All Electric NASCAR Series on the Horizon

The Nature Boy said:
I am actually interested in an EV racing series. The best racing series encourage pushing technology to its limit to get a competitive edge. NASCAR has its roots in doing just that.

The problem with “car culture” is that it decided in the 60s and 70s to just stop embracing new technology.
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FWIW, I'm not all in on EVs, but it has nothing to do with any weird devotion to the V8.

I know these cars have smart chargers and stuff to where they only charge during off-peak hours and stuff, and technology is advancing rapidly.

But I don't think our power grid can handle it yet, and in fact, I think we're a long way off - especially when so many EV skeptics are also opposed to using renewable energy sources to upgrade and enhance the power grid. They're stuck in the 1980s.

I've also seen multiple things about how catastrophic these battery fires can be. Many (most, probably) fire departments aren't equipped to deal with an EV battery fire.

Given that most of the grid is still powered by fossil fuels, I don't see the environmental upside at this time.

And, finally, the cost. Yeah, it's coming down and most EVs aren't expensive as Tesla, but the vast majority of vehicle purchases are used cars. Lower-class and lower-middle-class families are probably close to two decades away (if not more) from being able to buy an EV. Hybrid vehicles have been on the road since the late-90s and they're still a pretty rare sight at used car dealerships.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
FWIW, I'm not all in on EVs, but it has nothing to do with any weird devotion to the V8.

I know these cars have smart chargers and stuff to where they only charge during off-peak hours and stuff, and technology is advancing rapidly.

But I don't think our power grid can handle it yet, and in fact, I think we're a long way off - especially when so many EV skeptics are also opposed to using renewable energy sources to upgrade and enhance the power grid. They're stuck in the 1980s.

I've also seen multiple things about how catastrophic these battery fires can be. Many (most, probably) fire departments aren't equipped to deal with an EV battery fire.

Given that most of the grid is still powered by fossil fuels, I don't see the environmental upside at this time.

And, finally, the cost. Yeah, it's coming down and most EVs aren't expensive as Tesla, but the vast majority of vehicle purchases are used cars. Lower-class and lower-middle-class families are probably close to two decades away (if not more) from being able to buy an EV. Hybrid vehicles have been on the road since the late-90s and they're still a pretty rare sight at used car dealerships.
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The other issue with EV adoption will be renters. If you don’t own your own home, it’s hard to charge your car. Landlords will have to be incentivized to install EV chargers in apartment building parking lots.

I actually think an EV racing series would hurry along innovation. There was a time when the big manufacturers used racing to test new technologies. At this pace though, I think we’ll be a lot farther ahead in 10 years than we can imagine today.

My concerns aren’t with the cars themselves but the infrastructure needed to support them.
 
wi_racefan said:
Actually IMO technology is what hurt "car culture". Vehicles became too electronic and the common person couldn't even work on them anymore.

Now when we bring mechanical engineers in for interviews one of my questions is "Where do you take you car to get the oil changed?" And in the last 3 years no has every said they do it themselves.
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You tried getting at the filter on anything built in the last 15 years? Then there's having to take the oil to a recycling center. Why bother? I can drop it off with my guys, get in an hour of birdwatching, and pick it up. There's plenty of things I still know how to do but that I'd rather spend my time doing something else. Shucking corn leaps to mind.
 
The Nature Boy said:
The other issue with EV adoption will be renters. If you don’t own your own home, it’s hard to charge your car. Landlords will have to be incentivized to install EV chargers in apartment building parking lots.

I actually think an EV racing series would hurry along innovation. There was a time when the big manufacturers used racing to test new technologies. At this pace though, I think we’ll be a lot farther ahead in 10 years than we can imagine today.

