Alan Kulwicki

BradBlaney

BradBlaney

Crew Chief
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Is he really a hall of famer? Was arguing this on Twitter, people were talking about his legacy. Besides one historic season what's his legacy? He has five career wins, Clint Bowyer has more
 
That's a tough one, because Alan's story and the way he built his team was so remarkable. But going off stats alone, it's borderline. He does have the championship, but he never finished higher than 8th in points any other year, and only has the 5 wins and only a little over 200 starts. I think he gets in, but maybe not right away.
 
NASCAR Apologist said:
Cup champion = de facto auto bid
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Auto bid doesn't equate to auto admission.

I think Alan's legacy is as the last great owner-driver to collect a championship. I don't know if that's enough to get him in this year.

Whether Alan gets in or not, the Underbird and the Atlanta story damn sure need to be in there.
 
In my opinion no, but that's an argument I have no chance in hell of winning, just like Wendell Scott. Both worthy of special recognition, but not Hall of Famers.
 
AK gets in for many reasons with the first being he was a Nascar champ when being one really meant something. Of course his entry into Nascar can never be duplicated and he died young so is those things don't get you in what will?
 
The Hall of Fame doesn't always have to represent what happened as far as the numbers are concerned his story is remarkable it's truly what movies are made of despite the fact he only won five Cup races he is 100% a Hall of Famer in my opinion. Being a champion puts the cherry on top.
 
Where do you draw the line though? Do we elect EVERY sob story to the HoF?
 
If Alan wasn't deceased, he most likely wouldn't even get nominated. I fully understand what kind of person he was, but being a "racer" doesn't make you a Hall of Famer. Never fear, Kulwicki will get in the Hall, just like Davey Allison, Neil Bonnett and probably even Tim Richmond someday. If Richmond hadn't pissed off NASCAR, he'd ALREADY be in.
 
Formerjackman said:
Where do you draw the line though? Do we elect EVERY sob story to the HoF?
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I know where you are coming from as the guy with 4 wins and 1 champ will be in the same place with a guy with 50 wins and a champ who will be in the same place as a guy with 80 wins and and 7champs. Maybe the solution is to have a HOF and within it have room set aside for the elite achievers
 
Formerjackman said:
If Alan wasn't deceased, he most likely wouldn't even get nominated. I fully understand what kind of person he was, but being a "racer" doesn't make you a Hall of Famer. Never fear, Kulwicki will get in the Hall, just like Davey Allison, Neil Bonnett and probably even Tim Richmond someday. If Richmond hadn't pissed off NASCAR, he'd ALREADY be in.
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Another way to look at it is if he was still alive he could have won multiple more wins and championships and got elected into the Hall of Fame sooner.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
I know where you are coming from as the guy with 4 wins and 1 champ will be in the same place with a guy with 50 wins and a champ who will be in the same place as a guy with 80 wins and and 7champs. Maybe the solution is to have a HOF and within it have room set aside for the elite achievers
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The "Roy 'Buckshot' Jones Archive of Mediocrity"
 
If a Simpson episode about softball, has a place in the baseball hall of fame, surely nascar can find a corner in their building to put every season champion, fan favorites, multiple 500 winners, crew chiefs, and people they feel had a positive impact on the sport, including tv/radio commentators, management and engineers for car companies, and drivers that never won, but were ‘trailblazers’
 
If Kulwicki gets in it should be down the line. His 1992 year is a great story but his body of work (5 wins, 75 Top 10s) is rather pedestrian. What makes AK's candidacy is the owner/driver factor (college grad) and the fact he did die as the defending champion so there's the "what if" factor. Before 1992 I remember AK as a smart guy and great qualifier who's engine would usually blow up by half way.
 
I'm all for the Hall of Fame RECOGNIZING as many people as they can, but my standards for an actual Hall of Famer is far above what most people's is. That also means there would likely be some years when NOBODY gets elected, which would be just unpalatable to NASCAR, so we just keep watering down the standards.
 
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Formerjackman said:
I'm all for the Hall of Fame RECOGNIZING as many people as they can, but my standards for a an actual Hall of Famer is far above what most people's is. That also means there would likely be some years when NOBODY gets elected, which would be just unpalatable to NASCAR, so we just keep watering down the standards.
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I think some years you can slant it to "important figures". Most of the major HOF's elect "major contributors" to the sports like broadcasters, journalists, officials, owners etc. I think there's a place in NASCAR's HOF for guys like Ken Squier, Bob Jenkins, Mike Joy, Barney Hall, Bill Brodrick, Chris Economacki, Harold Kinder etc. before you start electing the B list type drivers.
 
