23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

The Sherman act is about a monopoly crushing the competition and creating an unfair playing field.

NASCAR directly owns a good portion of the venues. The CARS tour has never tried to compete with NASCAR (and good reason), I can’t imagine NASCAR would be very friendly with them if they did. The singular existence of a “competitor” doesn’t negate a monopoly.

You used to be able to take old chassis and run in other series. You can’t do that any more. That’s a huge barrier to entry for any prospective league.
 
Brad, I'm not clear how you running SRX is relevant. You entered as a driver in a car SRX provided. The charter-holding RFK team didn't try to field a NextGen car in an SRX race; indeed, RFK had no involvement at all.
 
America's Cup, PGA, and USTA are about as far from stick and ball as possible.

Why did NASCAR not complain months ago? Mishkin's history was known to them then. Now that it's actually coming to arbitration, they decide he's not suitable?
Nascar says they have exhausted attempts to settle, Mishkin didn't get them closer to a deal. Nascar wants a sitting judge that can bring insights about a jury trial, the risks involved etc.
 
NASCAR directly owns a good portion of the venues. The CARS tour has never tried to compete with NASCAR (and good reason), I can’t imagine NASCAR would be very friendly with them if they did. The singular existence of a “competitor” doesn’t negate a monopoly.

You used to be able to take old chassis and run in other series. You can’t do that any more. That’s a huge barrier to entry for any prospective league.
You just said your last post after you slammed sprint car racing for some reason that the cars series along with the NFL? was a better competitor. Now you say Cars isn't trying to compete? I'm confused. What this has to do with a monopoly or the Sherman act is beside me.
 
You just said your last post after you slammed sprint car racing for some reason that the cars series along with the NFL? was a better competitor. Now you say Cars isn't trying to compete? I'm confused. What this has to do with a monopoly or the Sherman act is beside me.

Go back and read carefully.

NASCAR has no competitor in their space. CARS is owned by a bunch of guys who work in the NASCAR ecosystem so they definitely aren’t trying to compete.

Sprint car racing is a COMPLETELY different discipline than what NASCAR does. It’s like comparing football to rugby. They’re similar and some skills transfer over but they aren’t the same. There’s a reason why it takes exceptional talent to successfully cross over.

The NFL also isn’t a competitor for the purposes of the Sherman Act, but I was deploying hyperbole as a rhetorical tool.
 
Brad, I'm not clear how you running SRX is relevant. You entered as a driver in a car SRX provided. The charter-holding RFK team didn't try to field a NextGen car in an SRX race; indeed, RFK had no involvement at all.
Maybe he wanted to sponsor his car with RFK Racing on it, but couldn't because of the non-compete rule in the charters. Brad said on Stacking Pennies that "There is a non-competition non-compete clause. If you're a Nascar Cup series owner, you're only allowed to compete in certain other sports. Not just with the car, just as a whole, your ownership group" (insert race team name here).
 
Brad, I'm not clear how you running SRX is relevant. You entered as a driver in a car SRX provided. The charter-holding RFK team didn't try to field a NextGen car in an SRX race; indeed, RFK had no involvement at all.
This is the equivalent to Patrick Mahomes playing in a flag football league during the off-season. It's not a competitor to the NFL and the NFL will not prohibit him from playing. The team might, but the league will not.
 
Brad, I'm not clear how you running SRX is relevant. You entered as a driver in a car SRX provided. The charter-holding RFK team didn't try to field a NextGen car in an SRX race; indeed, RFK had no involvement at all.
In this case In order for Nascar to be in violation of the Sherman Act Nascar would have to in some way sabotage either Brad's participation or SRX's ability in some way.
 
This is not what the Sherman Antitrust Act requires at all.
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I thought you said that wasn't an example of the Sherman Act that I posted regarding Keselowski and SRX. It was a text book one.

In what way was SRX a competitor to NASCAR? It was spec car series that was essentially for retired drivers, Hailie Deegan, and the occasional NASCAR driver. In no way were they a competitor and at no point did they even try to be.
 
