article: How NASCAR can get fans to return and retain them

Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, we all have our ideas on why people LEFT. Regardless, they're gone, ship sailed, horse out of the barn, etc.

Any suggestions on how to either get the old ones back or attract new ones? Are any major changes going to have to wait until the current TV and track contracts expire?
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I think Nascar needs to determine its target audience first and then determine what they want to see. Actual research would need to be done by a reputable company. No Twitter poles or making sweeping changes based on an All Star event.

While not all of the nosedive can be blamed on Nascar a good portion of it can. Nascar has goofed up and misread what people want with most of its initiatives.

Nascar has given us bandaids and gimmicks the last several years. It is time to stop this nonsense and instead plan your work and then work your plan.
 
DIDIT said:
Sorry I can't offer a solid suggestion to get these fans back. NASCAR is not any different than most any sports team. If the local high school football team is undefeated people come out in droves to see the game. The next season when they are win less, the stands are empty. It is just human nature to be where the "in crowd" is, unless you are a hard core fan. When we used to tailgate at Charlotte, back in the day, there were times when we would have 15 - 18 folks come. Some from a long ways away. There were always and still are about 4 of us that were the hardcore fans that have stuck it out. Those other 11 - 14 people are long gone and have moved on to something else that they enjoy. I think we all keep looking at what NASCAR changed that caused these folks to leave and the playoffs are an easy scapegoat.
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We used to have a large group that went to races and watched races together. This group formed in the 80’s and started to thin out once the chase came in and by the second full year of the CoT it was down to less than 5 people.

These people are all in their late 50’s to around 70 now and they have no interest in coming back. To the best of my knowledge none of the kids or grandkids has any interest in Nascar.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Are any major changes going to have to wait until the current TV and track contracts expire?
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Real changes ........ Yes. Band aids will continue because no one has the will to do more
or contractually they can't.
What we are doing is asking 3 questions in one so the problem will persist.
Question #1. How can we improve the television experience so that old fans will continue to watch. This is important because they need a larger audience to continue getting a large fee for the TV rights. The participants should designate the number of years watching 36 races, 26 races, 16 races or less than 5.
Question #2. How can we improve television coverage to attract NEW Fans? This is important because they will need to replace the older fans at some point.
Question #3. What type of tracks do fans who attend races prefer? (list the types and allow fans to make 2 or 3 choices in order of preference). This is important because why support tracks no one wants to attend?
Question #4. Should Nascar have control over the television program and contents ( not the commercials). YES or NO

I would really like to see this set up here on the forum as a test if someone likes to do these things. (hint hint)
 
IanMcVittie said:
I think Nascar needs to determine its target audience first and then determine what they want to see.
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WHY? Why should they target only one type of fan? Nascar need to produce a product that will entertain at least 4 groups of people.
 
Team Penske said:
I would really like to see this set up here on the forum as a test if someone likes to do these things. (hint hint)
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I'm with the rest of your post, but I don't see any reason to set up a poll here. First, it would be unscientific. The audience is already biased in favor of racing or we wouldn't be on a racing forum in the first place. Second, the results aren't going to be looked at by anyone with the authority to act on them. Why bother?

It would just be another opportunity for people to vent. We have plenty of those already.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm with the rest of your post, but I don't see any reason to set up a poll here. First, it would be unscientific. The audience is already biased in favor of racing or we wouldn't be on a racing forum in the first place. Second, the results aren't going to be looked at by anyone with the authority to act on them. Why bother?

It would just be another opportunity for people to vent. We have plenty of those already.
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Your probably 100% right. However we do have those who claim they gave up watching races
and probably those who quit attending races. If they could answer without the bull****
that goes with it we could have a small sample. Who ever sets this up would have to retain the ability to delete posts.
 
Team Penske said:
WHY? Why should they target only one type of fan? Nascar need to produce a product that will entertain at least 4 groups of people.
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I don’t think that 1 fan group to the exclusion of others should be chosen. I do think there should be a focus on a primary group though. Nascar would probably be better off will 1 million young fans than 5 million in the current age group.
 
