23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

virtualbalboa said:
And now the entire talking point is null and void anyhow. This is going to mediation with Mishkin in charge because NASCAR is now open to settling the case. I look forwards to many more pages of speculation about how, in fact, NASCAR is going to win the lawsuit.
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and what will happen if they lose.
 
Nascar tried to get Judge Bell and Mushkin out of the picture and use the higher Magistrate judge Susan C. Rodriquez, but Bell blocked it. Sounds like Judge Bell might get in the middle of it. I see many pages if Nascar kicks it up to a higher court.

 
StandOnIt said:
and what will happen if they lose.
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The trial is heading to mediation for a settlement and.....yeah.

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Bell and the NBA mediator planning to double team NASCAR. Kessler and Jordan’s multiple NBA championship rings distracts attention allowing Hamcrap to sneak up behind and sucker punch Phelps with an illegal foreign object hidden in his ugly driver suit.

Seriously, what an ambush. Given this garbage NASCAR should be able to just go ahead and appeal for a change of venue to the higher court (I know they can’t).
 
Conover said:
Bell and the NBA mediator planning to double team NASCAR. Kessler and Jordan’s multiple NBA championship rings distracts attention allowing Hamcrap to sneak up behind and sucker punch Phelps with an illegal foreign object hidden in his ugly driver suit.

Seriously, what an ambush. Given this garbage NASCAR should be able to just go ahead and appeal for a change of venue to the higher court (I know they can’t).
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IF...it goes to trial? I'm saying it is going to.
 
Conover said:
Bell and the NBA mediator planning to double team NASCAR. Kessler and Jordan’s multiple NBA championship rings distracts attention allowing Hamcrap to sneak up behind and sucker punch Phelps with an illegal foreign object hidden in his ugly driver suit.

Seriously, what an ambush. Given this garbage NASCAR should be able to just go ahead and appeal for a change of venue to the higher court (I know they can’t).
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Here we go.
 
:lurk::cheers: I don't know about anyone else but I'm gonna wait to see how this turns out.
I've been around this sport longer than most of you are old and have seen NASCAR run roughshod over specific competitors and show blatant favoritism to others at great expense to someone else. There are also times when they have been charitable.

However this ends, there will be those who approve, those who continue to claim the fix is in no matter the outcome and those who hope something good might come of this.
It is pretty obvious who stands where.
Meantime, I'll sit and ........................... be patient. :lurk: :cheers:
 
Kenny Wallace said it best. He said everybody wants to win, but they just don't want to win, they want to stand on your throat and choke the other out. He was saying that about Nascar owners, teams, drivers, suppliers and Nascar in general. I hold no good guy hero worship about Nascar except their iron hand has brought them this far and I think this is nothing but a greedy power grab from those that sensed a perceived weakness. I laugh at the B.S. Kessler puts out and the others who say they aren't making any money. Nobody involved is doing this for the fans.
 
Conover said:
If NASCAR wasn’t familiar with Mishkin’s deep and long background within the NBA then slap their counsel’s face. But clearly they’ve experienced SOMETHING significant in the course of meetings to have grave concerns over Mishkin’s bias and inability to render a fair decision.
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@Conover, do you even know what mediation is, or what a mediator does? It seems as if you don't understand the difference between mediation and arbitration. I'd suggest a bit more research before you present your next legal analysis of the case.

Hint... A mediator doesn't decide anything, not in this case, and not ever.
 
This just seems like a game of trying to sway public opinion here. "See we're trying to settle"

Also I can't see how any just saying someone tied to the NBA as a mediator isn't biased. Maybe they could find someone from Nike to help out as well?
 
The people who hate Denny and Toyota talking about anyone being bias, is laughable to me. They think someone might be unfair and bias in the ruilings, because they know they themselves would be, and can't picture someone else not being bias.
 
wi_racefan said:
This just seems like a game of trying to sway public opinion here. "See we're trying to settle"

Also I can't see how any just saying someone tied to the NBA as a mediator isn't biased. Maybe they could find someone from Nike to help out as well?
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And guess who gets to gets to be the judge at the judicial conference? The judge that was overruled by a higher court when he let 23XI and Front Row continue to be paid as charter teams, Judge Bell. The cake and it it too judge.
 
wi_racefan said:
If you were nascar in this lawsuit would you be satisfied with the current mediator?
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As @gnomesayin posted above (here), Mishkin was approved by *both* Nascar and the plaintiffs at the beginning of the mediation process. Of all the thousands of professional mediators practicing in the United States, Nascar chose this one. Given the impressive depth of experience of both legal teams in litigating sports business issues over a period of multiple decades, one can be confident that both sets of lawyers were very familiar with Mishkin's impressive sports business resume. He was no pig in a poke; he was a known quantity that both sides approved. What more could you want?
 
