23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Charlie Spencer said:
I thought almost everyone here had agreed all along there would be a settlement. I've understood the biggest point of contention was what 23FRM was trying to gain.
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I think they were trying to gain a bigger piece of the TV money pie. As I said from the start, a lawsuit is a reckless way to do that. If the courts agree that NASCAR IS an illegal monopoly then we could end up with a CART/IRL type split.
 
wi_racefan said:
It seems like a win for nascar, but in reality I dont think it means much. They'll wait 14 days, file an appeal and the whole charade will continue........
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Or they'll be a settlement. Neither organization can afford to run as non-charter teams because of the money NASCAR won't have to hand over to them.
 
3 members of the 7 judge appeal court made this ruling … so we know for sure that at least 2 of them ruled for NASCAR, possibly all 3.

Kessler has to convince 4 of the 5 (or 4) remaining members of the court to rule in the plaintiff’s favour.

He has his work cut out for him.
 
Naitch said:
I think they were trying to gain a bigger piece of the TV money pie. As I said from the start, a lawsuit is a reckless way to do that. If the courts agree that NASCAR IS an illegal monopoly then we could end up with a CART/IRL type split.
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I've said they're after all teams owning the charters outright.
 
It is HIGHLY unlikely that the full 7 judge panel would somehow overrule their 3 distinguished colleagues on this ruling. The real issue is how ridiculous the first judge’s decisions were. It really didn’t align with business case law at all on the most basic level.

So will Kessler and his clients seek a settlement prior to filing a request for full panel hearing? They might. However, NASCAR has been very clear to them and in court testimony; they will not negotiate nor alter the terms of the Charter agreement currently in place for all other Chartered teams. Frankly, I wish these two owners would just ask NASCAR to allow them to accept the charter terms and become members, while offering to compensate NASCAR for all their legal costs resulting from the lawsuits. Maybe accept some reasonable added financial penalty for the trouble. Then just let it go and focus on racing, or race and develop a long term plan to exit and sell.
 
Conover said:
It is HIGHLY unlikely that the full 7 judge panel would somehow overrule their 3 distinguished colleagues on this ruling. The real issue is how ridiculous the first judge’s decisions were. It really didn’t align with business case law at all on the most basic level.

So will Kessler and his clients seek a settlement prior to filing a request for full panel hearing? They might. However, NASCAR has been very clear to them and in court testimony; they will not negotiate nor alter the terms of the Charter agreement currently in place for all other Chartered teams. Frankly, I wish these two owners would just ask NASCAR to allow them to accept the charter terms and become members, while offering to compensate NASCAR for all their legal costs resulting from the lawsuits. Maybe accept some reasonable added financial penalty for the trouble. Then just let it go and focus on racing, or race and develop a long term plan to exit and sell.
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You are a lot nicer than I would be. These are bad apples. All of the continual mouthing off by Hamlin and 23XI has done irreparable harm to the sport. Who's to say they won't continue to do the same thing after a slap on the wrist. Let them take their tennis shoes, hit the road and race somewhere else.
 
Maybe 23/FRM got exactly what they wanted with the 3 injunctions being vacated. Now they have their proof of being harmed because of the no sue clause in the contract.

 
Charlie Spencer said:
Yeah, because a 30-car field is going to be wildly popular with the fans, networks, seres sponsors, official partners, etc.
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You honestly think people would even notice? We went to all the races in charlotte and the people with me didn't even know there were more cars in the cup race than the trucks until I told them. Typically all people watch is the top 5 to at most 10 cars. How many are behind that doesn't matter.
 
wi_racefan said:
You honestly think people would even notice? We went to all the races in charlotte and the people with me didn't even know there were more cars in the cup race than the trucks until I told them. Typically all people watch is the top 5 to at most 10 cars. How many are behind that doesn't matter.
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But if you are left grasping at straws, any excuse will do. Field size, 3 dimensional chess, poor Hamlin, shoe prices will be going up lol. C'mon, hardly anybody gives a s*it. These guys are/were trying to make it so the tail could wag the dog by owning the charters outright. B.S. on that, go get your own racing series.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Yeah, because a 30-car field is going to be wildly popular with the fans, networks, seres sponsors, official partners, etc.
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NASCAR could force Gene Haas to buy the charters back in which case he would rush to re-sell them. Plus NASCAR could take the existing charters and either run a 30-32 car field, or run their own teams as Jim France reportedly wants to do.
 
wi_racefan said:
You honestly think people would even notice? We went to all the races in charlotte and the people with me didn't even know there were more cars in the cup race than the trucks until I told them. Typically all people watch is the top 5 to at most 10 cars. How many are behind that doesn't matter.
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Sidebar: Did y'all wind up walking to the track or driving?
 
