2025 schedule news/rumors

Formerjackman

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Many don't, but it's easy to say this from behind a keyboard.

Asphalt short tracks have an almost non-existent profit margin. The money that goes out the door vs. what comes in would astonish anyone if they actually knew the truth. And you have a lot of people who are in it for the money.

"Throw dirt on it" has become conventional wisdom because there's an enormous racer and fanbase on the dirt side that don't think any other discipline is racing. "Dirt's for racing, asphalt's for getting to the track!" Yet, for some reason, dirt tracks are closing at a much more accelerated rate than asphalt tracks. And throwing dirt on a track has been a death sentence for most of the tracks that try it.

Almost every track that's closed down recently has said the same thing: It's not the financial losses, it's how track owners and their staff are treated. You have to have thick skin to work in racing, and even then... people who have been doing it for years and years are sick of it and walking away. And those people aren't easily replaced.

Hell, there are a handful of cars that I know I'm going to have a bad day when I see them pull up.
In my area, the biggest problem is where the tracks are. The land becomes more valuable than the race track. I don't know how you fight that.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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In my area, the biggest problem is where the tracks are. The land becomes more valuable than the race track. I don't know how you fight that.

Even when the land is not valuable, operating a racetrack is not financially beneficial.

Some of these racetracks are losing over $200,000 a year.

Racers think the tracks make a ton of money on them and they really don't. Yeah, they might make about $40 per tire, but you can't even think of that as profit because it goes right back out the door with another tire order. Same with fuel, any money you make goes right back out because you get more.

Then there are all the expenses that go into operating the track: Purse (which usually takes up almost everything a track brings in), power (it costs $750 to flip the switch to turn a Musco lighting system on), Insurance (the prices you'll find on Google are way low compared to actual costs). Bringing in a tour race usually costs around $30,000. You've got to pay your race director, flagman, announcer, clean up crew, tire changer, pit steward, ticket office, etc.

The purse demands are also getting much greater. For instance, Late Model Stock Car races should pay a minimum of $1,000 to start and $5,000 to win - but racetracks can't afford to do that on a weekly basis. Nor is there any incentive to do so when these guys elect to run at a track that pays $750 to win and $75 to start on a weekly basis. Like, if a track with that kind of purse is getting 16-20 cars, and a track paying $5,000 to win and $1,000 to start is only getting 6 cars, why would the latter continue to do so?

If you go on Facebook and read comments, you'll find the only solution to all the problems tracks face is to increase the purse and create a touring series (which is a seperate, but not unrelated, issue).

349062913_253400410629059_5757920691202736075_n.jpg
 

MRM

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I went to the summer Richmond race a couple of years ago and it was the hottest I've ever been at a NASCAR race. Central Virginia summers are hot, humid, and miserable.

The summer is an ideal time for NASCAR to run Sunday night primetime races. The NFL hasn't started yet and Sunday Night Baseball is the only competition in that time slot.
I've been saying that for a couple of years.
 

Formerjackman

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Even when the land is not valuable, operating a racetrack is not financially beneficial.

Some of these racetracks are losing over $200,000 a year.

Racers think the tracks make a ton of money on them and they really don't. Yeah, they might make about $40 per tire, but you can't even think of that as profit because it goes right back out the door with another tire order. Same with fuel, any money you make goes right back out because you get more.

Then there are all the expenses that go into operating the track: Purse (which usually takes up almost everything a track brings in), power (it costs $750 to flip the switch to turn a Musco lighting system on), Insurance (the prices you'll find on Google are way low compared to actual costs). Bringing in a tour race usually costs around $30,000. You've got to pay your race director, flagman, announcer, clean up crew, tire changer, pit steward, ticket office, etc.

The purse demands are also getting much greater. For instance, Late Model Stock Car races should pay a minimum of $1,000 to start and $5,000 to win - but racetracks can't afford to do that on a weekly basis. Nor is there any incentive to do so when these guys elect to run at a track that pays $750 to win and $75 to start on a weekly basis. Like, if a track with that kind of purse is getting 16-20 cars, and a track paying $5,000 to win and $1,000 to start is only getting 6 cars, why would the latter continue to do so?

If you go on Facebook and read comments, you'll find the only solution to all the problems tracks face is to increase the purse and create a touring series (which is a seperate, but not unrelated, issue).

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Well, that was my point. At BEST, most of these tracks are very marginally profitable to break even. That makes it very attractive to just throw in the towel and sell to the latest strip mall developer. Locally, we have lost one track due to just that. We lost another due to various financial issues and complaints about noise. The major local track was felled by a combination of an out of state owner who died, leaving the property to an estate who was no longer interested in leasing it out, and the fact that is directly adjacent to a major airport and Air National Guard base that has the right to claim the property at any time, discouraging new owners, promoters who want to lease the property, and sorely needed investment in the race track facilities.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Well, that was my point. At BEST, most of these tracks are very marginally profitable to break even. That makes it very attractive to just throw in the towel and sell to the latest strip mall developer. Locally, we have lost one track due to just that. We lost another due to various financial issues and complaints about noise. The major local track was felled by a combination of an out of state owner who died, leaving the property to an estate who was no longer interested in leasing it out, and the fact that is directly adjacent to a major airport and Air National Guard base that has the right to claim the property at any time, discouraging new owners, promoters who want to lease the property, and sorely needed investment in the race track facilities.

