Attention NASCAR : Listen to your fans !

Danny Ray Bennett said:
Auto racing should be all about racing on the race track.
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I agree with this. I hate the pit road stuff. So much attention and technology designed to penalize drivers....and then there is that arm's length rule.....
 
Danny Ray Bennett said:
For the most part, most of NASCAR Monster Energy series, former Grand Nationals,
1) are 3,4, 5, and sometimes longer bor-a-thons.
2) Nascar brags about races being won in the pits by one team having a split second faster pit stop. In the past it was due to crews either leaving some lug nuts loose, or just leaving them off. The pits area was never built for racing, crews are just inches away from cars doing 55 mph. NASCAR is endangering crew members lives.
It also appears to me that some drivers do not get caught speeding on pit road when it sure looks like they are going faster than the other cars around them.
3) Phantom Caution flag laps that seem to benefit certain drivers and teams.
4) Terrible announcers
5) Too much time watching the leader way out front while other cars are racing side by side for positions.
6) The new drivers are shrinking, they are getting shorter and lighter because Nascar weighs the cars without the drivers, meaning the lightest drivers get an advantage.
7) These cars with the wraps look terrible. Look at the popularity of the throw back paint schemes.
8) Freight train racing, The car rules are getting better but still these cars spend too much time in the wind tunnel. Aerodynamics allows the lead car a huge advantage. Drivers are afraid to get the slightest ding in their car at the super speedways as it will slow them down. Not enough passing for the lead, most lead changes come from cars pitting and giving up the lead.
9) Unfair restarts, usually a track will have a preferred lane ( groove) either the inside or outside, a driver that is running 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, etc are all forced into the slower lane. Nascar needs to go to the Delaware Restart System and allow cars on the lead lap to decide in order which lane they want to start in.
10) Lower car counts. Go back to at least 43 car fields, even if it means allowing some Start and Park teams that are under financed and are trying to get some experience .
11) Tires are playing too big a role in racing, Nascar needs to limit the number of tires a team can use during a race, tire management would be more important than the ability to buy more tires than anyone else.
Once a tire is produced it starts aging and getting harder, deciding which teams gets the newest, freshest, softest made tires is a huge advantage and an unfair advantage.
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Great ideas! You should have posted these before now. Oh wait....
 
Danny Ray Bennett said:
* Yes I do, are you saying all tires are exactly the same, no variance what so ever ? NASCAR has stated that sometimes it takes months to build the tires for certain tracks, are you saying you would prefer the oldest ones? I'll take the freshest. I once made a trip with the local Hoosier tire distributor in Louisville to Indy and purchased a set of 4 tires for a certain driver, even though the speed shop had lots of tires. Why I asked, a big paying race was coming up and the local star driver wanted "fresh" tires . What would you think about that ?
Thank you reading and replying .
I am not complaining, I am just being honest.
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Goodyear does not “save” the most recently manufactured tires for certain teams. Teams present their cleaned and prepared wheels and their tires are mounted and balanced in the order they come off the truck.

Aging certainly does cause the tread rubber to harden. It takes a long time and takes longer when tires are not stored in a climate controlled environment. I think the manufacturer understands this. Tire specialists are focused on the spring rate of each tire ... figure shows on the sticker. The spring rate is the most important element of "matching" tires. I know these things due in part to the fact that I have purchased more race tires than you have had hot meals.
 
aunty dive said:
Goodyear does not “save” the most recently manufactured tires for certain teams. Teams present their cleaned and prepared wheels and their tires are mounted and balanced in the order they come off the truck.

Aging certainly does cause the tread rubber to harden. It takes a long time and takes longer when tires are not stored in a climate controlled environment. I think the manufacturer understands this. Tire specialists are focused on the spring rate of each tire ... figure shows on the sticker. The spring rate is the most important element of "matching" tires. I know these things due in part to the fact that I have purchased more race tires than you have had hot meals.
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matched and staggered special. I know you can hold it!!!!

;)
 