Yes, there are plenty of non-drivers worthy of being in the Hall, but even then you have to be careful not to overdo it I'm happy to see some of the great car owners and crew chiefs recognized. I will also give the Hall credit for getting in as many of the older generation as possible while they are still alive to enjoy the honor. The MLB for one has failed at this miserably a few times, Ron Santo being perhaps the most egregious example.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
AK gets in for many reasons with the first being he was a Nascar champ when being one really meant something. Of course his entry into Nascar can never be duplicated and he died young so is those things don't get you in what will?
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So we can make the case for Tim Richmond as well then
 
Great story, but if I were voting, no.

If you want to induct anyone in the Hall of Fame for it to be a feel good story in spite of achievements. Great, don't expect anyone to take being in it seriously. It's no different than the WWE Hall of Fame then where they induct people to fill quotas and based on whether the guy in charge currently likes them.

I went through the list earlier, and 41 of the 45 guys in my opinion would deserve to be in my personal NASCAR Hall of Fame, which is not too bad. Some of the orders of induction make no sense and some appear completely random vs. other people in those fields (e.g. car owners and crew chiefs there's been zero sense or thought to who gets in before others). Alan Kulwicki though, sorry.
 
Formerjackman said:
In my opinion no, but that's an argument I have no chance in hell of winning, just like Wendell Scott. Both worthy of special recognition, but not Hall of Famers.
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Danica Patrick down the road is going to get in with the same line of thinking as Scott.
 
Kulwicki represents the last owner/driver to win the Cup - the end of an era. There have been other owner/drivers after him but they never reached his level of success as an owner/driver.
 
If I had a vote, yes. He did the undoable. Kulwicki had the gumption to drive for himself. He turned down Junior Johnson, and chose to do it his way. And he didn't come in with the road paved for him, he made his own name. Not taking anything away from the Jarretts, Pettys, Allisons, or Earnhardts. They had more help getting to the Cup level based in name recognition alone. AK didn't have any coattails to ride on. He came through the ASA ranks, and he was successful there as well. So, his entire body of work wasn't limited to NASCAR, but he was a true racer at every step of the way. If AK is not HoF material, then what does it take?
 
mack said:
If I had a vote, yes. He did the undoable. Kulwicki had the gumption to drive for himself. He turned down Junior Johnson, and chose to do it his way. And he didn't come in with the road paved for him, he made his own name. Not taking anything away from the Jarretts, Pettys, Allisons, or Earnhardts. They had more help getting to the Cup level based in name recognition alone. AK didn't have any coattails to ride on. He came through the ASA ranks, and he was successful there as well. So, his entire body of work wasn't limited to NASCAR, but he was a true racer at every step of the way. If AK is not HoF material, then what does it take?
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He choose to do it his own way. Kulwicki was stubborn as hell and very hard to work with/for. In some ways it was to his own detriment until the stars aligned in 1992. There's a lot of guys that came up during AK's era that had nothing handed to them. Wallace and Martin also came from the ASA ranks who had to fight and claw with 2nd tier teams to make their names. Between AK and Martin/Roush there must have beeen 30+ blown engines in '88 and '89. I still have vivid memories of smoking streaming from the #6 Stroh's Light and #7 Zerex cars as they sail off into a turn...

Kulwicki, Allison, Irvan and Richmond are all very complex individuals when it comes to their legacies and places in NASCAR history. It's interesting the four them came about around the same time....
 
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mack said:
If I had a vote, yes. He did the undoable. Kulwicki had the gumption to drive for himself. He turned down Junior Johnson, and chose to do it his way. And he didn't come in with the road paved for him, he made his own name. Not taking anything away from the Jarretts, Pettys, Allisons, or Earnhardts. They had more help getting to the Cup level based in name recognition alone. AK didn't have any coattails to ride on. He came through the ASA ranks, and he was successful there as well. So, his entire body of work wasn't limited to NASCAR, but he was a true racer at every step of the way. If AK is not HoF material, then what does it take?
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I'll make a deal with all of you guys. Get James Hylton, in, and I'll give you anybody else you want and never say another word about it.
 