A lot of track owners who truly love racing will deal with the financial losses. Lately, it's social media that compounds all that. Every track that shuts down says the same thing.

It's so weird to me how racers, as a collective, have become even less grateful post-COVID. Like, many of these people didn't get to race for nearly two years, or had to travel hours to race. Then when the tracks open, they just got so much worse.

It's frustrating when a driver finishes fourth in a race and gets on Facebook, trashmouths the track for days, tells their friends and fans not to go to that ****hole, and then they show up the next week. That racer may have cost the owner/promoter hundreds of dollars and they're right back there the following week. Seriously, there are drivers who will organize a boycott of a racetrack, get several other drivers to not come, and then they show up the next week and win the race.

Most of your racetrack employees are weekend warriors. They have jobs during the week and they gave up a day off to come work at the track (which is already hard work), and they get screamed at and motherf***er'd all day and night. I can't even describe how much worse this has gotten the past few years.

The social media stuff is exhausting. You spend 18 hours at the track in the hot ass 125° sun just to get home and people are off and running. Almost any post you make, you just know the pitchforks and torches are going to come out. A lot of times, it's straight up dumb stuff too.
 

FLRacingFan

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Doesn’t sound very likely that the Coliseum will return in 2025, but they’re looking at moving the Clash around to keep it fresh and it could be in Mexico City or Guadalajara as soon as next year. Would be a nice way to try to pull off an international event, and builds off of incorporating the Mexico Series this year.

 

Jorge De Guzman

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Doesn’t sound very likely that the Coliseum will return in 2025, but they’re looking at moving the Clash around to keep it fresh and it could be in Mexico City or Guadalajara as soon as next year. Would be a nice way to try to pull off an international event, and builds off of incorporating the Mexico Series this year.


a Cup race at Estadio Azteca would be insane.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Doesn’t sound very likely that the Coliseum will return in 2025, but they’re looking at moving the Clash around to keep it fresh and it could be in Mexico City or Guadalajara as soon as next year. Would be a nice way to try to pull off an international event, and builds off of incorporating the Mexico Series this year.



I'd love for the Clash to move to different stadiums. Sadly, I think it'll end up back in Daytona sooner or later. The fanbase is hellbent on it, even though it was a horrible ****** race.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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^The 2nd Daytona race should run the roval.

I'm for a race on the Daytona Road Course, but I don't see the 400 going away. If anything, I see the 400 moving back to July - especially if Daytona ends up being a temporary football stadium in from August to January.
 

Charlie Spencer

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I'm for a race on the Daytona Road Course, but I don't see the 400 going away. If anything, I see the 400 moving back to July - especially if Daytona ends up being a temporary football stadium in from August to January.
Eh, just move the Jags to England and get it over with. Seems like they're there half the time anyway.
 

FLRacingFan

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I'd love for the Clash to move to different stadiums. Sadly, I think it'll end up back in Daytona sooner or later. The fanbase is hellbent on it, even though it was a horrible ****** race.
Yeah, I just don’t think people remember how bad it was the final few years it ran on the oval. That race where Jones won with a car that looked fresh off a 33rd-place finish at Martinsville was just terrible. And I doubt these teams want to go back to tearing up Next Gen cars for no reason.
 

MRM

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I'd love for the Clash to move to different stadiums. Sadly, I think it'll end up back in Daytona sooner or later. The fanbase is hellbent on it, even though it was a horrible ****** race.
The Clash was better when it had less cars and less laps. The unrestricted cars with 12 or so cars for 20 laps was some intense racing.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Yeah, I just don’t think people remember how bad it was the final few years it ran on the oval. That race where Jones won with a car that looked fresh off a 33rd-place finish at Martinsville was just terrible. And I doubt these teams want to go back to tearing up Next Gen cars for no reason.

It moved for a reason.
 

Charlie Spencer

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We have people waxing nostalgic about Fontana, which the fanbase hated until the last couple of years. The fastest way to make something popular among NASCAR fans is to take it away.
The racing at Fontana improved greatly with the new car. That's why opinions changed over the last two years, not the threat of removal.
 

racingfan7

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The Busch Clash used to be only 10-20 cars and a short race. Make it a 40 lap race with pole winners & former Clash winners only.

No wonder the race got bad when you have 21-30 cars. It was always supposed to be a short exhibition race, that during the boom of NASCAR, made it commercial.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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We have people waxing nostalgic about Fontana, which the fanbase hated until the last couple of years. The fastest way to make something popular among NASCAR fans is to take it away.