Team Penske said:
Your probably 100% right. However we do have those who claim they gave up watching races
and probably those who quit attending races. If they could answer without the bull****
that goes with it we could have a small sample. Who ever sets this up would have to retain the ability to delete posts.
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I know I quit going to races because the time involved compared to the value I received didn’t add up. Just like I am not going to Chicago, New York or Toronto to see a hockey game because the dollars spent don’t equal value for me.

I still watch a lot of races but I skip some entirely and bail out on others. I normally see just about all the races up until the World 600 and then it is hit and miss afterward. I think the season is far too long.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm with the rest of your post, but I don't see any reason to set up a poll here. First, it would be unscientific. The audience is already biased in favor of racing or we wouldn't be on a racing forum in the first place. Second, the results aren't going to be looked at by anyone with the authority to act on them. Why bother?

It would just be another opportunity for people to vent. We have plenty of those already.
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I've heard the word "unscientific" used by a number of posters whenever a survey comes out, I suspect they don't agree with the findings most of the time. In this particular survey the results were compiled from the most common answers that the respondents posted. Unless some of the respondents changed their log in handles and re-posted the same answer, the survey was pretty accurate. None of these surveys by Nascar or others use the actual "scientific method" of testing that consists of the double blind process and manipulating a varaible to obtain results because it wouldn't work in this case. The survey fields in Gluck surveys are large enough compared to anything that could be generated here in comparison to be pretty accurate especially in the age category, Gluck's respondents as a rule trend younger.
 
I am not sure what they can do really, its above my pay grade. But I'll speculate anyhow. First you have to know what you're targeting. Are you going after new fans at the risk of alienating what was left of your once great fan base in a rebuilding of the fanbase so to speak or are your going to salvage whats left and build around those hardcore fans while attracting newer fans? Thats the problem I think they have the powers that be apply short term band-aids ( Chase, Chase II, Chase III, Playoff System 1, Playoff System 2, stages, various changes to the start times of races, and so on an for forth) that they are quick to change while not having a long term vision in mind. The TV presentation needs so much work, especially the NBC Side. It comes off as so corny and forced with their storylines, shouting announcers, their flubbing play by play announcer, a front stretch interview as the driver waits while the Tundra drives up with the goofy hipster in tow and the hipster in the infield reporting on God knows what. The thing is its not hard to make a great presentation for the at home fan..... its realizing that the racing and drivers themselves are the storyline! Build your Sundays around that... interview the drivers (in depth), crew chiefs, and owners. They can really mold the next generation of fans with the current youth movement we have going, there is no reason to go to some hipster during a race for a infield report. I dont care and its insulting to people who tune in to watch the actual race or what little we have when there is a commercial every 5-10 laps. NASCAR can do so much with streaming.... I'd pay for a streaming network that shows old races in full, a weekly show that breaks down past week's race with a driver of the week as analyst ( I know we have that) , shows live races w/o commercials, a Hard Knocks style show that features a inside look at drivers ( or particular driver) for a half or full season... pretty much what goes on during a NASCAR season as a full time driver ( I'd watch that in a heartbeat.) I am sure some have better ideas than I do and I wont go into a points system change, tracks ( thats another one what gets me..... what tracks are you going to go to that you arnt at already?) or manufacturer. Those have been beaten to death by myself here ( points change) and others. I think TV and presentation is a unique item that NASCAR can improve ( Their website has been a dumpster fire for how long now?) to rely attract/retain fans.
 
