All Electric NASCAR Series on the Horizon

Zerkfitting said:
Electric cars have their place but it isn't the total solution. In the northern part of the country we know the battery is the weakest component in winter. We'll see how people like replacing batteries down the road. There isn't a standard charging port yet. Plus the size of a gas station will need to grow to a Walmart parking lot to charge the same number of cars a gas station services. I think electric cars transfer one form of pollution for another.
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Don't forget the fact that our current electric grid could not handle the demand if the majority of cars in the country were electric. I'm not against electric cars, but there is an awful lot of infrastructure updates and better technology needed that will take decades to get done.
 
West said:
Toyota is coming out with an almost 1K mile range battery next year. There will be little reason for buying gas in years to come. I bought an e-bike last week, as gas up in Vancouver BC is over $8 per gallon (CDN).
www.carscoops.com

Toyota Shows Electric Crown And New Solid-State Batteries With Up To 932 Miles Of Range | Carscoops

Toyota has announced its next-generation of EVs will have significantly improved batteries which are cheaper and boast longer ranges
www.carscoops.com www.carscoops.com
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Actually, it's a 1000k range which is 632 miles, and that is up to ratings, when it's 20 degrees out the batteries don't last as long, turn on the heat and now your at like a 300 mile range.
 
The guy I follow with the Bolt has two different chargers. One is house current 110V and the other is 220V. The 110 goes from flat battery to fully charged in 12 to 14 hours. The 220 takes about 3 to 4 hrs. You would have to really drive a lot to need a full charge every day for the average person. I suppose most of them have regenerative braking, his does so he gets some recharging back when driving.
 
West said:
Toyota is coming out with an almost 1K mile range battery next year. There will be little reason for buying gas in years to come. I bought an e-bike last week, as gas up in Vancouver BC is over $8 per gallon (CDN).
www.carscoops.com

Toyota Shows Electric Crown And New Solid-State Batteries With Up To 932 Miles Of Range | Carscoops

Toyota has announced its next-generation of EVs will have significantly improved batteries which are cheaper and boast longer ranges
www.carscoops.com www.carscoops.com
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Yeah, battery tech is moving forward in leaps and bounds with longer range, faster charging and cheaper pricing.
 
West said:

Batteries With Up To 932 Miles Of Range​

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Ok, they are also working on a 1000km battery and a 1200 km. We will see when they come out and at what cost. Still in real life driving you won't get anywhere near those numbers especially in cold weather.
 
Daytripper said:
Don't forget the fact that our current electric grid could not handle the demand if the majority of cars in the country were electric. I'm not against electric cars, but there is an awful lot of infrastructure updates and better technology needed that will take decades to get done.
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Don't forget that the current electric grid is not going to have to handle the demand of a major increase in the number of EVs any time soon. At the rate of EV growth in the overall automotive fleet, the grid has plenty of time to be updated and augmented.

The electric grid will not have to handle charging of all of the EVs. Many EV owners already charge via their own home solar panels. For example, in CA 30% to 40% of EV owners also have solar panels. These numbers will not scale linearly, but they indicate that home solar charging can be significant.

Most EV owners charge at night, which coincidentally is when demand on the grid tends to be lower. Many power plants shut down or reduce output at night, so that indicates additional capacity available at night. EVs charged during the day can better utilize solar energy.
 
Zerkfitting said:
Electric cars have their place but it isn't the total solution. In the northern part of the country we know the battery is the weakest component in winter. We'll see how people like replacing batteries down the road. There isn't a standard charging port yet. Plus the size of a gas station will need to grow to a Walmart parking lot to charge the same number of cars a gas station services. I think electric cars transfer one form of pollution for another.
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Yes, cold does reduce battery range from 12% to 41% depending on how cold it is and how much electric heating is employed. Makes some EVs more suitable for local driving during the winter... which is the kind of driving most people do on most days.

So far people aren't replacing a lot of batteries. Could be because warrantees are typically eight years / 100,000 miles, could be that we haven't had enough EVs get old enough for this to become a problem. However, by now there are enough EVs that are getting past their warrantees that if this is a real problem we should be hearing about it... and the anti-EV crowd would be making sure we were hearing about it. Realize that, just like repairing a petroleum fueled engine, it is possible to repair battery packs without replacing the whole pack - at at much less cost.

