Adjustments on the cars

10-4

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Ok maybe a dumb question here but how are they making adjustments on the cars? I know they sometimes remove or install spacers in the springs when they change tires and adjusting air pressures is a big deal. But they used to crank on the cars at the back window. One of those adjustments was the track bar but I dont remember what the other was. Of course the drivers had, for a few seasons, an in car adjustable track bar toggle switch that they could fiddle with while racing. Nascar took that away a couple of years ago. Why don't they crank on the cars at the rear window any more? Are spring spacers and air pressures the only adjustments they make anymore? What did I miss here that they stopped making adjustments cranking on it at the rear window?
 

AdoubleU24

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Ok maybe a dumb question here but how are they making adjustments on the cars? I know they sometimes remove or install spacers in the springs when they change tires and adjusting air pressures is a big deal. But they used to crank on the cars at the back window. One of those adjustments was the track bar but I dont remember what the other was. Of course the drivers had, for a few seasons, an in car adjustable track bar toggle switch that they could fiddle with while racing. Nascar took that away a couple of years ago. Why don't they crank on the cars at the rear window any more? Are spring spacers and air pressures the only adjustments they make anymore? What did I miss here that they stopped making adjustments cranking on it at the rear window?
They still have the track bar holes in the windows, you probably just haven't caught it during pit stops. No more adjuster inside the car, all they can adjust is the brake bias and of course toggle fans on and off...and neons lol.
 

KTMLew01

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They are big go-karts. The suspension is designed to compress and stay there. Very little compression damping in shocks and tons of rebound. That ties the car down because Aero is king. Mechanical grip is achieved thru tire pressure. The tires are effectively the springs.
 

Formerjackman

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They still use the jack screws to adjust the rear springs, BUT, with the reduced size pit crews, and the limit on doing two things at once, you pay a pretty stiff time penalty, so usually that is reserved as a last resort. Tire pressure adjustments, which is really more of a fine tune measure is ALWAYS the first option, because it doesn't effect the pit stop, followed by the track bar. The 8 car got a HUGE chassis adjustment last night under caution.
 

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They still use the jack screws to adjust the rear springs, BUT, with the reduced size pit crews, and the limit on doing two things at once, you pay a pretty stiff time penalty, so usually that is reserved as a last resort. Tire pressure adjustments, which is really more of a fine tune measure is ALWAYS the first option, because it doesn't effect the pit stop, followed by the track bar. The 8 car got a HUGE chassis adjustment last night under caution.
Which is the reason, if the car is way off at the beginning of the race, it will most likely never to be able to overcome it's inadequacy. This is one reason that they should eliminate or reduce the reliance on aero (even at short tracks) and go away from bump stops, require all four corners to be suspended.
 

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I have ALWAYS hated the bump stops, and feel that bottoming out your suspension should be such a performance penalty that nobody would want to do it, but regardless, with such a small over the wall crew, teams are going to be VERY reluctant to make major wedge changes during a race.
 

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I have ALWAYS hated the bump stops, and feel that bottoming out your suspension should be such a performance penalty that nobody would want to do it, but regardless, with such a small over the wall crew, teams are going to be VERY reluctant to make major wedge changes during a race.
Sign of the times, track technology has been able to make really smooth tracks so teams can get away with hardly any suspension it isn't needed. Nascar took the B.S. ride height and their penalties away that teams spent buku bucks getting around anyway.. Teams have taken a whole bunch of downforce away since the new package was introduced and Nascar said that was going to happen when they introduced the package. Passing is down and speeds are up. They came up with/dumbed into a good short track package, but that is a copy of Gen 3 and 4 versions but with a bit higher spoiler.
 

Formerjackman

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Sign of the times, track technology has been able to make really smooth tracks so teams can get away with hardly any suspension it isn't needed. Nascar took the B.S. ride height and their penalties away that teams spent buku bucks getting around anyway.. Teams have taken a whole bunch of downforce away since the new package was introduced and Nascar said that was going to happen when they introduced the package. Passing is down and speeds are up. They came up with/dumbed into a good short track package, but that is a copy of Gen 3 and 4 versions but with a bit higher spoiler.

With the exceptions of Indy, I don't think the tracks are really that smooth, they have just decided that the benefit outweighs beating the crap out of the car and the driver. Why have a suspension at all? just weld the axle and the control arms right to the frame. Look at all the money THAT would save.
 

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With the exceptions of Indy, I don't think the tracks are really that smooth, they have just decided that the benefit outweighs beating the crap out of the car and the driver. Why have a suspension at all? just weld the axle and the control arms right to the frame. Look at all the money THAT would save.
Oh I understand if I say it is white you will say it's black. But when teams can set the splitter less than an inch from the track and run into the corners that way, you can think the tracks are rough. I understand.
 

Formerjackman

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Oh I understand if I say it is white you will say it's black. But when teams can set the splitter less than an inch from the track and run into the corners that way, you can think the tracks are rough. I understand.