My concerns aren’t with the cars themselves but the infrastructure needed to support them.
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Our infrastructure can barely handle today's energy consumption, and that's with the fact that so many modern devices are much more energy efficient than even 10 years ago. Today's smartphones can go 2-3 days without a charge and can be charged up adequately in like 20 minutes. Yet power blackouts are becoming more common and there is evidence EVs are the reason.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
You tried getting at the filter on anything built in the last 15 years? Then there's having to take the oil to a recycling center. Why bother? I can drop it off with my guys, get in an hour of birdwatching, and pick it up. There's plenty of things I still know how to do but that I'd rather spend my time doing something else. Shucking corn leaps to mind.
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Yep. I know how to change the oil in my Corolla, I just choose not to do it.

I once owned a car where half the engine had to be disassembled to change the battery. I actually needed to jump start it one time and you had to remove the coolant/washer fluid reservoir, a few brackets, and unhook a ton of wires just to get to the connectors to jump-start the piece of ****.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
You tried getting at the filter on anything built in the last 15 years? Then there's having to take the oil to a recycling center. Why bother? I can drop it off with my guys, get in an hour of birdwatching, and pick it up. There's plenty of things I still know how to do but that I'd rather spend my time doing something else. Shucking corn leaps to mind.
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Nevermind it being almost pointless with how long oil lasts these days. I could totally understand doing it yourself back when oil changes were needed every 3k-5k miles. Now I'm happy to pay $70-$80 to let someone else do it every 15k.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Our infrastructure can barely handle today's energy consumption, and that's with the fact that so many modern devices are much more energy efficient than even 10 years ago. Today's smartphones can go 2-3 days without a charge and can be charged up adequately in like 20 minutes. Yet power blackouts are becoming more common and there is evidence EVs are the reason.
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Please share the evidence that you have that "blackouts are becoming more common and there is evidence EVs are the reason."

There are plenty of articles fearing that this could happen, but I find none that actually pinpoint EVs as the cause. Instead, blackouts have been caused by aged and poorly maintained infrastructure, increased power consumption in buildings, and accidents / storms. Edison International lists the eight main reasons for blackouts as: 1. Storms 2. Trees 3. Vehicle collisions 4. Earthquakes 5. Animals 6. Lightning 7. Excavation digging 8. High power demand during heatwaves.

There aren't enough EVs to cause blackouts. That would take at least another couple of decades - IF the grid wasn't upgraded by then. It would be very poor planning to ignore that the grid is already strained, and that more demand is coming, yet do nothing.
 
gone said:
Please share the evidence that you have that "blackouts are becoming more common and there is evidence EVs are the reason."

There are plenty of articles fearing that this could happen, but I find none that actually pinpoint EVs as the cause. Instead, blackouts have been caused by aged and poorly maintained infrastructure, increased power consumption in buildings, and accidents / storms. Edison International lists the eight main reasons for blackouts as: 1. Storms 2. Trees 3. Vehicle collisions 4. Earthquakes 5. Animals 6. Lightning 7. Excavation digging 8. High power demand during heatwaves.

There aren't enough EVs to cause blackouts. That would take at least another couple of decades - IF the grid wasn't upgraded by then. It would be very poor planning to ignore that the grid is already strained, and that more demand is coming, yet do nothing.
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Ya just had to do the fact check thing didn't ya. Lol. EV market share is at 6% of sales and the goal is 50% by 2030.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I am actually interested in an EV racing series. The best racing series encourage pushing technology to its limit to get a competitive edge. NASCAR has its roots in doing just that.
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I don't disagree with that. Motorsports has always pioneered new technology but most of the EV stuff we've seen in racing so far is fairly standard. Formula E manufacturers develop their own powertrains and F1 manufacturers also develop their own hybrid technology but IMSA and WRC use standard hybrid components. The all-electric (defunct) ETCR and the Electric Production Car Series that never got going also used spec-powertrains.
 
donthaveanickname said:
How so?
Today's cars consume much less fuel and have way lower emissions of CO2 and other stuff than cars from 50 years ago.
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I am talking about the people who participate in car culture, not the industry itself. There are still a lot of people who fetishize outdated technology and refuse to accept that the industry has moved past their level of comfort.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
You tried getting at the filter on anything built in the last 15 years? Then there's having to take the oil to a recycling center. Why bother? I can drop it off with my guys, get in an hour of birdwatching, and pick it up. There's plenty of things I still know how to do but that I'd rather spend my time doing something else. Shucking corn leaps to mind.
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Yeah I do oil changes on at least 6 different vehicles, all of which are less than 15 years old, on a regular basis (mine and family members). There's nothing hard about it and I'd much rather do it myself so I know its actually done right. There's so many horror stories from the oil change places.