Being suddenly killed less than a year after winning the championship has certainly elevated his status as far as HOF considerations go. I didn't realize he only had 5 Cup wins. I was lucky enough to see one of them ('92 Bristol).
 
MRM said:
Being suddenly killed less than a year after winning the championship has certainly elevated his status as far as HOF considerations go. I didn't realize he only had 5 Cup wins. I was lucky enough to see one of them ('92 Bristol).
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I was at that race also, Earnhardt had a miserable day, went to the Busch race between rain delays.
 
Spotter22 said:
Pisses me off when someone minimizes something they could have or never have done. AK worked his ass off
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Did you know him or work directly with him? Just asking from what I read he was a real hard ass to work for, I believe I read Ray Evernham worked with AK during IROC and said he was one of the hardest people he ever worked for real demanding and a stickler for details. I didnt realize because I was so young at the time, but later began to understand and have great respect for how big of an impact he had at the sport in 1992. A true underdog story, its a shame we didnt get to see what would become of AK and his motorsports team, maybe they'd still be around today if he didnt pass so soon. I believe he was the reason so many drivers during the mid 90's became Owner/Driver's, but he was really the only one that had great success with it.
 
Snappy D said:
Did you know him or work directly with him? Just asking from what I read he was a real hard ass to work for, I believe I read Ray Evernham worked with AK during IROC and said he was one of the hardest people he ever worked for real demanding and a stickler for details. I didnt realize because I was so young at the time, but later began to understand and have great respect for how big of an impact he had at the sport in 1992. A true underdog story, its a shame we didnt get to see what would become of AK and his motorsports team, maybe they'd still be around today if he didnt pass so soon. I believe he was the reason so many drivers during the mid 90's became Owner/Driver's, but he was really the only one that had great success with it.
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I knew him and he was no different then say Bobby Allison. They demanded 100% and when you followed the plan it paid off.
 
Fordracing7 said:
The Hall of Fame doesn't always have to represent what happened as far as the numbers are concerned his story is remarkable it's truly what movies are made of despite the fact he only won five Cup races he is 100% a Hall of Famer in my opinion. Being a champion puts the cherry on top.
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Agreed he inspired many and left a lasting impression, and I think Nascar even adopted some ok Kulwicki's self imposed cost control standards. He had to be judicious with his resources, with pre race tire use etc.
He wasn't just a symbolic underdog, he actually raced against bigger budgets and resources etc.
I think he ran his rookie year with a single chasis, and with two engines that alternated between racing one week, and being refreshed the next.

Disclaimer: The memory may be a little fuzzy with the details but it is close. He definitely pulled off one of the most incredible racing moments ever.
 
As far as AK being hard to work with, to the best if my knowledge none of the top tier drivers have ever been "go along to get along" types. They are competitors to their very core. I remember listening to Sr. Rusty, Gang, and several others on scanners. Suffice it to say they could all be "difficult". To say the least. Kulwicki was an oddity based on the fact he was an engineer. He drive in the era when there were very few very few college educated guys in the entire garage area. He wasn't a "good ol boy". He was a very serious minded person from what I've read. I recall he was the first to get proactive about venting exhaust fumes out of the garage area. The guy was sharp.
 
Greg said:
Agreed he inspired many and left a lasting impression, and I think Nascar even adopted some ok Kulwicki's self imposed cost control standards. He had to be judicious with his resources, with pre race tire use etc.
He wasn't just a symbolic underdog, he actually raced against bigger budgets and resources etc.
I think he ran his rookie year with a single chasis, and with two engines that alternated between racing one week, and being refreshed the next.

Disclaimer: The memory may be a little fuzzy with the details but it is close. He definitely pulled off one of the most incredible racing moments ever.
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Pulled off the Championship in one of the closest battles in history in the last race.
 
Greg said:
Agreed he inspired many and left a lasting impression, and I think Nascar even adopted some ok Kulwicki's self imposed cost control standards. He had to be judicious with his resources, with pre race tire use etc.
He wasn't just a symbolic underdog, he actually raced against bigger budgets and resources etc.
I think he ran his rookie year with a single chasis, and with two engines that alternated between racing one week, and being refreshed the next.

Disclaimer: The memory may be a little fuzzy with the details but it is close. He definitely pulled off one of the most incredible racing moments ever.
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Thats amazing I didnt know that. Thanks! TWO engines the whole year! Holy cow.
 
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