, like rules around pit stops or stage lengths or things of that nature. The other being in a technical bucket, which would mean car changes, spoiler, power levels and things of that nature.”

Though the precise lengths have yet to be announced, Probst said the final two stages at Talladega will be short enough to complete without a fuel stop.

Other topic discussed on the

“Generally, how a lot of our speedways were laid out, it was a short stage, a short stage and then a long stage to the end,” Probst said. “Going into Talladega, we’re going to flip that.”

Last year, Talladega’s segments broke down as 60 laps for the first stage, 60 for the second and 68 for the last.

This year, the first stage likely will be closer to 100 laps, with the last two stages under 50 laps apiece, when the Cup Series returns to the 2.66-mile oval in two weeks.

“It could be interesting in that first stage, if there’s some teams that try to do it on one stop versus some that try to do it on two,” Probst said. “We think that if there are some that do it on two, they may drag the group that would try to do it on one stop. So it’s got some potential for some pretty interesting strategies.”

The dates have yet to be set for the Daytona preseason test, but Probst said it would occur before the Rolex 24, which is slated for Jan. 30-31, 2027 (and will be preceded by an IMSA test at the track on Jan. 22-24).

NASCAR plans to test “some different power levels and spoilers and maybe some other car-type things,” Probst said, adding about fuel strategy that “it’s important to point out that this is a tool now that the teams know. And this is not something that I think is ever going to go away because these guys will look for every possible advantage that they can get. And that’s reasonable on their end. So I think that what we can do is just take steps to mitigate that.”

Also discussed on "Hauler Talk":

With a Goodyear tire test slated April 21 for Chicagoland Speedway, Probst said there isn’t any major repaving needed for the 1.5-mile speedway in Joliet, Illinois.

“The track surface actually weathered pretty well,” Probst said of Chicagoland, which was mostly dormant since the most recent Cup race in July 2019. “There’ll be some track bond to patch up some minor issues and obviously some painting and cleaning up the garage and some retrofitting of the suites. But we’re pretty pleased how the track weathered over time, this current package has had some pretty good racing at Kansas. Chicago is a bit of a sister track to Kansas. So we’re pretty pumped up. We think that’ll be a really good show.”
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Just make the cars nuclear powered.
 
Or just stay green at the end of each stage. When there's no defined break, there's point in saving fuel to get there. Eliminates the 'stage points vs. position' question at road courses too.

Better yet, mandate routine 'gas and tires' stops not involving repairs be done under green.
 
Jimbo Slice said:
NASCAR to hold Daytona test session in January

NASCAR will shorten the lengths of its final two stages in the April 26 race at Talladega Superspeedway to address fuel-saving concerns on superspeedways.

Next January will also bring the return of a “Preseason Thunder” test session at Daytona International Speedway, assessing potential technical changes to the cars that could lessen the impact of conservation strategies at superspeedways.

The concept of drivers running at less than full throttle at the longest tracks on the circuit has drawn negative reactions.

“Listen, we talk to our fans every week,” John Probst, NASCAR’s executive vice president and chief racing development officer, said on the latest episode of the “Hauler Talk” podcast. “So we hear what they’re saying. There’s certainly a lot of feedback from the fans that don’t always like to see some of the three-wide fuel saving that happens mostly at Talladega and Daytona.

“And I think that coming out of Daytona, we have been working hand-in-hand with a lot of our race teams, trying to largely break into two categories of things that we could do. One being the sporting-related things, like rules around pit stops or stage lengths or things of that nature. The other being in a technical bucket, which would mean car changes, spoiler, power levels and things of that nature.”

Though the precise lengths have yet to be announced, Probst said the final two stages at Talladega will be short enough to complete without a fuel stop.

Other topic discussed on the

“Generally, how a lot of our speedways were laid out, it was a short stage, a short stage and then a long stage to the end,” Probst said. “Going into Talladega, we’re going to flip that.”

Last year, Talladega’s segments broke down as 60 laps for the first stage, 60 for the second and 68 for the last.

This year, the first stage likely will be closer to 100 laps, with the last two stages under 50 laps apiece, when the Cup Series returns to the 2.66-mile oval in two weeks.

“It could be interesting in that first stage, if there’s some teams that try to do it on one stop versus some that try to do it on two,” Probst said. “We think that if there are some that do it on two, they may drag the group that would try to do it on one stop. So it’s got some potential for some pretty interesting strategies.”

The dates have yet to be set for the Daytona preseason test, but Probst said it would occur before the Rolex 24, which is slated for Jan. 30-31, 2027 (and will be preceded by an IMSA test at the track on Jan. 22-24).

NASCAR plans to test “some different power levels and spoilers and maybe some other car-type things,” Probst said, adding about fuel strategy that “it’s important to point out that this is a I
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Sounds like a big deal to me. I like any changes that takes away from fuel saving races so it will be interesting to see how this works out. If only they could do something about the silly flipping on road courses and team/manufacturer orders.

Probst says they talk to fans every week, I wonder who those fans are? I'll call BS on this statement. Yes, I know about the fan council and am on it, but I don't think that is what he is implying.
 
StandOnIt said:
www.caranddriver.com

Report: The Chevy Camaro Is Coming Back, and Will Share a Platform with Buick and Cadillac Sedans

A new report says that a next-generation Camaro, next-generation Cadillac CT5, and a new Buick sedan will all be assembled in the U.S. in just two years' time.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
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Mike Joy mentioned this a couple races ago during the broadcast. I don't remember exactly what he said, but referred to a private meeting between Chevrolet executives and dealers, and said "everyone will be happy" with the next car
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Or just stay green at the end of each stage. When there's no defined break, there's point in saving fuel to get there. Eliminates the 'stage points vs. position' question at road courses too.

Better yet, mandate routine 'gas and tires' stops not involving repairs be done under green.
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They will save more that way to make the stop shorter.
 
I'm glad NASCAR is trying to stay ahead of the fuel games the teams are playing. F1 is having quite the fiasco with their new energy regulations
 
Throwing more horsepower at what some think is a problem is not that simple. It's a fine line between making them too hard to drive which leads to a little passing single file racing clean air fest type racing, and being able to have decent passing and side by side racing with the fast cars being able to come from the rear to the front. I have no problem with Nascar sneaking up on it instead of taking the blunderbuss route. Leaving the most important factor aero out of the equation where more gains than horsepower when at speed occur leaves out a lot of a complicated number of factors.
 
hmmm298 said:
They will save more that way to make the stop shorter.
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Won't that happen with the longer stage 1 proposed for Talladega? For the plate races, at least, isn't time gained in the pits hampered by needing to leave with the rest of the group?

I may be the only one who has no problem with fuel saving strategies. I hope the 'solution' isn't setting the breaks so they never have to pit under green.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Won't that happen with the longer stage 1 proposed for Talladega? I hope the solution isn't setting the breaks so they never have to pit under green.
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Considering all of the caution complaining that you do whenever Nascar has one, I wouldn't think that would be something to worry about. They seldom would stay out on old tires.
 
I think they can figure out how to race at the super-speedways with a shorter spoiler. Drag is obviously the main issue with the Cup car at Daytona and Talladega. The front spitter seems to be maxed out, so short of reconfiguring the bodies, that's the only option short of lowering the car even further, which hardly seems possible at this point.
 
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