Getting rid of the used oil is no issue for me. Being in the north a lot of shops around us have oil burning furnaces and are more than happy to take all the waste oil you are willing to give them.
 
Would any EV cars be able to last 400 to 600 miles on a single charge at 200mph?
 
SpeedPagan said:
Would any EV cars be able to last 400 to 600 miles on a single charge at 200mph?
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No but in reality it wouldn't be any different than now, you'd just come in and change batteries instead of filling up the gas tank
 
The Nature Boy said:
I am talking about the people who participate in car culture, not the industry itself. There are still a lot of people who fetishize outdated technology and refuse to accept that the industry has moved past their level of comfort.
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I mean I can understand them. There is more excitement to a V8 than a one-liter three-cylinder or an EV.
There is one big advantage to an EV from a car guy standpoint though - the torque is ****** massive with these things.
 
StandOnIt said:
Are you able in Canada to get a rebate/tax break if you purchase an EV. Here in the U.S. some EV's have a 7, 500 tax break at purchase.
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I'm curious how EV sales will develop in my country as changes are being made to our EV bonus system.
At the start of 2023, the bonus for EVs with a price of €65,000 or less was reduced from €5,000-6,000 to €3,000-4,500. The bonus is also no longer available to PHEVs.
From 2024 it will only apply to vehicles with a price of €45,000 or less.

However, what is expected to have the biggest impact is that from September this year the bonus will only be available to private buyers.
 
wi_racefan said:
I'd much rather do it myself so I know its actually done right.
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I can understand that much.

I've been going to the same shop for almost twenty years, father and son. Four years ago I brought in the '05 Elantra, told them I needed to get five more years out of it, and gave them carte blanche to do what was necessary. They called the next day and said it needed plug wires and tires, and that I could get the tires cheaper at Wally.

I had them do both.
 
gone said:
Please share the evidence that you have that "blackouts are becoming more common and there is evidence EVs are the reason."
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LOL. There's a direct correlation.

news.yahoo.com

California's electrical grid has an EV problem

California has set out to become a leader in the green transition, aiming to rid its electrical grid of all carbon sources by 2045. The state is already the nation’s top producer of solar, geothermal, and biomass energy, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, with renewables...
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com

You won't see many articles from neutral sources saying such because there's an agenda.

Quite a few people where I live have bought electric vehicles and, sure enough, power outages are becoming more frequent - even when there isn't a weather event (heat wave, cold snap, severe weather) that knocks out power or causes a spike in demand.

If you live in a town of 15,000 people where there are already electricity problems, and suddenly you have 1,000 people plugging Teslas in every night, of course power blackouts are more common.
 
gone said:
There aren't enough EVs to cause blackouts. That would take at least another couple of decades - IF the grid wasn't upgraded by then. It would be very poor planning to ignore that the grid is already strained, and that more demand is coming, yet do nothing.
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There are in California, which already has a strained power grid.

The national power grid is already strained and we have one major party that wants to do nothing to modernize it.
 
