A call to arms for NASCAR

Well I've seen some racing back in the field shown on TV, that is not what I'm trying to point out. The biggest problem is when you have a car that goes out in clean air in the lead and gets ahead by 3 seconds. Take that same car, put him in 15th and he can't go anywhere because of the damn aero push and DITRY AIR. There is a reason why you hear drivers stating that track position is more important than ever and that is because it is harder to pass than it has been in years due of the design of the Spec Cup Car.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Well I've seen some racing back in the field shown on TV, that is not what I'm trying to point out. The biggest problem is when you have a car that goes out in clean air in the lead and gets ahead by 3 seconds. Take that same car, put him in 15th and he can't go anywhere because of the damn aero push and DITRY AIR. There is a reason why you hear drivers stating that track position is more important than ever and that is because it is harder to pass than it has been in years due of the design of the Spec Cup Car.
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Track position even matters at Darlington now.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Oh yeh... really? So once a car gets out in CLEAN AIR he runs away from the field, is that a good thing? It doesn't have to be a photo finish, but there have not been that many close finishes in the last two seasons. Fans are not excited, economy aside, did you see all the empty seats at Dover today? I have been a fan of Nascar since I was four years old, and right now it is a boring sport. I love racing at the highest level, but what we have today is not a good product.
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The winners never have any trouble getting to the front . I saw tons of passing all day . Jimmy Johnson had the best car today . I'm a fan and I was excited , and I've been a fan for forty years . I may be old , but I certainly wouldn't waste my time if I was bored , I 'd try watching the golf or something.
 
ted@economy said:
The winners never have any trouble getting to the front . I saw tons of passing all day . Jimmy Johnson had the best car today . I'm a fan and I was excited , and I've been a fan for forty years . I may be old , but I certainly wouldn't waste my time if I was bored , I 'd try watching the golf or something.
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I'm a dedicated fan too for 47 years, it's obvious we don't agree, but the racing we have today leaves a lot to be improved on. The two main issues IMO are the aero problems and doing something with the joke Nascar calls plate racing. Vastly improve those and the racing will be a hell of a lot better.
 
ted@economy said:
The winners never have any trouble getting to the front . I saw tons of passing all day.
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Mopardh9 said:
the racing we have today leaves a lot to be improved on. The two main issues IMO are the aero problems and doing something with the joke Nascar calls plate racing.
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dh9 & ted: Us Old Farts all have to stick together! You both agree that NASCAR is a great sport.
Otherwise y'all wouldn't be here, right?
I certainly think that ted is right when he says that there is still a lot of racing action that goes on every week. Whether or not the broadcasters care to show it to us is another story.
And I agree 100% with dh9 when he mentions AERO dependency and destructor plates as being horrid things.

Tell ya what. I'll be like that guy in the White House and invite you both over to my place for a beer.
We can stew in the hot tub or float in the pool while we solve NA$$CAR's problems.
How's next Sunday sound? A 400 mile race at Pocono will give us lots of time to talk! lol
 
Mopardh9 said:
I'm a dedicated fan too for 47 years, it's obvious we don't agree, but the racing we have today leaves a lot to be improved on. The two main issues IMO are the aero problems and doing something with the joke Nascar calls plate racing. Vastly improve those and the racing will be a hell of a lot better.
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Back in the day , if you remember , slower cars had trouble passing faster cars . We didn't know about your fancy aero engineering stuff , so we just called the ones behind ..slower cars and the ones ahead ...faster cars . Anyone who had anything for Jimmy yesterday has lots of time to pass him , in fact several did , but then he just passed them back . Sure , maybe Dave Blaney is having aero issues , I'll give you that .:D
 