In what way was SRX a competitor to NASCAR? It was spec car series that was essentially for retired drivers, Hailie Deegan, and the occasional NASCAR driver. In no way were they a competitor and at no point did they even try to be.
Your turn to read closely. It's a If this had happened statement (which it didn't).

In this case In order for Nascar to be in violation of the Sherman Act Nascar would have to in some way sabotage either Brad's participation or SRX's ability in some way.
 
If Nascar hasn't backed down from this part of their charter agreement, that is a problem. Who knows what all of them are arguing about at this point, but this part won't fly IMO.
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This would seem to indicate Penske is in violation (IndyCar and IMSA teams), along with Haas (F1), and Larson (participating in IndyCar and dirt series). =IF= that's the case (Ah say 'if', boy) and NASCAR hasn't enforced the restriction for those participants, it may have a hard time holding 23FRM to them.
 
Old Ford 7.3 diesel engine harness. Customer said needed engine (rollback truck) and brought a used engine with the truck. I did as I was told and installed engine. No testing before hand as i suggested. The glow plugs get fed juice thru the valve cover gaskets and both side were torched. When I pulled the covers, 2 injectors missing on drivers side and one on passenger. Not good! Shop manager was the hurry up type and said just take some out of the old engine. In process I noticed the engine harness damage. Again...manager said ignore it. That's not our problem. Yikes. Get it all together. It won't start. No communication with PCM.

Finally the manger said...I really don't know what to do. What did you do wrong? I'd had about enough of his stupidity and asked if he wanted to drag it outside so I could load my stuff up. It was blocking the door. Suddenly he was fine with me doing what I felt the truck needed as long as didn't require any parts purchase. New engine harness, when they were available was north of 600 bucks.

So I repaired the harness. Took couple hours but it fired right up after. That was likely what was wrong with it to start with. But who knows. Replacing an engine is cheaper than paying hour diag fee, right?

I'm posting this to keep the thread rolling. 100 pages right? <mods...do what you want/have to do although I don't see the harm>
 

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This would seem to indicate Penske is in violation (IndyCar and IMSA teams), along with Haas (F1), and Larson (participating in IndyCar and dirt series). =IF= that's the case (Ah say 'if', boy) and NASCAR hasn't enforced the restriction for those participants, it may have a hard time holding 23FRM to them.
Yeah I thought so too. This came from AI so I found it hard to believe for the same reasons. I thought Nascar was doing the anti competitive clause for teams racing in other stock car series. I thought the argument was about teams taking the car and racing it elsewhere in direct competition with Nascar. I thought another argument was about permanent charters.
 
i was wondering...
My post has no less relevance to the proceedings than anyone else's. Just trying to offer my contribution. Actully was looking for something in my computer and stumbled onto those pictures. It's kind of a funny story. Except the engine I put in was slap worn out. Whoops! They brought it with them. I just did what i was told.
 
This would seem to indicate Penske is in violation (IndyCar and IMSA teams), along with Haas (F1), and Larson (participating in IndyCar and dirt series). =IF= that's the case (Ah say 'if', boy) and NASCAR hasn't enforced the restriction for those participants, it may have a hard time holding 23FRM to them.
Same thing here if Blaney fired up a sprint car at a track he co owned. He's participating in any automobile or Truck racing not sanctioned by Nascar.
 
May
Yeah I thought so too. This came from AI so I found it hard to believe for the same reasons. I thought Nascar was doing the anti competitive clause for teams racing in other stock car series. I thought the argument was about teams taking the car and racing it elsewhere in direct competition with Nascar. I thought another argument was about permanent charters.
2) at least one team, maybe even more have some kind of side deal with NASCAR (wonder who that could be if true, lol). There have been several meetings between NASCAR and individual teams, so it's not inconceivable a team or two or three would have more reason to sign a deal than others. At face value, the terms of the agreement really don't make sense for a big team. Unless.....
Maybe a few teams have an exclusion on that non-compete clause in their contract that they signed.
 