We're two years away from fans wanting two races at Texas and wanting North Wilkesboro to go away.
 

The Nature Boy

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The racing at Fontana improved greatly with the new car. That's why opinions changed over the last two years, not the threat of removal.

I would argue that the asphalt wearing in played a large role in the racing improving. Once Fontana got repaved, it would've gone back to being a snore. That track sucking spanned multiple generations of cars and people were hating that place back when the asphalt was fresh.
 

JimmyJ4UK

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NASCAR should give the Daytona roval a chance with the new car. Then they can justify going back to the oval for the Charlotte fall race.
 

Spotter22

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If NASCAR wants to run a dozen or so Cup races on a Saturday night every year, why don't the local short tracks pay attention to the schedule and adjust theirs accordingly? You figure they know their customer base and would happily move some of their races to a Friday night or a Sunday afternoon to help their own ticket sales so they aren't "competing" against a NASCAR race on a Saturday night.

Hell, NASCAR could even offer incentives for that. Say they pick 150 short tracks across the country, and give them each $500 to cater to their schedule. The tracks would gladly take that money and it only costs them $75k, which is pocket change for NASCAR and would easily be made up (and then some) in increased ticket sales. I'm making a wild assumption here, but I feel like most fans would rather attend a race at 7:00 on a Saturday than 2:30 on a Sunday.

Yes I'm just throwing around random numbers, and no I haven't though this through, but the point is that NASCAR should find a way to run the races whenever they want, while keeping their entire fanbase happy. There's a million ways to make it work.
2 Sweet, help me out here. Are you saying NASCAR would pay 150 tracks $500 not to run the night of a scheduled Cup race? How is that an incentive for the track? 1 set of tires that a team purchases is an average of $600, 1 team. If you have 20 teams show up for a late model race in tires alone thats $12,000 I know thats not all profit because the track has to buy the tires "retail" around $100ea so they make $4000 clear. Then you have car entry fees,$100 per car so thats $2000 Crew member entry fees, Average 4 members per team at $25 per is another $2000. Most tracks require you to buy their gas. 5 gallons minimum so thats $800 for 20 teams etc..... All of that is for just 1 class , $8,800.
 

racingfan7

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NASCAR should give the Daytona roval a chance with the new car. Then they can justify going back to the oval for the Charlotte fall race.

I want to like the Daytona RC, but they insist on having that NASCAR chicane instead of carrying speed into the infield turn 1 like any other racing series at Daytona RC.
 

FLRacingFan

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I want to like the Daytona RC, but they insist on having that NASCAR chicane instead of carrying speed into the infield turn 1 like any other racing series at Daytona RC.
With the Next Gen braking package they might be able to run the normal configuration, plus the cars have more drag and less power compared to when they last raced there. Wouldn’t be carrying as much speed through the tri-oval.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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I want to see the Daytona Roval too but not at the expense of Daytona 2 race.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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I would argue that the asphalt wearing in played a large role in the racing improving. Once Fontana got repaved, it would've gone back to being a snore. That track sucking spanned multiple generations of cars and people were hating that place back when the asphalt was fresh.
Gosh it must have been me but ive always thought Fontana raced well. Multiple grooves, guys were running high there before it was fashionable. I always thought it was a cool track
 

FLRacingFan

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Gosh it must have been me but ive always thought Fontana raced well. Multiple grooves, guys were running high there before it was fashionable. I always thought it was a cool track
It’s been pretty good for at least a decade, I’d say when they got rid of the second race and cut the first one to 400 miles it really upped the ante. There was that awesome Jimmie/Harvick battle for the win in 2011 and then the wild 2013/2014 finishes that really got people to start to rave about it.
 

hmmm298

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It’s been pretty good for at least a decade, I’d say when they got rid of the second race and cut the first one to 400 miles it really upped the ante. There was that awesome Jimmie/Harvick battle for the win in 2011 and then the wild 2013/2014 finishes that really got people to start to rave about it.
I can also see his point about the high line. Honestly back when Fontana started the high line was rarely used, and it very easily could have seemed kind of "boring" etc seeing them try.
 

Revman

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Doesn’t sound very likely that the Coliseum will return in 2025, but they’re looking at moving the Clash around to keep it fresh and it could be in Mexico City or Guadalajara as soon as next year. Would be a nice way to try to pull off an international event, and builds off of incorporating the Mexico Series this year.


Let's demolish a track in Cali....and then move the Clash to Mexico. I have a problem with this. **** me.
 

Ernie_Irvan#4

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We have people waxing nostalgic about Fontana, which the fanbase hated until the last couple of years. The fastest way to make something popular among NASCAR fans is to take it away.
Nostalgia is hella of drug lol I remember when everyone had a meltdown when NASCAR took the Southern 500 date away from Darlington and gave it to Fontana in 2004. Yes, the racing did improved with the old surface, but it’s really weird to see people act like this track was always amazing. I always thought it was a “low budget” Michigan.
 
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