23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

StandOnIt said:
Click to expand...


It is so obvious this is a pure money and power play by the Jordan cabal. But glad it’s headed to a trial. As long as they can seat reasonably intelligent persons, the verdict should crush this BS attempt to claim a monopoly.

Hamcrap said he thought “both sides were on a suicide mission”. Feeling the heat? After they lose I guess he can sell the building for 70 cents on the dollar. Will finish up next season’s sponsorship obligations, assuming they don’t pull the plug earlier. MJ won’t like seeing the bleeding out of greenbacks necessary to keep the operation afloat. Drivers will jump ship by September.

Wonder if Denny wakes up every 3 hours with such visions?
 
Conover said:
It is so obvious this is a pure money and power play by the Jordan cabal. But glad it’s headed to a trial. As long as they can seat reasonably intelligent persons, the verdict should crush this BS attempt to claim a monopoly.

Hamcrap said he thought “both sides were on a suicide mission”. Feeling the heat? After they lose I guess he can sell the building for 70 cents on the dollar. Will finish up next season’s sponsorship obligations, assuming they don’t pull the plug earlier. MJ won’t like seeing the bleeding out of greenbacks necessary to keep the operation afloat. Drivers will jump ship by September.

Wonder if Denny wakes up every 3 hours with such visions?
Click to expand...
I'm actually surprised that the sharks aren't after the blood in the water and trying to get Tyler. Sounds like his contract states he can leave if he's not in a chartered car.
 
wi_racefan said:
Sounds like his contract states he can leave if he's not in a chartered car.
Click to expand...
He can, but what rides are available that are better than what he has now? Other than maybe the D500, there are usually less than 40 cars entered. He's going to make the field, charter or not. As long as he's getting paid the amount in his contract, why jump? And what team has a half-decent seat open to jump into?
 
1761661247327.png

NASCAR:
1761661290850.jpeg


23XI/FRM:
1761661342335.jpeg
 
Greg said:
Limiting expressions of hatred and disqust is going to be a real mood killer and ruin it for so many.

I was hoping thay they would let the many many folks that suffered during Brian Frances tenure to testify about their sufferings. Victims of a murdered family member get to speak about how much they have sufferred during the sentencing phases in those trials. They even get to make a request for capital punishment.

Nascar fans should be able to construct some electric chairs and put them in a lottery with the possibility being chosen as an instrument of justice.

The people have suffereed and they cry out for justice. They need the closure to properly heal.
Click to expand...

I was hoping for a good old fashioned WWF cage match.
 
Counter claim by NASCAR thrown out. So much for the folks hoping cartel charges against the teams were gonna stick (lmaoooooo at that notion).



Anyhow, Jordan Bianchi seems to think the chances of a settlement are high enough he just wrote something paywalled at The Athletic about it.
 
wi_racefan said:
No one paid Nascar for a charter............ so I guess yes then can.
Click to expand...
So say you bought something from someone, paid millions of dollars for it...would you be okay with someone else just being able to take that from you and that be legal? Cause sure some of these teams got it free, but sometimes did pay a **** ton of money for them. If NASCAR just one day ends it, then they are just out of the money they spent on them. That's not right. But on the other hand, it cost NASCAR nothing to make the charter system, they wouldn't lose out on a single dime by making it permanent. So either way, NASCAR doesn't get screwed, but teams could.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Counter claim by NASCAR thrown out. So much for the folks hoping cartel charges against the teams were gonna stick (lmaoooooo at that notion).



Anyhow, Jordan Bianchi seems to think the chances of a settlement are high enough he just wrote something paywalled at The Athletic about it.
Click to expand...

Not surprised Bell did that even with written evidence to the contrary staring him in the face.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Anyhow, Jordan Bianchi seems to think the chances of a settlement are high enough he just wrote something paywalled at The Athletic about it.
Click to expand...

How NASCAR and 23XI/Front Row’s talks fell apart, and why a settlement could still come​

By Jordan Bianchi, updated 10/28/2025

Ever since last year, when two NASCAR teams filed an unprecedented antitrust lawsuit against the league, mutual destruction seemed inevitable.

There have been few developments to suggest an amicable settlement is coming before the scheduled Dec. 1 trial date, when NASCAR and NASCAR CEO and chairman Jim France would face off against 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports. That 23XI’s ownership group includes NBA legend Michael Jordan and championship-contending driver Denny Hamlin, only heightened the stakes.