May


Maybe a few teams have an exclusion on that non-compete clause in their contract that they signed.
Considering that all teams are no wheres close to being the same it's a no brainer their deals were different. Some are producing parts for the car, others engines, multi cars, etc. Seriously doubt those were in the charter agreements. They could be, but probably separate deals covering separate contracts for those individual parts, pieces etc.
We are talking about an anti competitive clause about "not participating in ANY automobile or Truck racing not sanctioned by Nascar". Nascar is saying. Hey it's just easier to enforce, takes away the grey area. That makes it all under Nascar's control. I think that is going to be really hard to defend if that is so.
 
The last time I was here there were 95 pages so seeing 97 today was encouraging. I wasn’t crazy about the talk of a a settlement though as we’ve come this far & I want a trial!
 
The last time I was here there were 95 pages so seeing 97 today was encouraging. I wasn’t crazy about the talk of a a settlement though as we’ve come this far & I want a trial!
Eh, you may be in Luck. Nascar is asking the court to appoint a judge and the reason is so they can advise both of them the legal ramifications if they go to trial. Nascar says they have exhausted the mediation process so they want a judge to look at it.
 
Nascar says they have exhausted attempts to settle, Mishkin didn't get them closer to a deal. Nascar wants a sitting judge that can bring insights about a jury trial, the risks involved etc.

Also, none of us know what was discussed, argued over or protested previously. As Bell’s CHOSEN mediator, MJ buddy Bell SHOULD HAVE KNOWN how big a conflict of interest Mishkin represented to this case. He held a very high position within the NBA, and Michael Fricken Jordan IS THE NBA! No matter his representation of multiple sports leagues, his career at the NBA coincided with different phases of Jordan's involvement with the league, first as a player and then as an owner.

Perhaps NASCAR wasn’t given any option early on relative to Bell’s sabotage selection, but no way they will go to mediation ahead of a jury trial with someone representing such a conflicting interest.
 
I wasn't offended by ur comment. Just saying, whole lot of drivel here. Almost as bad as my shed thread.

And NASCAR is DEFINITELY a monopolistic business. <on topic>

What type of plastic, and what makes it a single source plastic.
 
Also, none of us know what was discussed, argued over or protested previously. As Bell’s CHOSEN mediator, MJ buddy Bell SHOULD HAVE KNOWN how big a conflict of interest Mishkin represented to this case. He held a very high position within the NBA, and Michael Fricken Jordan IS THE NBA! No matter his representation of multiple sports leagues, his career at the NBA coincided with different phases of Jordan's involvement with the league, first as a player and then as an owner.

Perhaps NASCAR wasn’t given any option early on relative to Bell’s sabotage selection, but no way they will go to mediation ahead of a jury trial with someone representing such a conflicting interest.

Absolute fantasy gibberish.

Judge Bell did not choose the mediator. The two parties selected and agreed upon Mishkin after a directive to participate in pretrial mediation.


According to court records, the parties notified U.S. District Judge Kenneth D. Bell last week they had agreed on a mediator, and their pick is Mishkin. In December, Bell ordered the parties to conduct a mediation and for it to occur no later than Sept. 24, 2025. The judge also ordered them to pick a mediator by Jan. 31, 2025.
 
Bell has to make a ruling on Nascar's request to have a Judicial settlement conference. That is the next step. If they do get to have it the conference is confidential and not much info will come from that unless it gets leaked. I believe they have another court date the 21st of this month. I think our 100 pages or bust is safe at this point.
 
If NASCAR wasn’t familiar with Mishkin’s deep and long background within the NBA then slap their counsel’s face. But clearly they’ve experienced SOMETHING significant in the course of meetings to have grave concerns over Mishkin’s bias and inability to render a fair decision.
 
If NASCAR wasn’t familiar with Mishkin’s deep and long background within the NBA then slap their counsel’s face. But clearly they’ve experienced SOMETHING significant in the course of meetings to have grave concerns over Mishkin’s bias and inability to render a fair decision.
Lol, I read Muskin's credentials and I thought what the hell was Nascar thinking? Muskin is probably on a first name basis with everybody on the 23XI group lol. I gave Nascar the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they thought this would be a good way to see what hand they were going to play going forward. Ha.
 
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