HoneyBadger said:
NASCAR could force Gene Haas to buy the charters back in which case he would rush to re-sell them.
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How can they force Gene to give them the money? SHR no longer exists, and Haas Factory is a different business.
HoneyBadger said:
Plus NASCAR could take the existing charters and either run a 30-32 car field, or run their own teams as Jim France reportedly wants to do.
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Yep, although Jim's recent attempt wasn't exactly a popular idea either.

I just remember the screaming when the field size was reduced from 43. It wouldn't bother me if they only started 30 cars a week.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
How can they force Gene to give them the money? SHR no longer exists, and Haas Factory is a different business.
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Basically the sale of the charters becomes vacated.

It would be in Haas’s best financial interest. He can probably get twice as much money re-selling them. Especially with Dodge coming back.
 
HoneyBadger said:
NASCAR could force Gene Haas to buy the charters back in which case he would rush to re-sell them. Plus NASCAR could take the existing charters and either run a 30-32 car field, or run their own teams as Jim France reportedly wants to do.
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So somehow it equates from Jim France wanting one of his drivers from his IMSA racing team to run one race at Sonoma using a team that he doesn't own in the Nascar series to wanting to field multiple Nascar teams on his own lol. The B.S. is deep here.
 
StandOnIt said:
So somehow it equates from Jim France wanting one of his drivers from his IMSA racing team to run one race at Sonoma using a team that he doesn't own in the Nascar series to wanting to field multiple Nascar teams on his own lol. The B.S. is deep here.
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September 2024, months before the Sonoma one-off was a speck of tire in Jim's eye.
Four charters remain held back by NASCAR, earmarked for a future manufacturer that might join Chevrolet, Ford or Toyota in the Cup Series. A summer proposal from NASCAR suggested those charters should go to NASCAR and that the France family that runs the series should be able to field teams.
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Charlie Spencer said:
September 2024, months before the Sonoma one-off was a speck of tire in Jim's eye.

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I can see them buying back the charters, but it could be for resale or it is possible they could run teams because it wasn't proven it was a monopoly, Roger Penske does it and so does Jim France in IMSA. Or if Nascar proves the Sherman Act was violated, it could be part of the settlement they have to return them to NASCAR or Stewart Haas if they want them back. Many options.
 
StandOnIt said:
I can see them buying back the charters, but it could be for resale or it is possible they could run teams because it wasn't proven it was a monopoly, Roger Penske does it and so does Jim France in IMSA. Or if Nascar proves the Sherman Act was violated, it could be part of the settlement they have to return them to NASCAR or Stewart Haas if they want them back. Many options.
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My point was only that the notion of NASCAR / the Frances fielding cars, accurate or not, was around nine months before the Sonoma deal was made public. The Sonoma attempt didn't lead to the idea.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
My point was only that the notion of NASCAR / the Frances fielding cars, accurate or not, was around nine months before the Sonoma deal was made public. The Sonoma attempt didn't lead to the idea.
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That's fine. But who's to say if they were going to do it or it was posturing because 23XI was delaying and consequently didn't sign the contract. On another note, there isn't any law that says that Jim France couldn't race one of his drivers in another series. Just because the click baiters had a field day doesn't make it illegal.
 
StandOnIt said:
But who's to say if they were going to do it or it was posturing because 23XI was delaying and consequently didn't sign the contract.
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Not me.
StandOnIt said:
On another note, there isn't any law that says that Jim France couldn't race one of his drivers in another series.
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Agreed. At the moment, the Penske hassles don't cast the best light on a series owner also fielding cars, but it's not against the law or series' rules.
 
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