StandOnIt said:
I've heard the word "unscientific" used by a number of posters whenever a survey comes out, I suspect they don't agree with the findings most of the time. In this particular survey the results were compiled from the most common answers that the respondents posted. Unless some of the respondents changed their log in handles and re-posted the same answer, the survey was pretty accurate. None of these surveys by Nascar or others use the actual "scientific method" of testing that consists of the double blind process and manipulating a varaible to obtain results because it wouldn't work in this case. The survey fields in Gluck surveys are large enough compared to anything that could be generated here in comparison to be pretty accurate especially in the age category, Gluck's respondents as a rule trend younger.
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JMO but if I was conducting any type of survey for Nascar I would either exclude people over 50 or toss answers of people over 50. Nascar has the 50 and over market covered, smothered and capped.
 
StandOnIt said:
I've heard the word "unscientific" used by a number of posters whenever a survey comes out, I suspect they don't agree with the findings most of the time. In this particular survey the results were compiled from the most common answers that the respondents posted. Unless some of the respondents changed their log in handles and re-posted the same answer, the survey was pretty accurate. None of these surveys by Nascar or others use the actual "scientific method" of testing that consists of the double blind process and manipulating a varaible to obtain results because it wouldn't work in this case. The survey fields in Gluck surveys are large enough compared to anything that could be generated here in comparison to be pretty accurate especially in the age category, Gluck's respondents as a rule trend younger.
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Just for clarification, I was referring specifically to Team Penske's suggestion for a poll here on Racing Forums.

As to Gluck's poll, his audience may be fine for answering why existing fans watch or attend races. That same audience isn't going to be much use answer what it will take to get new fans on board; they won't be responding since they don't know the guy from RCR's third backup tire carrier. I don't even know how much value they'd bring to answer what would bring lost fans back; I doubt people who quit following a sport would continue to visit Internet content dedicated to it.

Those former or potential new fans are the ones a scientific poll would reach. NASCAR needs to pony up the bucks and find out what non-believers think about the sport.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Just for clarification, I was referring specifically to Team Penske's suggestion for a poll here on Racing Forums.

As to Gluck's poll, his audience may be fine for answering why existing fans watch or attend races. That same audience isn't going to be much use answer what it will take to get new fans on board; they won't be responding since they don't know the guy from RCR's third backup tire carrier. I don't even know how much value they'd bring to answer what would bring lost fans back; I doubt people who quit following a sport would continue to visit Internet content dedicated to it.

Those former or potential new fans are the ones a scientific poll would reach. NASCAR needs to pony up the bucks and find out what non-believers think about the sport.
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This is a tiny sample size but the people I know won’t come back because the product is not something they find worthwhile. Another thing is because they are mad. The reason is because they were fans long before Nascar was cool and supported the series. Once the yuppie invasion took place they felt like they were thrown overboard. Nascar burned many bridges
 
I wonder how much of the fall off is due to the amount of commercials that the TV audience is now forced to sit through to watch a race? It is one of the reasons that I enjoy the 2 hour replay of the race that gets run the next day after a race. The boring parts of the race are cut out and I do NOT have to sit through all the commercials.
 
IanMcVittie said:
JMO but if I was conducting any type of survey for Nascar I would either exclude people over 50 or toss answers of people over 50. Nascar has the 50 and over market covered, smothered and capped.
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I disagree with you entirely. I have been a fan of Nascar racing since late 80's. I am 75 now and still watch every race (that is broadcast here) in all 3 series. Mind you I have to pre-record them.
I still buy sponsor products if given the choice of equal products. I think there are still many fans like myself over 50 that have greater value to Nascar than the young people who are looking at cell phones.
 
Towmater said:
I wonder how much of the fall off is due to the amount of commercials that the TV audience is now forced to sit through to watch a race? It is one of the reasons that I enjoy the 2 hour replay of the race that gets run the next day after a race. The boring parts of the race are cut out and I do NOT have to sit through all the commercials.
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Commercial times per hour here in Canada are controlled by the government and I believe the limit is 17 minutes. Nascar broadcasters have gotten around the law with this side by side deal.
 
Not sure what your point is. My viewing displeasure has to do with the amount of commercials and that's what my post was about. I have friends that no longer watch the races due to the amount of ads coming at them.
 