You're correct about no standard charging port yet. However, there are combo ports that can accommodate more than one port style, and many EVs come with adapters. This will shake out as the technology matures and as particular companies take the lead.

Don't expect the gas station style disaster predicted. Most EV owners charge at home so they will only use a gas station style charging depot if they happen to be caught out on the road needing a recharge. Also, chargers are being installed in parking lots of many places - one can find them at shopping malls and restaurants and parks (etc.) so one doesn't have only a gas station type facility as his only option. People without the ability to charge at home will have to go out and find charging stations - they will have to adapt their driving habits. New battery chemistries promise to extend battery range (requiring charging less often) and also promise to charge more quickly.

To some extent, EVs do transfer pollution from one source to another - mostly having to do with charging. Instead of tailpipe emissions we might have more power plant emissions (assuming that one cannot get charging from a greener source such as solar or wind). However, several studies conclude that we end up with less pollutants overall with EVs - even when charged from coal fired plants. And coal is being phased out of the grid anyway.
 
wi_racefan said:
I was just reading about the weight concerns of these new electric cars and it seems to be something very serious that is being overlooked. With the electric motors and batteries these things weigh a lot more than a traditional car and multi story parking structures are not rated to handle this load.
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It's the battery packs that weigh a lot. The rest of the EV, including its motor, weighs less than an equivalent sized ICE vehicle.

EVs, on average, weigh about 19% more than an equivalent sized ICE vehicle.

People should be concerned. Some of the new battery chemistries promise lighter weight... we will see.
 
Daytripper said:
Don't forget the fact that our current electric grid could not handle the demand if the majority of cars in the country were electric. I'm not against electric cars, but there is an awful lot of infrastructure updates and better technology needed that will take decades to get done.
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I do a lot of work at cement plants in TX and CA and they're power restrictions are a lot more than you would think. I can't tell you how many times I've been onsite during hot or cold times and the power company turns off the power to the plant with little to no warning because the grid can't handle it. That's already after most plants are only running the grinding mills at night. The grid needs a lot of work if they plan on charging cars for an complete driving population.
 
I understand the argument that day-to-day maintenance is much cheaper with an EV. But with a couple coolant flushes, a couple transmission drain n' fills, and regular synthetic oil changes, I have a 50/50 shot that my ICE car will last 200k miles without even having to replace a part that's over $500. With an EV it's almost guaranteed that I will need to replace the battery in the 125k-150k mile range or drive around with my range reduced by literally half. And the battery will almost certainly be failed completely by the 200k/15 year mark. Something that many of today's well-maintained ICE cars surpass with ease.
 
wi_racefan said:
Until you have to change the batteries.......
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Please realize that batteries have not been failing in large numbers. Maybe because they are living well past their predicted expiration dates, maybe because there aren't enough EVs that are old enough to get to those expiration dates (yet). The first Tesla Roadsters were delivered in 2008. I happen to know a guy with one - his is still on its original battery pack and he still has about 95% of his original performance. One sample is not enough to call a trend, but just sayin'...

Just like one doesn't have to always replace an ICE if it has problems, one does not have to replace a battery pack if it has problems. Often only a few cells are bad. If the pack does get weak enough to not be suitable for a vehicle, it usually has 75% to 80% of its original capacity left and can be repurposed to another use (such as nonmoving power storage). Junking such a pack would waste resources and money.

If the pack is truly shot, much of it can be recycled. The recycling industry is still in its infancy, partly (and ironically) because there hasn't been enough failed battery packs for it to process yet.
 
wi_racefan said:
I do a lot of work at cement plants in TX and CA and they're power restrictions are a lot more than you would think. I can't tell you how many times I've been onsite during hot or cold times and the power company turns off the power to the plant with little to no warning because the grid can't handle it. That's already after most plants are only running the grinding mills at night. The grid needs a lot of work if they plan on charging cars for an complete driving population.
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Gee, if some EVs were around that were already charged then they could provide power... although expecting EVs to power whole grinding mills or cement p'ants is asking an awful lot...