The $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill includes $65 billion for upgrading the electric grid. This is a long overdue investment: the grid, which consists of more than 7,300 power plants, 160,000 miles of high-voltage power lines, and millions of low-voltage power lines, has parts that are more than a century old and was recently given a C- score by the American Society of Civil Engineers. That’s not the post-it-on-the-refrigerator grade you’d expect from the largest economy in the world.
www.ase.org

Here’s how the infrastructure bill improves the grid

When the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act was signed into law by President Biden earlier this month, it marked the largest investment in U.S. infrastructure in more than a generation. But while previous historic investments such as Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal or Eisenhower’s Federal...
www.ase.org www.ase.org
 
Charlie Spencer said:
And if the utilities would maintain their rights of way, they could reduce the second one.
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Try cutting a tree in the EV capital of Connecticut!! :dual9mm:

The mega rich Libs don't care if you are out of power. They can still charge their conscious cleaning EV with their big ol' diesel generator.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
LOL. There's a direct correlation.

news.yahoo.com

California's electrical grid has an EV problem

California has set out to become a leader in the green transition, aiming to rid its electrical grid of all carbon sources by 2045. The state is already the nation’s top producer of solar, geothermal, and biomass energy, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, with renewables...
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com

You won't see many articles from neutral sources saying such because there's an agenda.

Quite a few people where I live have bought electric vehicles and, sure enough, power outages are becoming more frequent - even when there isn't a weather event (heat wave, cold snap, severe weather) that knocks out power or causes a spike in demand.

If you live in a town of 15,000 people where there are already electricity problems, and suddenly you have 1,000 people plugging Teslas in every night, of course power blackouts are more common.
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Once again, this is a prediction - not a measure of EV impacts today. It also talks about how improvements to the grid could compensate.

Reading articles with bias indicates one's own agenda.

Thought you lived in the Carolinas, like I do. I haven't heard of more frequent power outages blamed on EVs - the only unusual power outages I've heard of were due to saboteurs shooting up substations.

"Suddenly you have 1,000 people plugging Teslas in every night" is absurd. EV adoption is going at such a slow pace that there is time to upgrade the grid. Charging a Tesla consumes less than running your air conditioning all day and night - and almost everybody has air conditioning, while few have a Tesla.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
There are in California, which already has a strained power grid.

The national power grid is already strained and we have one major party that wants to do nothing to modernize it.
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In California they are not blaming power blackout on EVs. They are blaming an aging electricity grid that hasn't kept up with a changing climate and evolving demands from utility customers.

Agree that one major party doesn't want to modernize the power grid, but they will change their minds when they figure out how to capitalize on it...
 
gone said:
Once again, this is a prediction - not a measure of EV impacts today. It also talks about how improvements to the grid could compensate.

Reading articles with bias indicates one's own agenda.
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We're already there though, with the power grid. You're plugging these things in, it's common sense.

As I said before, the media and the sci/tech community have an agenda to push. They're not going to say what everybody knows is happening because it's going to cause unserious people to say we should ban electric vehicles and double down on our reliance on oil and coal.

We're having our coolest summer in YEARS here at the coast with much less A/C use, yet power outages are becoming more frequent. Hmm.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
We're already there though, with the power grid. You're plugging these things in, it's common sense.

As I said before, the media and the sci/tech community have an agenda to push. They're not going to say what everybody knows is happening because it's going to cause unserious people to say we should ban electric vehicles and double down on our reliance on oil and coal.

We're having our coolest summer in YEARS here at the coast with much less A/C use, yet power outages are becoming more frequent. Hmm.

It's just like COVID ... "The vaccine prevents COVID." ... "Well, ****, we can't admit it doesn't because then the COVID deniers will do a victory lap."
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off topic nonsense. Billions are being invested by the Automakers and battery manufacturers in EV's
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
And billions upon billions upon billions need to be invested into our power grid to handle it.
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sounds like you have a problem. The sky is not falling. I don't think you have been keeping current
Key word... Invested
  • GM will invest $35 billion globally in EV and AVs through 2025.
  • $2.3 billion invested in a Lordstown, Ohio plant to mass-produce Ultium battery cells9 through the formation of Ultium Cells LLC, a joint venture with LG Energy Solution. The plant will create more than 1,100 new jobs.
  • $2.3 billion invested in a Spring Hill, Tennessee facility through Ultium Cells LLC, to build its second battery cell manufacturing plant in the U.S. The plant will create 1,300 new jobs.
  • $2.2 billion to retool Factory ZERO, formerly Detroit-Hamtramck. Factory ZERO is our first plant that is 100 percent devoted to EVs and once fully operational, it will create more than 2,200 jobs.
  • $2 billion invested in the Spring Hill, Tennessee assembly plant in October 2020 to begin its transition to become our third vehicle manufacturing site to produce electric vehicles. The plant supports 3,200 jobs.
  • $4 billion invested in the Orion Township, Michigan assembly plant to produce the Chevrolet Bolt EV, Bolt EUV, Cruise AV test vehicles, Chevrolet Silverado, and GMC Electric Sierra, bringing 2,350 new jobs. In total, the plant supports 3,450 jobs.
  • $40M investment in Pontiac Stamping for the installation of Flexible Fabrication manufacturing to support future electric vehicles and various product applications.
  • $28 million invested to expand GM’s battery testing lab in Warren, Michigan. It is the largest, most advanced battery test lab in America for over a decade.

