If Catherine Legge can find money to buy an Xfinity ride at Rockingham, 23XI can buy a Cup seat from a part-time bottom feeder.
23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement
- Thread starter Blaze
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I offer proof of nothing but it seems a lot more fans are supporting NASCAR than they were at the beginning. Just the fact that a good deal of fans seem to hate NASCAR (I know it makes no sense) automatically gave the teams built in supporters. After reading X & other commenters I was surprised at how many claim to be mad at MJ for not signing “and dragging this out.” I can’t think of anything that has transpired so far from the start of this that would change any opinions.
For the record I would like NASCAR to prevail as I’m normally am oriented toward the company not the employees/contractors. I respect those that want the team owners to win as none of this is personal & it won’t change my viewing habits or my love of racing.
For the record I would like NASCAR to prevail as I’m normally am oriented toward the company not the employees/contractors. I respect those that want the team owners to win as none of this is personal & it won’t change my viewing habits or my love of racing.
I don't think that is the point. Front Row would be more apt to suffer and have problems with personnel than 23XI I would guess. Could Front Row break away and negotiate with Nascar? I think that is entirely possible.
I think Hamcrap said relative to 23XI that Jordan assured their drivers they would make them whole should they lose the charters benefits this season. Drivers could break from their contracts if charters are required, but as others said, doubtful they would UNLESS approached by another team who wanted to lock them in to a deal for next year. THAT is the danger zone these teams have crossed into. Front Row status on their drivers less certain as nothing has been communicated publicly to my knowledge.
Could FRM decide to give up and try to settle with NASCAR? Maybe, but both those teams are wanting changes to the charter agreement, which is something NASCAR will not do. Why should they with all other teams under contract?
Could FRM decide to give up and try to settle with NASCAR? Maybe, but both those teams are wanting changes to the charter agreement, which is something NASCAR will not do. Why should they with all other teams under contract?
And that's why there's a lawsuit.
Formerjackman
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In the Bill France Jr era I would have sided with NASCAR 90% of the time. My opinion of NASCAR management since then is SO LOW that I would LOVE to see them have their ass handed to them in this lawsuit, but I don't think that's going to happen. Maybe the owners will do a better job of not letting themselves get painted into a corner next time, and being forced to sign an agreement none of them seem to like. Keep in mind that I say this as someone who was never in favor of the charters in the first place, and it is my opinion that if NASCAR management wasn't so clueless, they probably WOULDN'T exist.
There's a difference between supporting either side, and thinking that side will win.
DIDIT
Old School Fan
I think over time as we learn more about the court case fans are seeing how ridiculous 23XI's position is.
I think 23XI needs to tie a rope around Reddick's ankle. He has already shown he will hop at the word Frog!
Let's tie up the courts some more.
Hikaru Kitsune
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Get the Failure Trombones ready for Hambone yet again.
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Anti-trust arguments are yet to be heard and won’t be until the actual trial starts.
I rather doubt that the 2 legal teams have shown all their cards at this point.
I rather doubt that the 2 legal teams have shown all their cards at this point.
I'd have been surprised if they didn't file again. No lawyer takes 'No.' for an answer in the 21st century American legal system. If the full panel had ruled for 23FRM, NASCAR would have appealed again.
Let's not let this expensive charter sideshow have us lose track of the main antitrust suit.
Yep, Jordan…more money than sense. He was a failure as an owner of the Hornets, and determined to leave a similar mark on racing.
We'll see if 23XI and Front Row are both around come the December trial. I would imagine neither team budgeted for losing their charter mid-season with 2 weeks notice after the original verdict said they were good but who knows.
The sad truth is that I bet a lot of people on both sides would like to handshake this thing out and have things return to normal. Maybe not the top brass but certainly a lot of the team employees.
The sad truth is that I bet a lot of people on both sides would like to handshake this thing out and have things return to normal. Maybe not the top brass but certainly a lot of the team employees.
wi_racefan
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I think this has become a competition to see who can spend more money. What happened to we dont care, we can run without a charter?
It's turned to poor me boo hoo. It's been a money grab from the start. They tried to take over the series, still trying to take over the series.
