2025 schedule news/rumors

Jorge De Guzman

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I think the short track package needs to be fixed on these cars before we start giving notice to short tracks for one date and then rejoicing about it. I personally have zero desire to see another road course or street race for Cup, once the schedule skews towards those two types the inevitable fan turn on those will happen in a swift manner.
 

FLRacingFan

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I think the short track package needs to be fixed on these cars before we start giving notice to short tracks for one date and then rejoicing about it. I personally have zero desire to see another road course or street race for Cup, once the schedule skews towards those two types the inevitable fan turn on those will happen in a swift manner.
I think it’s already happened to a degree with road courses. Especially with the Next Gen.

I think I still like Richmond more than most at this point in time but will readily admit it’s not the same show it used to be (still a pretty good one IMO, but a different one). But the fact that it can’t sell out either of its dates after right-sizing, while an increasing number of tracks who did the same do sell out, doesn’t it do it any favors. I do think a night race would help its attendance, especially the summer date, but we all know TV doesn’t care for those anymore.
 

StandOnIt

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Nascar has another short track toy to play with at Iowa starting this year so it makes sense they would be looking at Richmond. Iowa is in a good spot, hopefully it will draw a crowd. They have more short track testing coming up shortly at Phoenix, maybe something will come out of it. Phelps mentioned something about shifting so that probably is on the agenda.
 

StandOnIt

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Nascar has a problem in that their car has to push 200 MPH, and it is supposed to be good on 50, 60 MPH average short tracks. Your normal short track cars have less HP and tons of down force, compared to the opposite of the Cup cars.
 

FLRacingFan

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This is what I don't understand. Why in the world is a night race bad for TV?
Friday and Saturday nights have lower TV usage rates than Sunday since people are out and about, so that’s why Saturday night races have mostly disappeared. Though they’ve made the odd summer race (Nashville, Atlanta, Iowa) a Sunday evening/night race recently, which has not been a bad idea so far. The fall Vegas race was also a late Sunday event for a couple of years until it reverted to its normal time for whatever reason last year.
 

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Nascar has a problem in that their car has to push 200 MPH, and it is supposed to be good on 50, 60 MPH average short tracks. Your normal short track cars have less HP and tons of down force, compared to the opposite of the Cup cars.

^ What?

I honestly don't understand a word of this, and I'm pretty sure I'm not drunk (yet). Can you elaborate?

Friday and Saturday nights have lower TV usage rates than Sunday since people are out and about, so that’s why Saturday night races have mostly disappeared. Though they’ve made the odd summer race (Nashville, Atlanta, Iowa) a Sunday evening/night race recently, which has not been a bad idea so far. The fall Vegas race was also a late Sunday event for a couple of years until it reverted to its normal time for whatever reason last year.

^ While that may be true to a point, I think it lacks the proper context. If someone tunes in to a race on a Sunday afternoon, I think there's a pretty good chance they would have tuned in had it been run on Saturday night. And if they choose to be out and about on a Saturday night as opposed to a Sunday afternoon, they probably DVR'd it and watched it later. So what does it matter? Maybe the networks can't ask as much money for commercial time, but the tracks will likely sell more tickets.
 

StandOnIt

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I honestly don't understand a word of this, and I'm pretty sure I'm not drunk (yet). Can you elaborate?
Maybe a picture will help

1701207610718.jpeg
 

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Maybe a picture will help

What short tracks on the Cup schedule are we averaging 50-60 mph?

"Compared to the opposite of Cup cars" means what, exactly? Are you saying that late models race better at short tracks because they make less power and have more downforce than a Cup car? I'm not trying to be a dick, just trying to figure out what you think NASCAR's problem is at the short tracks, and it's hard to tell what you're getting at from your statement
 

StandOnIt

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The picture above is of a car specifically built for short tracks. It makes lots of down force at slow speeds. A cup car makes downforce but not much until it runs much faster. Same problem to an extent on slower road courses a Nascar has less down force on corners making them less maneuverable in corners where passing could take place.
They took the whole under wing off the Nascars in testing and it didn't make any difference the drivers said. It doesn't work well at low speeds for down force. The rounder sides and rears don't help either like the high slab sides on a short track car.
Trying to jump outside and make a pass is much harder to do with the Nascar with less side and down force.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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I think the short track package needs to be fixed on these cars before we start giving notice to short tracks for one date and then rejoicing about it. I personally have zero desire to see another road course or street race for Cup, once the schedule skews towards those two types the inevitable fan turn on those will happen in a swift manner.

Richmond's been on the boring side more often than not for the better part of the past 20 years. Can't blame the NextGen car for that.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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This is what I don't understand. Why in the world is a night race bad for TV?

Fewer people at home on Friday and Saturday nights - especially in the summer when NASCAR is in full swing. A large percentage of NASCAR's core fans go to their local dirt track or short track on Saturday nights.