Site Maintenance

www.gm.com
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
We're already there though, with the power grid. You're plugging these things in, it's common sense.

As I said before, the media and the sci/tech community have an agenda to push. They're not going to say what everybody knows is happening because it's going to cause unserious people to say we should ban electric vehicles and double down on our reliance on oil and coal.

We're having our coolest summer in YEARS here at the coast with much less A/C use, yet power outages are becoming more frequent. Hmm.
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Still waiting for a credible source for "we're already there though".

Odd how you claim the media has an agenda to push, although you are part of the media. Hurts your argument to point a finger at oneself.
If the sci/tech community has an agenda to push, it is to improve technology and its effects upon people and the planet. Not saying that everybody is perfect, but Dr. Evil exists mainly in sci-fi movies.

Still not hearing about, or experiencing, frequent power outages in the Carolinas. Hmmm... hope you don't assume that whatever weather exists in your neighborhood must be simultaneously happening all over the rest of the world, too.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Most of the anti-EV people are V8 and "stick shift" diehards.

Once manual transmission vehicles with V8 motors are no longer sold, and that'll happen sooner than later, they'll really have no choice. They'll cling to their Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat for as long as they can, but eventually, they'll fold.
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Toyota is going to be making a "manual" (sort of) transmission available for diehards who want one. I like shifting but I think I'd pass on this one.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/16/business/toyota-manual-transmission-electric-cars/index.html

>>...For those who find electric cars a bit boring, Toyota engineers are working on a realistic-feeling fake manual transmission as a possible feature.

To be clear, a manual transmission on an electric car would serve absolutely no purpose. It would be just for fun, an add-on for people who like shifting gears in their gasoline-powered cars...<<
 
Tumbleweed said:
Toyota is going to be making a "manual" (sort of) transmission available for diehards who want one. I like shifting but I think I'd pass on this one.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/16/business/toyota-manual-transmission-electric-cars/index.html

>>...For those who find electric cars a bit boring, Toyota engineers are working on a realistic-feeling fake manual transmission as a possible feature.

To be clear, a manual transmission on an electric car would serve absolutely no purpose. It would be just for fun, an add-on for people who like shifting gears in their gasoline-powered cars...<<
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People who find electric cars boring have either not driven a modern one, or have not driven one at all.

There actually are a couple of good reasons an EV might have a transmission, although they produce enough torque to not really need one.
1. Reverse gear. Can save some wiring, contactors and other electrical devices if the transmission provides reverse instead of having the electronics reverse the power applied to the motor.
2. Battery range. Although electric motors have a pretty flat and broad torque curve, they do have a "sweet spot" loading range where they are most efficient. That can extend battery range somewhat. However, EVs only need a couple of gears to do this.
 
They talked a little about this during the State of the Sport address last week, an EV test at Martinsville is supposed to happen next month with a possible reveal in early 2024.

 
FLRacingFan said:
They talked a little about this during the State of the Sport address last week, an EV test at Martinsville is supposed to happen next month with a possible reveal in early 2024.

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I wonder if this is the "leaked" image I saw this on Facebook completely unsourced

FB_IMG_1699656179908.jpg
 
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