LewTheShoe said:
As @gnomesayin posted above (here), Mishkin was approved by *both* Nascar and the plaintiffs at the beginning of the mediation process. Of all the thousands of professional mediators practicing in the United States, Nascar chose this one. Given the impressive depth of experience of both legal teams in litigating sports business issues over a period of multiple decades, one can be confident that both sets of lawyers were very familiar with Mishkin's impressive sports business resume. He was no pig in a poke; he was a known quantity that both sides approved. What more could you want?
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A guy from F-1?
 
wi_racefan said:
If you were nascar in this lawsuit would you be satisfied with the current mediator?
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I can't answer. I'm not a sports lawyer, I don't know what qualifications to look for in a mediator, I don't know what other mediators were available for the two sides to choose from. I do recall reading here that NASCAR and the teams chose Mishkin together, that he wasn't forced on either side. NASCAR may have had reasons to change its mind since then, and asking for a replacement seems to be a valid tactic, but I see the teams' point that we have a guy you agreed to and is already up to speed. Bringing a new person in who would be starting from scratch would only delay the process further.

If Mishkin was indeed a joint choice, if you were NASCAR's lawyers, why would you have agreed to him in the first place? It's a little late to get pissy now.
 
wi_racefan said:
If you were nascar in this lawsuit would you be satisfied with the current mediator?
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I mean, they were and have been up until right now. That's how he was selected in the first place.

Just want to remind everyone talking about the trial that the parties have agreed to work towards a settlement. Seems like an important detail here when half the thread is still talking about this going to trial. The whole "not knowing what a mediator does in spite of the name kinda telling you" is also not a great look but kinda secondary to the lawsuit that is being drawn to a conclusion via settlement, and thus not a trial.
 
LewTheShoe said:
As @gnomesayin posted above (here), Mishkin was approved by *both* Nascar and the plaintiffs at the beginning of the mediation process. Of all the thousands of professional mediators practicing in the United States, Nascar chose this one. Given the impressive depth of experience of both legal teams in litigating sports business issues over a period of multiple decades, one can be confident that both sets of lawyers were very familiar with Mishkin's impressive sports business resume. He was no pig in a poke; he was a known quantity that both sides approved. What more could you want?
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They want somebody that favors Nascar, obviously.
 
virtualbalboa said:
I mean, they were and have been up until right now. That's how he was selected in the first place.

Just want to remind everyone talking about the trial that the parties have agreed to work towards a settlement. Seems like an important detail here when half the thread is still talking about this going to trial. The whole "not knowing what a mediator does in spite of the name kinda telling you" is also not a great look but kinda secondary to the lawsuit that is being drawn to a conclusion via settlement, and thus not a trial.
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Thanks for the reminder. Trial date is set for December 1st. Just in case because wanting to settle and settling are two different things. If the former chief legal officer for the National Basketball Association Mr. Mishkin, Judge Bell and the parties involved can come to an agreement like some believe they can It won't go to trial. That is not a given though.
 
LewTheShoe said:
@Conover, do you even know what mediation is, or what a mediator does? It seems as if you don't understand the difference between mediation and arbitration. I'd suggest a bit more research before you present your next legal analysis of the case.

Hint... A mediator doesn't decide anything, not in this case, and not ever.
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Geez…yes Mr. Shoe…my corporate role with a Fortune 500 company involved lots of negotiation and development of contracts. This involved legal process both via the courts, arbitration and occasional use of mediation. I am not an attorney but worked with our legal team throughout. While I like to use some hyperbole for the fun of discussion here, my main point is how this mediator has a deep direct connection to the Jordan era NBA…bias is too instilled to ignore IMO. Also the heavy involvement of Judge Bell in this, and their seemingly lock step march with Kessler (further highlighted by the quote shared of Kessler by @StandOnIt), further raise my distrust of the entire group.

If you think judges and mediators are beyond reproach, and aren’t possible to unduly influence by wealthy plaintiffs, you’ve not been involved in these proceedings enough to find out. Look up “questionable mortgages by judges”. It’s the IN way to reward politicians and members of the courts. I’m not saying this is happening here, but I always question when a member of the court, be it a judge or magistrate or mediator, goes fully in one direction too fast or directs questioning unequally during proceedings. Bell did that in the early court sessions. His rulings were DESTROYED by the higher circuit court, where all 7 judges overturned him. So is Bell stupid, or is he biased?
 
Updated this MGB from a 28 Amp to think 95 Amp GM alternator and built a more modern underhood fuse box. Was a guy selling the fuse panels but he quit so I copied his design. I should drive over and see if she got any use out of it.

Nascar gonna lose. Denny Hambone will be Potus of the sport next season.Alternator and fuse panel install.jpgAlternator install.jpgCustom fuse panel.jpg
 
Conover said:
Geez…yes Mr. Shoe…my corporate role with a Fortune 500 company involved lots of negotiation and development of contracts. This involved legal process both via the courts, arbitration and occasional use of mediation. I am not an attorney but worked with our legal team throughout. While I like to use some hyperbole for the fun of discussion here, my main point is how this mediator has a deep direct connection to the Jordan era NBA…bias is too instilled to ignore IMO. Also the heavy involvement of Judge Bell in this, and their seemingly lock step march with Kessler (further highlighted by the quote shared of Kessler by @StandOnIt), further raise my distrust of the entire group.