However, over the past week, the case’s outlook has changed, and a settlement could be announced this week.

This is based on interviews with eight team owners and executives, as well as two league officials, who were granted anonymity so they could speak freely about ongoing tense negotiations. They shed light on a process that seemed headed for a resolution during a two-day settlement last week, only to break down in the final hours. Now, one of NASCAR’s top executives is making a push to strike a deal in advance of the league’s championship race this weekend in Phoenix.

The breakthrough toward a potential settlement began last Tuesday, when the parties participated in a settlement conference initiated at NASCAR’s request, which the court granted. Unlike the court-mandated arbitration hearing held in August, which did little to bridge the sides’ differences, the tone of last week’s sessions was decidedly different.

Initially scheduled for a single day, the talks were so encouraging during the initial eight-hour session that both sides opted to continue the discussions the next day. The positive vibes carried over into Wednesday morning, where the deal’s framework began to take shape.

One of the main hurdles cleared was NASCAR’s willingness to explore terms that give teams more flexibility and leverage in future charter negotiations. This sticking point prompted 23XI and Front Row to file a lawsuit last October, accusing NASCAR and France of monopolistic practices.

By owning one of the 36 available charters, a team is guaranteed a minimum revenue amount. Operating as a charter team can mean a difference of several million dollars over operating as a non-charter “open” team. The financial and guaranteed starting position (charter teams are assured entry into all 36 points races) are benefits at the heart of the extension to the charter agreement that 13 teams — all but 23XI and Front Row — signed in September 2024.

During the settlement conference, NASCAR acquiesced and agreed to provide teams with long-term security and assurances that the charter system would remain in place. The league also assured it would not seek to eliminate the system in 2031 when the current seven-year charter agreement, which includes an option for an additional seven years, expires. These assurances have been mainly accepted by team owners and executives contacted by The Athletic.

Several of these sources described the discussions as an “evergreen” system, likening it to franchise ownership in most other stick-and-ball leagues. And at NASCAR’s behest, a provision has been inserted that an owner could be forced to sell their charter to the league if their behavior irreparably harms the sport by violating NASCAR’s ethical standards.


The “evergreen” charters concept was largely agreed upon last Wednesday morning. Also, NASCAR agreed to return 23XI and Front Row’s six combined charters, which they lost during the ongoing litigation and are valued at as much as $300 million based on recent sales (the last charter sale was for $45 million). Talks were progressing, and the lawsuit that’s rocked NASCAR for the past 12 months appeared to be nearing the finish line.

By Wednesday afternoon, that optimism vanished.

The talks, team and league sources said, fell apart due to another issue that arose in recent months: Who was responsible for paying the legal fees incurred, estimated at close to $100 million when combined for both sides? Additionally, 23XI and Front Row insisted on being reimbursed for money lost while competing without charters after losing their preliminary injunction status in September.

NASCAR balked at making the payment, team and league sources said, taking the position that, since the teams had refused to sign the charter and then filed a lawsuit, they were responsible for creating this situation. NASCAR’s pushback effectively ended the session.

Although neither party offered much comment as they left the federal courthouse in downtown Charlotte, N.C., the expressions on their faces told the story.

“It was OK the first day, not great the second day, and I don’t know, it didn’t end in any resolution unfortunately,” Hamlin said last Saturday, when The Athletic asked how settlement talks went. “… Both sides probably feel strong about their case. You sat in the court and heard the arguments. I’ll let you come up with your own opinion, but I think one of us is on a suicide mission.”

Still, team and league sources said, a deal between the parties could happen as soon as this week. NASCAR commissioner Steve Phelps is working to reach an agreement, making calls to members of both parties to settle this lawsuit in advance of the Phoenix championship race — in which Hamlin is one of four finalists competing for the premier Cup Series championship.

With talks breaking down after NASCAR agreed to improved charter terms, other teams have questioned 23XI and Front Row’s endgame. Several team executives asked why, if those teams’ priority was to secure long-term stability and improved terms for the charter-holding teams, they were continuing legal action after achieving that goal.

“This should be over now,” one team executive said. “(23XI and Front Row) say they’re fighting for all of us (teams), well, they got permanent charters and this lawsuit hasn’t gone away. All they’re doing is making it harder on the rest of us to do business and actually try to grow this thing.”