ted@economy said:
The winners never have any trouble getting to the front . I saw tons of passing all day . Jimmy Johnson had the best car today . I'm a fan and I was excited , and I've been a fan for forty years . I may be old , but I certainly wouldn't waste my time if I was bored , I 'd try watching the golf or something.
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ted@economy said:
Back in the day , if you remember , slower cars had trouble passing faster cars . We didn't know about your fancy aero engineering stuff , so we just called the ones behind ..slower cars and the ones ahead ...faster cars . Anyone who had anything for Jimmy yesterday has lots of time to pass him , in fact several did , but then he just passed them back . Sure , maybe Dave Blaney is having aero issues , I'll give you that .:D
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Did you watch Jeff Gordon any? I'd have to say he had the best car. He started 14th, ran down Jimmie Johnson mid-race, and gained a pretty big lead before he started having tire issues. 20 or so laps after he pitted, everyone else had to pit, and he got the lead again. Then he started to get an even bigger lead until he had to pit again. Had the caution had not come out before the leaders made their final pit stop after that, he would have been up front after everyone else pitted under green.
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
Did you watch Jeff Gordon any? I'd have to say he had the best car. He started 14th, ran down Jimmie Johnson mid-race, and gained a pretty big lead before he started having tire issues. 20 or so laps after he pitted, everyone else had to pit, and he got the lead again. Then he started to get an even bigger lead until he had to pit again. Had the caution had not come out before the leaders made their final pit stop after that, he would have been up front after everyone else pitted under green.
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Yep , I saw Gordon passing cars all day , I saw Carl Edwards drive from 19th to the top five in like 50 laps before he wrecked ; all I'm saying is these guys had no aero issues . I didn't hear a single drive complain about aero issues . There is an areo issue from time to time , but we make way to big a deal of it . Nothing has changed in racing , you got yer fast cars and yer slow cars , yer good pit stops and yer bad pit stops , yer good strategy and yer bad , there has always been air .
 
Wanna eliminate AERO push?
Eliminate the splitter,
Eliminate the spoiler.
Eliminate the side skirts.
Eliminate the shark fin.
Eliminate the bump stops.
Eliminate coil binding.
Eliminate power steering.
Wanna hear drivers cry like little babies?
 
So what are we really talking about here . An aero obstacle which is there and effects all cars equally . The fast cars are not as hurt by it as the slow cars . Therefore we what ?, try to remove it so the slow cars are more able to pass the fast cars ? I don't see why . Are we trying to get even more parity ?
 
ted@economy said:
I don't see why
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We quite often hear drivers complain about the fact that once they get stuck in traffic that they can't get out of it - due to the fact that the "dirty air" changes the way their car handles. And Larry Mac is always talking about how track position is "so imporedunt" because of the "clean air" on the splitter.
 
ted@economy said:
Yep , I saw Gordon passing cars all day , I saw Carl Edwards drive from 19th to the top five in like 50 laps before he wrecked ; all I'm saying is these guys had no aero issues . I didn't hear a single drive complain about aero issues . There is an areo issue from time to time , but we make way to big a deal of it . Nothing has changed in racing , you got yer fast cars and yer slow cars , yer good pit stops and yer bad pit stops , yer good strategy and yer bad , there has always been air .
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Sorry, I was mostly responding to what you said about Jimmie having the best car and nobody being able to challenge him. I really don't know anything about "aero push" or how it affects racing.
 
ted@economy said:
Remember those big Petty Dodges with the wing on the back ?And those convertibles ? They were all about aero , weren't they ?
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The convertibles? Yeah, I remember those. They were effen NASTY in traffic from what I understand. And the Dodge Daytona / Plymouth Roadrunner were MOPAR's response to the Thunderbird - which was the first to truly use aerodynamics for downforce - if you don't count the sleek and slippery Hudson Hornet!

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robbybee said:
The convertibles? Yeah, I remember those. They were effen NASTY in traffic from what I understand. And the Dodge Daytona / Plymouth Roadrunner were MOPAR's response to the Thunderbird - which was the first to truly use aerodynamics for downforce - if you don't count the sleek and slippery Hudson Hornet!

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I'm guessin there were lots of aero push issues back then , but there weren't any engineers around to put a name to it .
 
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