My feeling is that the teams were well aware that this could happen but didn’t think it would after Judge Jethro Bodine ruled in their favor in district court. Once it got into the hands of the circuit court they undid Judge Jethro’s mistakes. There is risk in everything & for now at least it has bitten the plaintiffs. I read that if NASCAR wanted to redistribute the charters today that they could. I’m glad people much smarter than I are handling this.
23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement
- Thread starter Blaze
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My feeling is that the teams were well aware that this could happen but didn’t think it would after Judge Jethro Bodine ruled in their favor in district court. Once it got into the hands of the circuit court they undid Judge Jethro’s mistakes. There is risk in everything & for now at least it has bitten the plaintiffs. I read that if NASCAR wanted to redistribute the charters today that they could. I’m glad people much smarter than I are handling this.
It seems a distinct possibility that it was always Polk/MJ’s plan to attempt to extract more from NASCAR.
IDK how the bean counters looked at things but it’s always been clear that NASCAR owns the charters.
Then why, when a team buys a charter, does the money go to the previous owner and not to NASCAR?
NASCAR seems to have dug their heels in on maintaining charter ownership. MJ seems to have his heels in on charter ownership. The irresistible force versus the immovable object? It sounds like MJ will either win big time or if he doesn’t someone is going to buy the 2311 Taj Mahal for a quite a good price!
My understanding has always been that NASCAR allows the teams to do whatever they wish with the charters assigned to them for the length of the broadcast deal & when it expires they have to sign a new deal. I can’t recall NASCAR saying that the charters were property of the teams at anytime. Of course I can’t recall what I had for breakfast today either!
So, MJ’s hero worshiper Judge Bell denies temporary restraining order (TRO) for the next 2 races, UNTIL he can fully render a judgement. Did this because NASCAR assured they will not execute any sale or action on the charters re is no chance the now open teams will not fail to make the field at Dover or Indianapolis. In either case they COULD SUFFER irreparable harm per the dip crap judicial lightweight. I suppose he needs a couple of weeks to try and find some means of giving Jordan his request without getting his decisions body slammed yet again by every judge of the circuit court.
Story link below:
www.foxsports.com
Story link below:
Judge denies 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports' request to race with charters | FOX Sports
A federal judge has denied a request from 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports to race with charters while battling NASCAR in court
www.foxsports.com
The same reason a car dealer will pay you to take over responsibility your high valued leased car. Once again, NASCAR never said the charters were owned by the teams…and said they could go away someday. The charter gives a team the right to participate in NASCAR’s contract terms for a full racing season, one that mutually benefits those teams and NASCAR. That opportunity has a market value. That value is determined by sellers and buyers. If 23XI and Front Row paid far too much for their new charters (they did), it was a risk they took…not NASCAR’s responsibility to make them whole by changing the contract terms.
Jordan, Hamcrap and Jenkins assumed they’d own these outright, and could count them as corporate assets on their balance sheets. That is a BIG asset based upon their purchase amount…if they are real. If they are not (NASCAR controls the rights, teams don’t own them like a sports franchise), their balance sheets are suddenly depleted by MANY MILLIONS OF $$. Banks don’t like that. Creditors don’t like that.
Now you know why they are bringing these lawsuits…trying to find any way to alter the contracts AND outright own these charters.
Now you know why they are bringing these lawsuits…trying to find any way to alter the contracts AND outright own these charters.
Lets not forget that that bunch also wants to race the car that Nascar spent millions on developing in money and time to race anywhere they chose on any track including Nascar's tracks in direct competition with Nascar.
hmmm298
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Reddick back to the 8 by Indy as KB retires. Irreparable harm.So, MJ’s hero worshiper Judge Bell denies temporary restraining order (TRO) for the next 2 races, UNTIL he can fully render a judgement. Did this because NASCAR assured they will not execute any sale or action on the charters re is no chance the now open teams will not fail to make the field at Dover or Indianapolis. In either case they COULD SUFFER irreparable harm per the dip crap judicial lightweight. I suppose he needs a couple of weeks to try and find some means of giving Jordan his request without getting his decisions body slammed yet again by every judge of the circuit court.
Story link below:
Judge denies 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports' request to race with charters | FOX Sports
A federal judge has denied a request from 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports to race with charters while battling NASCAR in court
Okay, I've never leased a car (or anything else), and every ad I've seen says the driver has to pay the dealer to keep the car at the end of the lease. I'm not clear on what you're saying about the dealer paying the driver to 'take over responsibility'.
Yep. What I don't get is how a team can sell an opportunity that doesn't belong to them, or how the buyer can lose it without compensation. In Front Row's case, they never paid anything for their charters in the first place. NASCAR gaveth, so I can understand NASCAR takething away.
I'm not trying to make any points here, pro or con for either side. I'm asking questions because I flat-out don't understand how this three-way transaction works. It appears the possibility will always exist that a buyer can get screwed.