Among the 13 teams that signed the charter agreement, there is also some annoyance directed at NASCAR for taking so long to grant permanent charters. Several team leaders say that had NASCAR agreed to this at any point since the onset of charter negotiations in the summer of 2022, it would’ve meant no litigation or the accompanying fallout.

“NASCAR could’ve ended this a long time ago if they wanted to; they refused,” a team owner said.

NASCAR, 23XI and Front Row are now staring at a trial set to commence on Dec. 1, one that threatens to test the fabric of the sport and chase two teams away.

Racing against the ticking clock is Phelps, NASCAR’s commissioner, whose objective now is to find a way to resolve this case, preferably before NASCAR crowns its champion this Sunday.

Kenneth Bell, the presiding judge in the case, has repeatedly cautioned that if this case goes to trial, the outcome could have ramifications that could massively reshape the sport.

“I’m trying to figure out how big the fire hose should be,” Bell told the parties last Thursday during a summary judgment hearing.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/author/jordan-bianchi/
 
The problem with NASCAR's countersuit is that it wasn't enough to show that the teams coordinated their negotiations with NASCAR. That isn't illegal or recognized as collusive by law. It would be collusive for the teams to illicitly agree to underpay drivers or crew members under market value. It is not illegal for the teams to attempt collective bargaining with NASCAR.

NASCAR tried to squash the collective effort by demanding to only negotiate individually with each team. This almost worked, but two teams refused the strongarm and sued.

Now there will almost surely be a settlement before trial, and possibly soon.
 
StandOnIt said:
Not surprised Bell did that even with written evidence to the contrary staring him in the face.
Click to expand...
Yep, Bell is an MJ lover, his prior rulings have been struck down, and he’s not a reliable adjudicator for fairness IMO. Having said that, NASCAR’s contention in this particular claim was a very difficult one to win. Was there evidence? Yes for sure. Did it rise to a malevolent level necessary to punish and levy $$$ awards? Not in Bell’s world

Has no bearing on the plaintiff’s weak claim of monopoly.
 
LewTheShoe said:

How NASCAR and 23XI/Front Row’s talks fell apart, and why a settlement could still come​

By Jordan Bianchi, updated 10/28/2025

Ever since last year, when two NASCAR teams filed an unprecedented antitrust lawsuit against the league, mutual destruction seemed inevitable.

There have been few developments to suggest an amicable settlement is coming before the scheduled Dec. 1 trial date, when NASCAR and NASCAR CEO and chairman Jim France would face off against 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports. That 23XI’s ownership group includes NBA legend Michael Jordan and championship-contending driver Denny Hamlin, only heightened the stakes.

However, over the past week, the case’s outlook has changed, and a settlement could be announced this week.

This is based on interviews with eight team owners and executives, as well as two league officials, who were granted anonymity so they could speak freely about ongoing tense negotiations. They shed light on a process that seemed headed for a resolution during a two-day settlement last week, only to break down in the final hours. Now, one of NASCAR’s top executives is making a push to strike a deal in advance of the league’s championship race this weekend in Phoenix.

The breakthrough toward a potential settlement began last Tuesday, when the parties participated in a settlement conference initiated at NASCAR’s request, which the court granted. Unlike the court-mandated arbitration hearing held in August, which did little to bridge the sides’ differences, the tone of last week’s sessions was decidedly different.

Initially scheduled for a single day, the talks were so encouraging during the initial eight-hour session that both sides opted to continue the discussions the next day. The positive vibes carried over into Wednesday morning, where the deal’s framework began to take shape.

One of the main hurdles cleared was NASCAR’s willingness to explore terms that give teams more flexibility and leverage in future charter negotiations. This sticking point prompted 23XI and Front Row to file a lawsuit last October, accusing NASCAR and France of monopolistic practices.

By owning one of the 36 available charters, a team is guaranteed a minimum revenue amount. Operating as a charter team can mean a difference of several million dollars over operating as a non-charter “open” team. The financial and guaranteed starting position (charter teams are assured entry into all 36 points races) are benefits at the heart of the extension to the charter agreement that 13 teams — all but 23XI and Front Row — signed in September 2024.

During the settlement conference, NASCAR acquiesced and agreed to provide teams with long-term security and assurances that the charter system would remain in place. The league also assured it would not seek to eliminate the system in 2031 when the current seven-year charter agreement, which includes an option for an additional seven years, expires. These assurances have been mainly accepted by team owners and executives contacted by The Athletic.