Yes, you are correct that in industrial situations like those the power grid needs some upgrading. But their power problems are not the faults of EVs.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
I understand the argument that day-to-day maintenance is much cheaper with an EV. But with a couple coolant flushes, a couple transmission drain n' fills, and regular synthetic oil changes, I have a 50/50 shot that my ICE car will last 200k miles without even having to replace a part that's over $500. With an EV it's almost guaranteed that I will need to replace the battery in the 125k-150k mile range or drive around with my range reduced by literally half. And the battery will almost certainly be failed completely by the 200k/15 year mark. Something that many of today's well-maintained ICE cars surpass with ease.
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Where do you find credible sources that say "With an EV it's almost guaranteed that I will need to replace the battery in the 125k-150k mile range or drive around with my range reduced by literally half. And the battery will almost certainly be failed completely by the 200k/15 year mark."?

EV battery packs are projected to last 10 to 20 years / 200,000 miles for average use, 8 to 12 years for extreme use. And that's for current technologies - there are newer technologies that promise better life than that.

Also, why is it tolerable to expect your ICE car to last 200k miles but not tolerate an EV that lasts 200k miles?
 
gone said:
Gee, if some EVs were around that were already charged then they could provide power... although expecting EVs to power whole grinding mills or cement p'ants is asking an awful lot...

Yes, you are correct that in industrial situations like those the power grid needs some upgrading. But their power problems are not the faults of EVs.
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I'm not saying that EV's are the problem, but the current grid is not capable of supporting them on a large scale and cutting out industrial plants isn't really a solution. Without that cement plant there's no houses, airports or roads to drive the EV's on
 
wi_racefan said:
I'm not saying that EV's are the problem, but the current grid is not capable of supporting them on a large scale and cutting out industrial plants isn't really a solution. Without that cement plant there's no houses, airports or roads to drive the EV's on
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I'm saying that EVs are not going to take over quickly enough to take the power grid down. There is plenty of time to upgrade and augment the power grid. And not all EVs will be charged via the power grid anyway.

I am not knocking the importance of cement plants. As I said before, that is a power grid problem that is separate from EV charging. Normally we address high need situations directly, including lines dedicated to industrial areas.
 
wi_racefan said:
I'm not saying that EV's are the problem, but the current grid is not capable of supporting them on a large scale and cutting out industrial plants isn't really a solution. Without that cement plant there's no houses, airports or roads to drive the EV's on
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That's a Texas problem. They chose to unplug from the grid and privatize their energy grid. California for instance is able to power their state on some days using only alternate energy sources, wind, solar, hydroelectric.

  • Of the electricity generated inside the state in 2020, wind generated nearly 42% — up 2% from the year before — saving Oklahoma energy customers $1.2 billion, according to the Oklahoma Power Alliance.
  • Oklahoma produced the third-most wind-generated electricity nationally in the same year, the alliance reports, and it estimates the state’s solar energy potential is ranked sixth best in the nation.
 
Note that petroleum is a finite source, and that we've probably already used up all of the easiest to get (and therefore cheapest) petroleum. This situation is unlikely to get better.

EVs leave petroleum available for other uses, including ICE. Means that the remaining petroleum supply can be extended longer - I can still drive my old muscle car without worrying about the day when gasoline becomes scarce.
 
wi_racefan said:
I was just reading about the weight concerns of these new electric cars and it seems to be something very serious that is being overlooked. With the electric motors and batteries these things weigh a lot more than a traditional car and multi story parking structures are not rated to handle this load.
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This whole electric car BS is just that unadulterated BS. All knee jerk reaction to some crazy climate change money making BS. We have had climate change for millions and millions of years before we even knew what an ICE was. It is called, Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter. Also the earths orbital differentiation in relation to the Sun over time. Don't respond to this and ask about battery operated drills, phones etc. etc., the original NASA trip to the moon gave us all that. I am talking about automobiles and trucks period, you know, the things that make things happen and get done.
 
sdj said:
This whole electric car BS is just that unadulterated BS. All knee jerk reaction to some crazy climate change money making BS. We have had climate change for millions and millions of years before we even knew what an ICE was. It is called, Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter. Also the earths orbital differentiation in relation to the Sun over time. Don't respond to this and ask about battery operated drills, phones etc. etc., the original NASA trip to the moon gave us all that. I am talking about automobiles and trucks period, you know, the things that make things happen and get done.
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LOL, you sure embrace BS...
 