When NASCAR held more and more races on Saturday nights in the late-2000s and early-2010s, it was a pretty common complaint from fans that they were going up against short track/dirt track racing.

I like some of the Sunday night races. But Sunday night sporting events start too late because the entertainment world revolves around Las Vegas now.
 

The Nature Boy

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Richmond should definitely be a night race.

Those fans don't like their current deal.

I went to the summer Richmond race a couple of years ago and it was the hottest I've ever been at a NASCAR race. Central Virginia summers are hot, humid, and miserable.

The summer is an ideal time for NASCAR to run Sunday night primetime races. The NFL hasn't started yet and Sunday Night Baseball is the only competition in that time slot.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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Richmond's been on the boring side more often than not for the better part of the past 20 years. Can't blame the NextGen car for that.
I for one have always enjoyed Richmond, found the racing entertaining. There were some stinkers sure, but every track can say that at one time or another.
 

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A large percentage of NASCAR's core fans go to their local dirt track or short track on Saturday nights.

When NASCAR held more and more races on Saturday nights in the late-2000s and early-2010s, it was a pretty common complaint from fans that they were going up against short track/dirt track racing.

That's the only explanation that makes any sense to me.

Unfortunately, I can't relate because I don't have any tracks within an hour of here.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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I went to the summer Richmond race a couple of years ago and it was the hottest I've ever been at a NASCAR race. Central Virginia summers are hot, humid, and miserable.

The summer is an ideal time for NASCAR to run Sunday night primetime races. The NFL hasn't started yet and Sunday Night Baseball is the only competition in that time slot.

Sunday nights are harder on fans though. A lot of the people who go to these races are still working class people who have Monday-Friday jobs. We've talked about it downstairs, what the work culture is like in the south. Some of these dudes who would otherwise go to a Sunday night race probably have to leave for work at 5am or 6am to pull a 12-18 hour shift.
 

StandOnIt

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I'm not buying the fans complaints totally. Too many racing series run in the evening and places like Richmond where everybody knows it is going to be steaming should get a bye on the daytime nonsense.
 

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If NASCAR wants to run a dozen or so Cup races on a Saturday night every year, why don't the local short tracks pay attention to the schedule and adjust theirs accordingly? You figure they know their customer base and would happily move some of their races to a Friday night or a Sunday afternoon to help their own ticket sales so they aren't "competing" against a NASCAR race on a Saturday night.

Hell, NASCAR could even offer incentives for that. Say they pick 150 short tracks across the country, and give them each $500 to cater to their schedule. The tracks would gladly take that money and it only costs them $75k, which is pocket change for NASCAR and would easily be made up (and then some) in increased ticket sales. I'm making a wild assumption here, but I feel like most fans would rather attend a race at 7:00 on a Saturday than 2:30 on a Sunday.

Yes I'm just throwing around random numbers, and no I haven't though this through, but the point is that NASCAR should find a way to run the races whenever they want, while keeping their entire fanbase happy. There's a million ways to make it work.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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If NASCAR wants to run a dozen or so Cup races on a Saturday night every year, why don't the local short tracks pay attention to the schedule and adjust theirs accordingly? You figure they know their customer base and would happily move some of their races to a Friday night or a Sunday afternoon to help their own ticket sales so they aren't "competing" against a NASCAR race on a Saturday night.

It doesn't work that way.
 

StandOnIt

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If NASCAR wants to run a dozen or so Cup races on a Saturday night every year, why don't the local short tracks pay attention to the schedule and adjust theirs accordingly? You figure they know their customer base and would happily move some of their races to a Friday night or a Sunday afternoon to help their own ticket sales so they aren't "competing" against a NASCAR race on a Saturday night.

Hell, NASCAR could even offer incentives for that. Say they pick 150 short tracks across the country, and give them each $500 to cater to their schedule. The tracks would gladly take that money and it only costs them $75k, which is pocket change for NASCAR and would easily be made up (and then some) in increased ticket sales. I'm making a wild assumption here, but I feel like most fans would rather attend a race at 7:00 on a Saturday than 2:30 on a Sunday.

Yes I'm just throwing around random numbers, and no I haven't though this through, but the point is that NASCAR should find a way to run the races whenever they want, while keeping their entire fanbase happy. There's a million ways to make it work.
A dozen night races? Lets not get carried away.
Short tracks IMO are easily eliminated by the urbanites, are built for small crowds and much less revenue and tax bases. A couple are fine. But sinking a bunch of money into short tracks aren't a good investment.
 

kkfan91

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If NASCAR wants to run a dozen or so Cup races on a Saturday night every year, why don't the local short tracks pay attention to the schedule and adjust theirs accordingly? You figure they know their customer base and would happily move some of their races to a Friday night or a Sunday afternoon to help their own ticket sales so they aren't "competing" against a NASCAR race on a Saturday night.