If you think judges and mediators are beyond reproach, and aren’t possible to unduly influence by wealthy plaintiffs, you’ve not been involved in these proceedings enough to find out. Look up “questionable mortgages by judges”. It’s the IN way to reward politicians and members of the courts. I’m not saying this is happening here, but I always question when a member of the court, be it a judge or magistrate or mediator, goes fully in one direction too fast or directs questioning unequally during proceedings. Bell did that in the early court sessions. His rulings were DESTROYED by the higher circuit court, where all 7 judges overturned him. So is Bell stupid, or is he biased?
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Why our Supreme court would never accept expensive gifts like motor-homes, trips etc from people who have cases in front of them would they? Could we see Judge Bell with front row tickets? Lol.
 
Conover said:
If you think judges and mediators are beyond reproach, and aren’t possible to unduly influence by wealthy plaintiffs, you’ve not been involved in these proceedings enough to find out. Look up “questionable mortgages by judges”. It’s the IN way to reward politicians and members of the courts. I’m not saying this is happening here,
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That's all I can expect. Thanks.
 
wi_racefan said:
This just seems like a game of trying to sway public opinion here. "See we're trying to settle"

Also I can't see how any just saying someone tied to the NBA as a mediator isn't biased. Maybe they could find someone from Nike to help out as well?
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I think it will be a short meeting with the mediator. MJ/Polk will be asked if they will move off ownership of the charters & the answer will be no. NASCAR will be asked if they would be willing to make the charters permanent & the answer will be no. IDK how you overcome that & both sides will need to be able to save face too.

I think a settlement would be the best course of action but I’m hoping for a trial as I would be fascinated to see how it was adjudicated. The legal teams are the real winners in all of this.
 
AlTerego said:
I think it will be a short meeting with the mediator. MJ/Polk will be asked if they will move off ownership of the charters & the answer will be no. NASCAR will be asked if they would be willing to make the charters permanent & the answer will be no. IDK how you overcome that & both sides will need to be able to save face too.

I think a settlement would be the best course of action but I’m hoping for a trial as I would be fascinated to see how it was adjudicated. The legal teams are the real winners in all of this.
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That shouldn't take too long and then both sides get to write dear John letters for media consumption. I lack the optimism that others possess.
23XI is in it for the money grab, Nascar is trying to control what underwear they wear on a given day. If this AI paragraph I read is true, I think Nascar is way overboard limiting everybody's participation in any form of motorsports unless Nascar approves it. The old clause limited everybody to only competing stock car type series, not every form of racing.
 
Well it kinda cleared things up, but made it more confusing. Judging by this interview its still not very clear as to what the teams actually want out of the lawsuit.

It was nice that they clarified the need to give tracks as much as they do. Also why you can't treat this case like other professional sports, no tax payer money going into the sport.
 
wi_racefan said:
.... no tax payer money going into the sport.
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North Wilkesboro got 18 million dollars in federal funding.
Charlotte MOTOR Speedway received 10 million.
NASCAR teams received millions in Paycheck Protection Program funds.

NASCAR teams receive favored accelerated tax write-offs.

NASCAR per sea, has received federal funding through specific programs and tax benefits.

It seems tax payer money is in fact going into the sport.
 
Whizzer said:
North Wilkesboro got 18 million dollars in federal funding.
Charlotte MOTOR Speedway received 10 million.
NASCAR teams received millions in Paycheck Protection Program funds.

NASCAR teams receive favored accelerated tax write-offs.

NASCAR per sea, has received federal funding through specific programs and tax benefits.

It seems tax payer money is in fact going into the sport.
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So of all the tracks 3 received tax money.... and that was covid money
 
Whizzer said:
Regardless of what money was used, Covid or otherwise, federal money has in fact been used to benefit NASCAR.
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Agreed but it differs strongly with the tax methods used to support stick and ball stadiums.

The COVID money was allocated to NC to spend as the legislature wished. The amount of money was going to be spent somewhere, be it race tracks or elsewhere.

No local taxing authority went to or around local taxpayers to add a new tax over a period of years to directly support a private sports facility.
 
wi_racefan said:
Well it kinda cleared things up, but made it more confusing. Judging by this interview its still not very clear as to what the teams actually want out of the lawsuit.

It was nice that they clarified the need to give tracks as much as they do. Also why you can't treat this case like other professional sports, no tax payer money going into the sport.
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It's pretty much a case of a billionaire(s) with a team says, I don't like this stadium anymore it's old needs work (and I'm not paying for it with MY money), I'm thinking about moving my football team. In almost every case the city fathers say OH NO! you can't do that! We will get you a new place and we will pay for it with bonds, grants, and you know mostly Tax payer money.
Nascar doesn't for the most part have that option. The comparison between the two is about the difference between walking and flying.
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