StandOnIt said:
Are you able in Canada to get a rebate/tax break if you purchase an EV. Here in the U.S. some EV's have a 7, 500 tax break at purchase.
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Yes, all kinds of incentives, even on E-bikes. I bought an e-bike last week for $2,000 and the BC Government contributes between $400-$1,400 depending on your net income. Our huge gas prices are caused by Transit taxes in Vancouver.
 
Quite a list of available vehicles for the tax break
2022-2023 Chrysler Pacifica PHEV
2022-2023 Jeep Wrangler PHEV 4xe
2022-2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee PHEV 4xe
2022-2023 Ford F-150 Lightning (standard and extended range)
2022 Ford e-Transit
2022-2023 Ford Mustang Mach-E (standard and extended range)
2022 Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid
2022 Lincoln Corsair Grand Touring
2023 Lincoln Aviator Grand Touring
2022-2023 Chevrolet Bolt
2022-2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV
2023-2024 Cadillac LYRIQ
2024 Chevrolet Silverado EV
2024 Chevrolet Blazer EV
2024 Chevrolet Equinox EV
2022-2023 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range RWD
2022-2023 Tesla Model 3 Performance
2022-2023 Tesla Model Y AWD
2022-2023 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD
2022 Tesla Model Y Performance
2023 Volkswagen ID.4 (all trims)
2023 Rivian R1S
2023 Rivian R1T
 
West said:
Yes, all kinds of incentives, even on E-bikes. I bought an e-bike last week for $2,000 and the BC Government contributes between $400-$1,400 depending on your net income. Our huge gas prices are caused by Transit taxes in Vancouver.
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Those E-bikes are pretty amazing. If I lived urban I would have one.
 
StandOnIt said:
Those E-bikes are pretty amazing. If I lived urban I would have one.
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They are pretty cool, but the batteries have caused a lot of fires here in NYC. The name brands seem to be ok, but a lot of the bootleg batteries have been going on fire while charging and burning down houses and apartments.
 
Daytripper said:
They are pretty cool, but the batteries have caused a lot of fires here in NYC. The name brands seem to be ok, but a lot of the bootleg batteries have been going on fire while charging and burning down houses and apartments.
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True, stop buying cheap 3rd World knock-offs 👍
 
I bought a pretty decent charger that adjusts to the various voltages and no problems. It's for smaller stuff though 2s, 3s and smaller. You can buy fire proof bags to put the batts in for charging.
 
This debate is already showing why keeping the option of e-fuel-powered ICEs is a smart move. We don't know what kind of development will happen with batteries and e-fuels in the next 12 years. I think it's a good idea to continue research and development in both directions. We'll see eventually what technology turns out to be better.
 
donthaveanickname said:
This debate is already showing why keeping the option of e-fuel-powered ICEs is a smart move. We don't know what kind of development will happen with batteries and e-fuels in the next 12 years. I think it's a good idea to continue research and development in both directions. We'll see eventually what technology turns out to be better.
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Most of the anti-EV people are V8 and "stick shift" diehards.

Once manual transmission vehicles with V8 motors are no longer sold, and that'll happen sooner than later, they'll really have no choice. They'll cling to their Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat for as long as they can, but eventually, they'll fold.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
electric vehicles are the future and there’s no stopping that.

NASCAR will adapt.
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I am actually interested in an EV racing series. The best racing series encourage pushing technology to its limit to get a competitive edge. NASCAR has its roots in doing just that.

The problem with “car culture” is that it decided in the 60s and 70s to just stop embracing new technology.
 
2nd anniversary of this topic. No updates from reporters or NASCAR itself beyond the original post. Five pages of speculation and the weighing of pros and cons. Call me when NASCAR says something like "E-Series to premiere at Rockingham, Kentucky, Chicago", preferably in fresh topic.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I am actually interested in an EV racing series. The best racing series encourage pushing technology to its limit to get a competitive edge. NASCAR has its roots in doing just that.

The problem with “car culture” is that it decided in the 60s and 70s to just stop embracing new technology.
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Actually IMO technology is what hurt "car culture". Vehicles became too electronic and the common person couldn't even work on them anymore.

Now when we bring mechanical engineers in for interviews one of my questions is "Where do you take you car to get the oil changed?" And in the last 3 years no has every said they do it themselves.
 
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