On that we completely agree, and I've said all along this is 100% about charter ownership, and has nothing to do with racing on other tracks or in other series or any of the other stated goals of the monopoly lawsuit.
Harm to 23XI or to Reddick's career?Reddick back to the 8 by Indy as KB retires. Irreparable harm.
I understand the confusion. It really is about the value of things. Remember after Covid when the supply of new cars was so low, used car prices skyrocketed? We had a 2 year old Honda Pilot under lease, in mint condition. I was retiring and wanted to reduce autos. Because of the value of that rented asset, we not only were relinquished from all future payment obligations, they also paid us several thousand dollars to aquire it.
The Charters were formed and originally conferred without any payment to NASCAR. From the beginning they represented a form of contractural leasehold between the team and NASCAR. Take land as an example. In leasehold property, the lessee (tenant) obtains the right to possess and use the property for a specific period, but does not own the land itself. The landowner (lessor) retains ownership and can reclaim the property at the end of the lease term. Leasehold agreements define the rights and responsibilities of both parties, including the payment of leasing fees. Charters were “sold” by teams to other team owners, which was really just a transfer of rights to the benefits of the Charter system and an agreement to NASCAR’s obligations.
Thanks. I think this is key to what's been eluding me.
Revman
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Reddick was very terse with Moody this week. Interesting. I do not think that he will jeopardize his value for the sake of 23XI proving their point. The stakes are high, the pressure is rising. Interesting stuff. Denny is playing high stakes chicken here. Someone get some popcorn for The Felon. I bet he is enjoying the show.Reddick back to the 8 by Indy as KB retires. Irreparable harm.
Reddick is already looking, hes a jumper. If it is out there he's gone.
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We dont know how his contract is written. Its very possible his pay is based on team revenue. If that's the case he just took a massive pay cut being an open car.
What has been said by 23XI is that if teams aren't chartered, drivers aren't under contract, apparently sponsors aren't either to hear them tell it. Does that mean a cut in pay? Who knows, it could be.
Hikaru Kitsune
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Should have put some money into SRX to keep it alive, Denny.
Remember when people were posting that MJ brought such global attention to the sport that if he wanted more charters and none were available, that NASCAR would magically create more just for him? Check back in the posts numbered in the high 700s and low 800s.
Oh, and we passed Hallie Deegan a couple of days ago. ***MISSION ACCOMPLISHED***
Oh, and we passed Hallie Deegan a couple of days ago. ***MISSION ACCOMPLISHED***
Can't say I ever thought that.
Denny, Denny, Denny. Keep your mouth shut and refer all questions to your lawyers.
That we'd pass Deegan?
Oh yes…just stay tuned….they’ve got all the goods on mean ol’ evil NASCAR…
. ALL WILL BE EXPOSED DECEMBER 1ST! That works both ways Hamdump. We may learn a lot more about Jordan’s henchman behind this scheme, and what HE was concocting that makes a difference in your future.
Denny is in over his head.
Been podcasting too long. Let the mouthpieces do what you're paying them for.
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I think we should wait until we learn something about what’s in the discovery materials before we get too far out over our skis.Oh yes…just stay tuned….they’ve got all the goods on mean ol’ evil NASCAR…
ALL WILL BE EXPOSED DECEMBER 1ST! That works both ways Hamdump. We may learn a lot more about Jordan’s henchman behind this scheme, and what HE was concocting that makes a difference in your future.
Denny is in over his head.
They better keep an eye out for Reddick. 
Where could he go before the end of the year?They better keep an eye out for Reddick.
Watch him. He's a hopper. 
I think I might of been one person that questioned how valuable MJ was to NASCAR & was quickly & forcefully rebuked. Someone even told me I didn’t like MJ which was sheer stupidity!!! At that point I decided my best play was to yield to others as saying anything negative about MJ was not well received.
On other social media MJ is not thought of very well & the participants hope he’s run out of town on a rail. Ideally you’d like to have MJ stay affiliated with NASCAR but at what cost? It’s been reported that NASCAR has dropped over a million bucks in defending itself against MJ/Polk. They could easily go on to win the case but they’re going to need a fan like the district court judge to help things along.
Oh yes…just stay tuned….they’ve got all the goods on mean ol’ evil NASCAR…
ALL WILL BE EXPOSED DECEMBER 1ST! That works both ways Hamdump. We may learn a lot more about Jordan’s henchman behind this scheme, and what HE was concocting that makes a difference in your future.
Denny is in over his head.
Someone needs to duct tape Denny’s mouth. No one has ever gone broke estimating Denny’s intelligence but he’s a good driver.
wi_racefan
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https://www.jayski.com/2025/07/21/n...l_AwhJjC3756oNMSvQ_aem_KFHMCyg63ULjYEk_M3rzdw
So much for claiming harm
So much for claiming harm
Good idea to clarify these rules, thereby preventing any inadvertent circumstance that could impact a trigger happy district judge to claim harm. Fact is few open team even face such risks given the typical number of entries and available racing slots.