Several of these sources described the discussions as an “evergreen” system, likening it to franchise ownership in most other stick-and-ball leagues. And at NASCAR’s behest, a provision has been inserted that an owner could be forced to sell their charter to the league if their behavior irreparably harms the sport by violating NASCAR’s ethical standards.


The “evergreen” charters concept was largely agreed upon last Wednesday morning. Also, NASCAR agreed to return 23XI and Front Row’s six combined charters, which they lost during the ongoing litigation and are valued at as much as $300 million based on recent sales (the last charter sale was for $45 million). Talks were progressing, and the lawsuit that’s rocked NASCAR for the past 12 months appeared to be nearing the finish line.

By Wednesday afternoon, that optimism vanished.

The talks, team and league sources said, fell apart due to another issue that arose in recent months: Who was responsible for paying the legal fees incurred, estimated at close to $100 million when combined for both sides? Additionally, 23XI and Front Row insisted on being reimbursed for money lost while competing without charters after losing their preliminary injunction status in September.

NASCAR balked at making the payment, team and league sources said, taking the position that, since the teams had refused to sign the charter and then filed a lawsuit, they were responsible for creating this situation. NASCAR’s pushback effectively ended the session.

Although neither party offered much comment as they left the federal courthouse in downtown Charlotte, N.C., the expressions on their faces told the story.

“It was OK the first day, not great the second day, and I don’t know, it didn’t end in any resolution unfortunately,” Hamlin said last Saturday, when The Athletic asked how settlement talks went. “… Both sides probably feel strong about their case. You sat in the court and heard the arguments. I’ll let you come up with your own opinion, but I think one of us is on a suicide mission.”

Still, team and league sources said, a deal between the parties could happen as soon as this week. NASCAR commissioner Steve Phelps is working to reach an agreement, making calls to members of both parties to settle this lawsuit in advance of the Phoenix championship race — in which Hamlin is one of four finalists competing for the premier Cup Series championship.

With talks breaking down after NASCAR agreed to improved charter terms, other teams have questioned 23XI and Front Row’s endgame. Several team executives asked why, if those teams’ priority was to secure long-term stability and improved terms for the charter-holding teams, they were continuing legal action after achieving that goal.

“This should be over now,” one team executive said. “(23XI and Front Row) say they’re fighting for all of us (teams), well, they got permanent charters and this lawsuit hasn’t gone away. All they’re doing is making it harder on the rest of us to do business and actually try to grow this thing.”

Among the 13 teams that signed the charter agreement, there is also some annoyance directed at NASCAR for taking so long to grant permanent charters. Several team leaders say that had NASCAR agreed to this at any point since the onset of charter negotiations in the summer of 2022, it would’ve meant no litigation or the accompanying fallout.

“NASCAR could’ve ended this a long time ago if they wanted to; they refused,” a team owner said.

NASCAR, 23XI and Front Row are now staring at a trial set to commence on Dec. 1, one that threatens to test the fabric of the sport and chase two teams away.

Racing against the ticking clock is Phelps, NASCAR’s commissioner, whose objective now is to find a way to resolve this case, preferably before NASCAR crowns its champion this Sunday.

Kenneth Bell, the presiding judge in the case, has repeatedly cautioned that if this case goes to trial, the outcome could have ramifications that could massively reshape the sport.

“I’m trying to figure out how big the fire hose should be,” Bell told the parties last Thursday during a summary judgment hearing.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/author/jordan-bianchi/
Click to expand...

That's a huge scoop for Bianchi and there is a lot there.
 
Nascar's statement after their counter claim was dismissed by Judge Bell seems to acknowledge that a settlement is their top priority, including the possible announcement this week before the Phoenix race. The quote below is from ESPN.com.

"We respect the Court's decision, though we respectfully disagree with its legal reasoning," NASCAR said. "Our priority remains resolving this matter quickly so all parties can focus on Championship weekend and continuing to grow the sport.

"Should a resolution not be reached, we intend to appeal the decision at the appropriate time."
 
LewTheShoe said:
Several of these sources described the discussions as an “evergreen” system, likening it to franchise ownership in most other stick-and-ball leagues. And at NASCAR’s behest, a provision has been inserted that an owner could be forced to sell their charter to the league if their behavior irreparably harms the sport by violating NASCAR’s ethical standards.

The “evergreen” charters concept was largely agreed upon last Wednesday morning. Also, NASCAR agreed to return 23XI and Front Row’s six combined charters,
Click to expand...
Sounds familiar.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom