23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

[aunty dive]

What would NASCAR do with 4 charters?

Other than spending $10 or 20 Million or so to prove a conflict of interest?

 

[StandOnIt]

I may be reading it wrong but it looks like 23XI and Front Row still have possession of the charters but they can't use them?

 

[Charlie Spencer]

What would NASCAR do with 4 charters?

Other than spending $10 or 20 Million or so to prove a conflict of interest?

Great question but that's been a point of contention since the beginning of negotiations two years ago.

 

[StandOnIt]

 

[StandOnIt]

 

[wi_racefan]

These guys might have shot themselves in the foot by saying they plan on competing next year even if they have to do it as an open car

 

[wi_racefan]

Other thing I find interesting is that they say 32 charters. One would have to wonder how long SHR is going to sit around on these charters before someone else gets a good deal on them?

 

[AndyMarquisLive]

Other thing I find interesting is that they say 32 charters. One would have to wonder how long SHR is going to sit around on these charters before someone else gets a good deal on them?

I wonder if the Haas Factory Team decides to field more than one Cup car now.

 

[StandOnIt]

Nascar turned up the heat. That is the first time Nascar has said publicly that those two teams are charterless. Pretty sure that is going to court.

 

[StandOnIt]

Nascar blocked SHR's sale of their charters. I wonder if Nascar bought them back, or if SHR still has them?

 

[The Nature Boy]

These guys might have shot themselves in the foot by saying they plan on competing next year even if they have to do it as an open car

They kind of had to say something, they have sponsor commitments that have to be honored.

 

[aunty dive]

There’s obviously a lot hinging on the court’s ruling on the pending injunction application.

Besides the millions of dollars.

 

[AndyMarquisLive]

Nascar blocked SHR's sale of their charters. I wonder if Nascar bought them back, or if SHR still has them?

In theory, Haas could just field Front Row cars under his charters.

If NASCAR's going to increase the winnings for the chartered teams since there are only 32 charters now, nothing is stopping the teams from donating that money to 23XI and Front Row for their lawsuit against NASCAR either.

 

[StandOnIt]

In theory, Haas could just field Front Row cars under his charters.

If NASCAR's going to increase the winnings for the chartered teams since there are only 32 charters now, nothing is stopping the teams from donating that money to 23XI and Front Row for their lawsuit against NASCAR either.

That's pretty impossible now that Nascar announced that there is only a 32 charter field now. Haas has signed the agreement or they wouldn't have charters also. Nascar has to approve the sale and use of the charters. 23XI and Front Row aren't going to be getting full share prize money unless they can get their charters back.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

These guys might have shot themselves in the foot by saying they plan on competing next year even if they have to do it as an open car

If the field size remains at 40, they'll be fine. There will eight open slots instead of four. Few races had full 40-car fields.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

In theory, Haas could just field Front Row cars under his charters.

Or lease the charters for the season. Although now that I've typed that, I suspect leasing a charter requires signing the sacred contract.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

nothing is stopping the teams from donating that money to 23XI and Front Row for their lawsuit against NASCAR either.

You're killing me, man!

 

[StandOnIt]

If the field size remains at 40, they'll be fine. There will eight open slots instead of four. Few races had full 40-car fields.

That is a big "if" with the field size remaining at 40 when the charters are reduced to 32

Go fund me??

 

[Charlie Spencer]

That is a big "if" with the field size remaining at 40 when the charters are reduced to 32

There are people still frosted over reducing the field from 43 to 40, and over the charters having the effect of often resulting in a 36-car field. 32 will really torque their Underoos. Heck, IndyCar routinely starts 27. The Rolex will be pushing 60 and IMSA is worried about having enough pit spaces.

 

[StandOnIt]

There are people still frosted over reducing the field form 43 to 40, and over the charters having the effect of often resulting in a 36-car field. 32 will really torque their Underoos. Heck, IndyCar routinely starts 27. The Rolex will be pushing 60 and IMSA is worried about having enough pit spaces.