Well. since I'm not a driver, I don't know, but the DRIVERS seem to think they are, they complain about how the harsh ride of the cars beats the hell out of them, and some of the in car cameras vibrate so bad they are hardly watchable. That's all I'm basing that opinion on. My point is just that if the springs are so soft the the splitter drops to the ground and the shocks hold the car there, why bother with a suspension? Bump stops were outlawed at one time, but for some reason NASCAR caved on that. I'm not sure I ever heard exactly why, except that it was probably a bitch to police it.
 

StandOnIt

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Well. since I'm not a driver, I don't know, but the DRIVERS seem to think they are, they complain about how the harsh ride of the cars beats the hell out of them, and some of the in car cameras vibrate so bad they are hardly watchable. That's all I'm basing that opinion on. My point is just that if the springs are so soft the the splitter drops to the ground and the shocks hold the car there, why bother with a suspension? Bump stops were outlawed at one time, but for some reason NASCAR caved on that. I'm not sure I ever heard exactly why, except that it was probably a bitch to police it.
Bump stops were never illegal. They weren't permitted until they were. What WAS permitted years ago was shocks that had no valving on the downstroke but would raise up when no downforce was applied to meet the hight rules and it was a cluster. I don't know which race you have been watching, Cale back in the 60's? I don't remember when an in car camera was bouncing around maybe 50 years ago?
 

aunty dive

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Ok maybe a dumb question here but how are they making adjustments on the cars? I know they sometimes remove or install spacers in the springs when they change tires and adjusting air pressures is a big deal. But they used to crank on the cars at the back window. One of those adjustments was the track bar but I dont remember what the other was. Of course the drivers had, for a few seasons, an in car adjustable track bar toggle switch that they could fiddle with while racing. Nascar took that away a couple of years ago. Why don't they crank on the cars at the rear window any more? Are spring spacers and air pressures the only adjustments they make anymore? What did I miss here that they stopped making adjustments cranking on it at the rear window?
I wonder how many rounds went into the left side jacking bolt on KB’s winning / not winning car yesterday?
 

aunty dive

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Actually, not enough...they took too many out.
I thought the left rear was too high. Apparently not ... too low, making yours the correct answer.

KB said they put a turn in the right rear during the race:

“We even put a round in the right-rear during the race in order to help the handling characteristic and then the left-rear was low. I don’t know.”

 

OldTimer

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Bump stops were never illegal. They weren't permitted until they were. What WAS permitted years ago was shocks that had no valving on the downstroke but would raise up when no downforce was applied to meet the hight rules and it was a cluster. I don't know which race you have been watching, Cale back in the 60's? I don't remember when an in car camera was bouncing around maybe 50 years ago?
Actually they required shocks to be valved, sealed units from 1966 through the '70's. We had various rebound/compression ratios to work with though. 90/10, 70/30, 60/40, 50/50, 40/60, 30/70, 10/90. Along with various valve stiffness such as 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9....no 0, 1, or 10's.

Back then all shocks had to have a sealed welded "factory" body (vision the old yellow Monroe) and had to be mounted in the "stock" configuration (no upside down shocks to reduce unsprung weight). Typical Bristol set up would be 30/70-4 LF, 70/30-7 RF, 60/40-5 RR, and 50/50-4 LR. Spring rates started at 750# LF, 1100# RF, 200# RR, and 250# LR....stagger across the front was usually less than an inch and an inch to two inches in the back.
 

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Ok maybe a dumb question here but how are they making adjustments on the cars? I know they sometimes remove or install spacers in the springs when they change tires and adjusting air pressures is a big deal. But they used to crank on the cars at the back window. One of those adjustments was the track bar but I dont remember what the other was. Of course the drivers had, for a few seasons, an in car adjustable track bar toggle switch that they could fiddle with while racing. Nascar took that away a couple of years ago. Why don't they crank on the cars at the rear window any more? Are spring spacers and air pressures the only adjustments they make anymore? What did I miss here that they stopped making adjustments cranking on it at the rear window?
Basically you can do any adjustment to the car you could do the last 40 years
 

Spotter22

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Actually they required shocks to be valved, sealed units from 1966 through the '70's. We had various rebound/compression ratios to work with though. 90/10, 70/30, 60/40, 50/50, 40/60, 30/70, 10/90. Along with various valve stiffness such as 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9....no 0, 1, or 10's.

Back then all shocks had to have a sealed welded "factory" body (vision the old yellow Monroe) and had to be mounted in the "stock" configuration (no upside down shocks to reduce unsprung weight). Typical Bristol set up would be 30/70-4 LF, 70/30-7 RF, 60/40-5 RR, and 50/50-4 LR. Spring rates started at 750# LF, 1100# RF, 200# RR, and 250# LR....stagger across the front was usually less than an inch and an inch to two inches in the back.
We wore the feild out at Myrtle Beach speedway during the 1994 season with a set of factory Koni shocks.
 

StandOnIt

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Well, they say there are going to be many standardized parts on the new car. I wonder how far they will go with it.
 

Spotter22

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Argh....what killed the short track series like ASA and ARTGO. $1000 on each corner for shocks compared to the $30 Monroe's.
Yeah at the time we were running against teams that had Carrea's, Pro etc.....
 
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