Hell, NASCAR could even offer incentives for that. Say they pick 150 short tracks across the country, and give them each $500 to cater to their schedule. The tracks would gladly take that money and it only costs them $75k, which is pocket change for NASCAR and would easily be made up (and then some) in increased ticket sales. I'm making a wild assumption here, but I feel like most fans would rather attend a race at 7:00 on a Saturday than 2:30 on a Sunday.

Yes I'm just throwing around random numbers, and no I haven't though this through, but the point is that NASCAR should find a way to run the races whenever they want, while keeping their entire fanbase happy. There's a million ways to make it work.
If you follow enough local tracks on social media you'll eventually realize most of them have no idea how to run a successful business
 

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A dozen? Lets not get carried away. Short tracks are easily eliminated by the urbanites, are built for small crowds and much less revenue and tax bases. A couple are fine.

It doesn't have to be a dozen, but they should definitely have a lot more night races IMO.

I just wish NASCAR would make more of an effort to give their events a "special" feel and get creative with the schedule. If the Pocono doubleheader was a regular thing, I would be really intrigued to buy tickets and camp there for a weekend, and I don't even like Pocono. When MLB has their break in July and there's no sports going on, NASCAR should run a night race at Martinsville on a Wednesday. I could go on and on.

If you follow enough local tracks on social media you'll eventually realize most of them have no idea how to run a successful business

Sad, but true lol
 

Charlie Spencer

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You figure they know their customer base and would happily move some of their races to a Friday night or a Sunday afternoon to help their own ticket sales so they aren't "competing" against a NASCAR race on a Saturday night.
A lot of owner /drivers have to work on Fridays. They already lose money participating. They'd lose more by missing a day of work to get to the track and get set up.

Also, I can record that Cup race or otherwise catch it in delayed form. Those options aren't available for local action.
 

Charlie Spencer

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If you follow enough local tracks on social media you'll eventually realize most of them have no idea how to run a successful business
Many small businesses are started by well-intentioned but clueless people. That's why there's a 50% failure rate in the first year and 80% in the first five years.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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If you follow enough local tracks on social media you'll eventually realize most of them have no idea how to run a successful business

Many don't, but it's easy to say this from behind a keyboard.

Asphalt short tracks have an almost non-existent profit margin. The money that goes out the door vs. what comes in would astonish anyone if they actually knew the truth. And you have a lot of people who are in it for the money.

"Throw dirt on it" has become conventional wisdom because there's an enormous racer and fanbase on the dirt side that don't think any other discipline is racing. "Dirt's for racing, asphalt's for getting to the track!" Yet, for some reason, dirt tracks are closing at a much more accelerated rate than asphalt tracks. And throwing dirt on a track has been a death sentence for most of the tracks that try it.

Almost every track that's closed down recently has said the same thing: It's not the financial losses, it's how track owners and their staff are treated. You have to have thick skin to work in racing, and even then... people who have been doing it for years and years are sick of it and walking away. And those people aren't easily replaced.

Hell, there are a handful of cars that I know I'm going to have a bad day when I see them pull up.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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I went to the summer Richmond race a couple of years ago and it was the hottest I've ever been at a NASCAR race. Central Virginia summers are hot, humid, and miserable.

The summer is an ideal time for NASCAR to run Sunday night primetime races. The NFL hasn't started yet and Sunday Night Baseball is the only competition in that time slot.
This. Iam hoping the Amazon Summer Series on Prime when it gets signed (I’m being far fetched here) has some Sunday Night Races, it’s the perfect time to do it in Late June through early August, college football and NFL haven’t started yet and it a fills a void imo for that tv window. I also have always thought a Cup race the day after the MLB Star game would be a great success, there is absolutely nothing on that day.

I also hope the good folks at Richmond get a night summer race, holy moly the fans look Hot on tv! I dont miss roasting in the stands at Chicagoland the week after July 4th, some years were brutal you’d need the next day to recover. I could never figure out why the track had lights but had like only 4 night races scheduled.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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I know it doesn't, but it could.

Again, I'm just spitting out random ideas. NASCAR has the stroke to do what they want. And having a relationship with short tracks across the country would go a long way, IMO.

NASCAR has a much better than advertised relationship with short tracks.

It's just "cool" for short track racers to hate NASCAR. Because "Bubbles," or something.
 

Formerjackman

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I think the short track package needs to be fixed on these cars before we start giving notice to short tracks for one date and then rejoicing about it. I personally have zero desire to see another road course or street race for Cup, once the schedule skews towards those two types the inevitable fan turn on those will happen in a swift manner.
I agree 100% on fixing the short track package before we judge the short track attendance numbers too much. Why would people pay all that money to show up and watch lousy racing more than once or twice?
 
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