Team Penske said:
Commercial times per hour here in Canada are controlled by the government and I believe the limit is 17 minutes. Nascar broadcasters have gotten around the law with this side by side deal.
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Is that what that's about? I wish they'd just put the entire race in a box taking up 3/4th of the screen in the upper left and run ads on the right and at the bottom the entire time.
 
Towmater said:
I wonder how much of the fall off is due to the amount of commercials that the TV audience is now forced to sit through to watch a race? It is one of the reasons that I enjoy the 2 hour replay of the race that gets run the next day after a race. The boring parts of the race are cut out and I do NOT have to sit through all the commercials.
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To my knowledge none of the sources that have thoroughly tracked commercial time during NASCAR broadcasts, whether it be Jayski or the old cawsnjaws site or elsewhere, have shown a marked increase in commercial minutes per race since the mid-2000's ratings heyday. If you can find any analysis that states otherwise, please correct the record. I would suggest picking three or four races and comparing the breakdowns that are available at intervals from 2001 to 2018, with a focus on the peak years from 2003-2006 vs. the heavy decline years from 2015 to present.

I have considerable doubt that reality will affect your 'wondering' about your personal pet peeves. But it's worth a shot.

To put it differently, no, large numbers of people didn't stop watching because of an imagined, nonexistent rise in the amount of commercial interruptions.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, we all have our ideas on why people LEFT. Regardless, they're gone, ship sailed, horse out of the barn, etc.

Any suggestions on how to either get the old ones back or attract new ones? Are any major changes going to have to wait until the current TV and track contracts expire?
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The governing structure prevents any real change until all that TV money stops coming in. Then NASCAR goes the way of Indycar.

Note: That's not a base thing. Indy racing was really good to watch last year, and the tickets were super cheap.
 
Towmater said:
I'm so glad the ignore feature works as well as it does!
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Obviously. If only there were a similar function that could allow you to ignore those delusional friends who tell you that they've stopped watching races that they formerly watched due to an increase in commercials, when in fact there has been no measurable significant increase. It could even lead to becoming better informed.
 
Towmater said:
Not sure what your point is. My viewing displeasure has to do with the amount of commercials and that's what my post was about. I have friends that no longer watch the races due to the amount of ads coming at them.
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And my point was they are allowed 17 min per hour NOT just Nascar.
 
sloggie said:
The governing structure prevents any real change until all that TV money stops coming in. Then NASCAR goes the way of Indycar.

Note: That's not a base thing. Indy racing was really good to watch last year, and the tickets were super cheap.
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I have started watching IndyCar more and I have liked it. IDK if Nascar will take a huge hit on its next broadcast deal but if so a lot will change.
 
Man I forgot about the COT....yeah, it was pretty hard to watch as I didn’t identify with those ugly cars at all. Even though I always knew the Thunderbird on the track was nothing like the one I could buy, I still supported those drivers.

But that wing....ugh. Felt like I was watching those stupid looking tuner cars.
 
2 Sweet said:
Change just for the sake of change, especially when not well thought out, is a disaster waiting to happen. "If it aint broke, don't fix it."

I have talked to a lot of former fans that just aren't into it anymore. There's a common theme among them....they all hate the playoffs. Look at what we have now, the Homestead Cup, which is the 8th variation of the playoffs since 2004. They kept throwing sh!t at the wall to see what sticks because they were too stupid to think anything through, rinse and repeat. Well just wait until the year when you have two contenders crash out early at Miami, see another suffer a mechanical failure, then watch as the least qualified member of the Final 4 (some guy who led 30 laps all season with only a few top 5's) coasts to a "championship" when they finish 12th.
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I like the playoffs. Even though I do fear your scenario that someone completely undeserving could be champ, hard to argue when they survive 3 other rounds before. So I’d say it’s not likely.
 