So Kessler gets beaten, now files a slightly different request using adjusted phrasing claiming NASCAR could resell the charters, potentially locking the teams out for good. They file it back with the district court. Is it the same “good buddy” judge in western NC who made very broad rulings previously, only for those to be body slammed by the partial then full circuit court judges? Frankly ol’ good buddy judge yuck yuck should be embarrassed his previous ruling was found to be so wrong relative to the law.
Now, this claim could result in the court forcing NASCAR to hold these Charters in a suspended status until the antitrust case is completed, or the court may ultimately determine it doesn’t matter since the antitrust lawsuit is focused on multiple claims over and above these elements of NASCAR’s business model (and the court already ruled the teams are not allowed to hold this season).
Now, this claim could result in the court forcing NASCAR to hold these Charters in a suspended status until the antitrust case is completed, or the court may ultimately determine it doesn’t matter since the antitrust lawsuit is focused on multiple claims over and above these elements of NASCAR’s business model (and the court already ruled the teams are not allowed to hold this season).
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The court isn’t going to give NASCAR the ok to do whatever they want with those 6 charters until all the anti-trust legal issues are finally resolved.
Common sense.
Common sense.
Yeah I would say the chances of the court reversing their decision, and the decision that the full panel didn't want to hear the charter appeal makes it a pretty sure bet the teams aren't going to get their charters restored and will continue as unchartered teams. The cake and eating it too clause.
I could agree that NASCAR may have to hold off on any action related to reconstituting charters now denied to the teams until after a case decision or a settlement is done. However, that should NOT alter the current prevailing judgement of the circuit court denying these teams benefits of a charter system only given to those who signed the contract. NASCAR could argue that freezing these charters is an infringement on their ability to do business, since the merits or lack thereof from the team’s antitrust lawsuit cannot effectively suspend active business practice per existing law and previous judgements.
Sure enough, per NBC Sports, they’ve got their “good buddy” judge hearing their plea. “ District Court Judge Kenneth D. Bell has ordered NASCAR to deliver its response to the court by 5 p.m. ET Wednesday.”
This is the same idiot that made some outlandish rulings during the previous hearing, then used faulty legal interpretation to gin up his idol MJ and rule against NASCAR. Let’s see if he really doesn’t care how many times a full 7 judge panel rules unanimously against his wreckless stupidity. Should he rule NASCAR must keep the suing teams receiving Charter benefits the remainder of the year (massive overreach per circuit court’s ruling), watch how fast this gets appealed.
wi_racefan
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That's odd because I thought they had to keep the money in escrow in case it was needed to pay them out after the lawsuit
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6 charter payment portions for 20 races, as ordered by the court, with no requirement to put any of it in escrow.
That’s a lot of scratch. They’ll be fighting this one for a while.
That’s a lot of scratch. They’ll be fighting this one for a while.
The teams will ask for an injunction regarding any financial payback until the primary monopoly case is settled. If I can figure that out, their lawyers probably have the paperwork nearly finished.
Apparently I'm the only one interested in how 23XI is out the money it paid for its first two charters that have now evaporated. I don't see how this could be seen favorably by others interested in getting into the sport. Kelley and Dale look smarter with each lawyer statement and press release.
Not to sound like a smartass but the answer for new team owners to this predicament is "don't sue the sport"
KTMLew01
Team Owner
Was my understanding too.
But if they hadn't sued, if they just didn't sign the new contract, they'd still be out the money with no mechanism for compensation. I don't get how this 'asset' just disappears. Was it on the teams' books as an asset? If not, how was the purchase expenditure recorded? How is its loss written off?
Nonsense. They could have sold their charters. The Charter RWR has was agreed to sell for a reported 45 million.
Could they, with three SHR charters also on the market? It doesn't seem like there's an unlimited market for charters. If the contract is about to expire and a team can't find a buyer, is it up the creek?
Kelley said they (charters) are not tangible assets because they are not permanent (they could be taken away at any time by Nascar), and that is why JRM has not bought charters. She said they would not have a problem getting the money for charters.
I wonder why they sign contracts to keep them for 7 years then?
Then they could pull the rug out from underneath of them after seven years? Would you buy something that could be taken away from you at any point? SMH