Some people look for every little excuse to frost themselves in Nascar world. There should be some juicy deathbedding now that Nascar is going broke and only offering 32 charters.

 

[AndyMarquisLive]

That's pretty impossible now that Nascar announced that there is only a 32 charter field now. Haas has signed the agreement or they wouldn't have charters also. Nascar has to approve the sale and use of the charters. 23XI and Front Row aren't going to be getting full share prize money unless they can get their charters back.

Are you deliberately being obtuse or can you just not help it?

 

[AndyMarquisLive]

You're killing me, man!

The other teams are outright saying they signed the charter agreement because they had a gun held to their head.

It's absolutely on the table that they take additional revenue they get and donate it to legal fees. 23XI is probably going to win this lawsuit.

 

[KTMLew01]

Are you deliberately being obtuse or can you just not help it?

I tend to believe it's both.

 

[StandOnIt]

I tend to believe it's both.

Dude, I wouldn't want to get into a who is the craziest contest with ya.

 

[StandOnIt]

The other teams are outright saying they signed the charter agreement because they had a gun held to their head.

It's absolutely on the table that they take additional revenue they get and donate it to legal fees. 23XI is probably going to win this lawsuit.

Tell ya what sparky, you can go on down the road with that and see how far it gets ya. You seem to hear what you want to hear. Myself, I see all of the teams have signed on the dotted line except 2. Nobody held a gun to their head. Those that signed have seven years to find another path for their lives if they don't like it.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

The other teams are outright saying they signed the charter agreement because they had a gun held to their head.

It's absolutely on the table that they take additional revenue they get and donate it to legal fees. 23XI is probably going to win this lawsuit.

And they signed the agreement to get the money, not to turn it over to someone else. I don't see them dropping an anchor on 23FR but I don't see them tossing a life saver either.

 

[wi_racefan]

They kind of had to say something, they have sponsor commitments that have to be honored.

But it makes the financial hardship argument impossible considering they say they'd compete for less than what was offered

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[StandOnIt]

 

[Charlie Spencer]

"...as well as Open teams who can compete to win the increased prize money and other special awards."

As open teams, I =assume= 23FR would be as eligible for the "increased prize money and other special awards" as any other open team.

 

[KTMLew01]

Dude, I wouldn't want to get into a who is the craziest contest with ya.

LMAO! Well played my man. Well played!

 

[Reck]

NASCAR with a power move here and at the same time feeding the teams that signed happy by relocating money that would otherwise be for the teams that didn't sign the charter contract.

Mike's team could endured running as a free lancer in 2025 and finish out the season but Front Row might be screwed if they have to do this indefinitely.

This is great to watch unfold. I need this to head to trial.

 

[wi_racefan]

I still think at some point the ROI on buying a charter isn't worth it. But without seeing the pay outs we'd never know.

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[KTMLew01]

I still think at some point the ROI on buying a charter isn't worth it. But without seeing the pay outs we'd never know.

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Some keep forgetting, or just don't believe, the original idea of charters was so an owner had something of value if they decided to walk away. Old race cars aren't worth much. Tooling wears out. Parts become obsolete. I suppose maybe we need to define a race team? What exactly do you have if the owner comes in on a Monday, calls shop meeting, we done. Today. You have until 5PM to remove your stuff.

Ok? Now what is the "business" worth? Charter is worth XXXXXXX. So that's something. Used to be next to nothing. Auction time. Pennies on the dollar. What all those X's total up to is/will change. Maybe NASCAR's goal IS to make them fairly worthless. Only value being a guaranteed start. Be quite some time before this all shakes out.

I'll be little surprised if NASCAR is still a thing 10 years from now. Definitely won't be using combustion engines. Boomers are dying off. NASCAR is mainly a boomer thing. Once they gone, good 50% of the audience is gone.