StandOnIt said:
And I believe many Sr fans went with Jr. but after Jr (sorry Jr fans) failed to be the next hard running villain like his dad many of those faded away. Nascar had peaked, and during that period here comes the ridiculous COT for many of us.
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I’m sure many Sr fans left when he passed, and probably replaced with people noticing the danger his death alerted them to. And if the one’s that jumped on his sons bandwagon jumped off because he drove clean and didn’t win as much, says a lot about them as fans too. Some people are honk if they jump on winning bandwagons, it makes them winners too.....
 
Charlie Spencer said:
There are a whole lot more amateurs playing golf than racing cars. Also, golf sponsors tend to be companies trying to reach upscale customers, so they know they're after a relatively small audience.
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Bingo. The ad dollars are massive in golf because the sponsors are all high end brands
 
Ford 222 said:
I like the playoffs. Even though I do fear your scenario that someone completely undeserving could be champ, hard to argue when they survive 3 other rounds before. So I’d say it’s not likely.
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Look up Ryan Newman's stats in 2014. Four top 5's and led 30 laps all season. He was ONE(!) point away from winning the championship. Had that happened, I'm willing to bet Brian France and his clowns would have changed the format yet again.

I'm glad you and others like the playoffs. At this point I just wish they would stop changing stuff all the time without thinking things through. These constant knee jerk reactions with little to no forethought is what's hurting the sport.
 
2 Sweet said:
Look up Ryan Newman's stats in 2014. Four top 5's and led 30 laps all season. He was ONE(!) point away from winning the championship. Had that happened, I'm willing to bet Brian France and his clowns would have changed the format yet again.

I'm glad you and others like the playoffs. At this point I just wish they would stop changing stuff all the time without thinking things through. These constant knee jerk reactions with little to no forethought is what's hurting the sport.
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I believe that was before they started awarding stage points that carried over. I think they did change it.
 
Team Penske said:
And my point was they are allowed 17 min per hour NOT just Nascar.
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OK, so you like the commercials or dislike them? I ask as about 20% of the airtime of a race is devoted to commercials. Sometimes more sometimes less. The Coke Zero 400 in 2016 averaged 24.74%. That's almost 1 minute out of every 4 minutes during that telecast.
 
Towmater said:
OK, so you like the commercials or dislike them? I ask as about 20% of the airtime of a race is devoted to commercials. Sometimes more sometimes less. The Coke Zero 400 in 2016 averaged 24.74%. That's almost 1 minute out of every 4 minutes during that telecast.
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Source of your statistic, please.
 
Towmater said:
OK, so you like the commercials or dislike them? I ask as about 20% of the airtime of a race is devoted to commercials. Sometimes more sometimes less. The Coke Zero 400 in 2016 averaged 24.74%. That's almost 1 minute out of every 4 minutes during that telecast.
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I tape every show I watch including racing and curling so I never have to watch commercials at any time. I have allowed a commercial to play while at the John. :D
 
2 Sweet said:
Look up Ryan Newman's stats in 2014. Four top 5's and led 30 laps all season. He was ONE(!) point away from winning the championship. Had that happened, I'm willing to bet Brian France and his clowns would have changed the format yet again.

I'm glad you and others like the playoffs. At this point I just wish they would stop changing stuff all the time without thinking things through. These constant knee jerk reactions with little to no forethought is what's hurting the sport.
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Good point....I think the bonus points have ensured that the top 3 running up front and winning stages will make the final 4 since the bonus points carry over. I'm not crazy about it but it does reward the ones leading laps and going for the wins. I guess its still possible for someone to just point their way to a title. JL this year didn't have the year the top 3 had but he performed when he needed to. And it was pretty exciting...
 
NASCAR points formula

turns the racing season into a Pacman game. Just run around eating up points.

NASCAR changed the rules to keep the drivers motivated throughout the race and season, striving for more on-track conflict and contact, as the teams would be incentivized to race aggressively throughout each event in order to grab available points.
 
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