I always thought it was interesting to see how much it paid to win the Grand National ( Monster Energy) events. I also liked to see what each position paid.
So why did NASCAR decide not to disclose that info any more ?
NASCAR seems to be doing a whole lot of changes , and we are talking BIG money, like buying the tracks, and also buying ARCA.
One has to think that the reason NASCAR is buying the tracks is to make sure that another series starts booking dates at those tracks.
I wrote about an idea that I had that with the right group of people, lots of money, could buy ARCA and create a schedule to compete against NASCAR.
It sounds odd but remember back when the A.S.A. American Speed Association had grown to the point of competing against NASCAR.
It makes sense in a way, NASCAR is loosing it's fan base and losing TV ratings. I am guessing that the advertiser and sponsorship money is tied in with these ratings. It really is bad business to see so many empty seats at most of these tracks. Even after many tracks removing tens of thousands of seats.
I have followed NASCAR for many years and in my opinion, they are all about the money. That's not all bad, but there has to be some balance between offering a good product and pricing.
Sure it is easy to jack up ticket prices, concession prices souvenir prices when the place is packed, but what happens when the attendance starts dropping off ? Raise the prices to maintain that nice profit margin ?
That would be short term profits vs long term strategy.
Milk it dry is not a good business model !
Like any large company it is slow to react to a changing business climate and if one has their prime directive of creating huge profit margins then a company may find itself in real trouble if their decisions lead them down the wrong path.
I remember some years back Nascar announcer, former driver and National Champion, Benny Parsons was talking about how NASCAR was changing and losing many of their long term fans, he was saying that Nascars state of mind is that if the changes brought in more new spectators than the ones leaving, Nacar considered that growth. And Nascar continued to grow, advertising that it was the fastest growing spectator sport in the country. But now where have all the "loyal" Nascar fans gone ?
Now Nascar is facing a tough time, how to get your fan base back and how to draw new fans ?
In my opinion, Nascar got greedy and lost their sense of balance.
I do not think I am alone in saying that in my opinion Nascar started playing favorites, and put their thumb on the scales to help certain drivers/ teams, and it seemed like it was the teams with the big budgets and were spending lots of money in advertising with Nascar. Phantom cautions that seemed to come out of nowhere for no reason other than to help certain drivers to get to the pits for new tires or to help them get a lap back, the old Lucky Dog !
It seemed like when an "outside" driver was having a really good run they would encounter a penalty, like speeding on pit road. best example, Montoya at Indy, going a reported 1/2 mile per hour too fast penalty.
Then there was the lug nut mystery, Just how many lug nuts can a team leave off and still be able to keep the wheel from coming off. Like I have stated before, it sure seems like the # 24 and the # 48 passed more cars on pit road then they ever did on the track.
Ever noticed that since NASCAR started enforcing the 5 lug nut per rule that the Hendricks team is not winning many races. Just saying !
Then there is the problem of just when does the caution flag come out? Mark Martin saw cars right behind him crashing at Daytona and slowed down, Harvick passed him and was awarded the win. Although cars were crashing, rolling over and catching fire in front of a pack of cars, the caution was slow to be called.
These were lead pack cars, not cars way back out of sight.
How about Nascar rules that in almost every case, a car that failed the post race inspection is not disqualified, the driver and team keep the win, but lose some points and fined some bucks.
I look at it this way, if a teams sponsor is sponsoring the race, or advertising a lot of TV, isn't it more important to win the race even if they cheat to win ? that is to say if Chevy is running lots and lots of ads is it so surprising to see a Chevy win, or if Toyota is heavily advertising and a Toyota wins, same with Ford. Doesn't always work out that way, but it sure seems to happen a lot.
Integrity is a key to being a successful sport, oh wait, didn't Bill France once say that auto racing was not a sport, it was entertainment.
Well in my opinion Nascar is not doing well as a sport or as entertainment, and it's integrity is in question. There are exceptions, but on the most part, most Nascar events are freight train races, not much passing for the lead.
A good start to get the fans back is to publish just how much the drivers won like they had been doing for decades. Also why not tell the people just how much the tire bill is for the teams at each track.
Disqualify cars that fail post race inspection.
Its a good start.
I want to see Nascar come back and be a good product.
 
So what you're saying is, if NASCAR were to once again release race earnings, the fans would come back? Interesting...
 
#1) Just stated that showing how much the drivers won would be a START in the right direction.
It was a tradition that was started in the yearly years, why hide it now ? Seems like they have people talking about all kinds of stuff why take away useful and interesting information ?

#2) Yes I like many others wonder why Nascar doesn't go to the one lug lock that Indy cars use. That would end the debate over whether a team tightened all 5 lugs per wheel, it would eliminate lug nuts coming off cars at high speed, and you ever wonder what happens to the lugs that come off the car ? Could that car or another car pick it up in their tires and or run over them and launch them through the pit area .
SAFETY to the fans, pit crews, and officials should be a HIGH PRIORITY.
 
Danny Ray Bennett said:
#1) Just stated that showing how much the drivers won would be a START in the right direction.
It was a tradition that was started in the yearly years, why hide it now ? Seems like they have people talking about all kinds of stuff why take away useful and interesting information ?

#2) Yes I like many others wonder why Nascar doesn't go to the one lug lock that Indy cars use. That would end the debate over whether a team tightened all 5 lugs per wheel, it would eliminate lug nuts coming off cars at high speed, and you ever wonder what happens to the lugs that come off the car ? Could that car or another car pick it up in their tires and or run over them and launch them through the pit area .
SAFETY to the fans, pit crews, and officials should be a HIGH PRIORITY.

You can knock people down that are trying to help solve some issues, I guess you just like to enjoy being negative, that is your right, but people get tired of that real quick.
Seems like you have nothing better to do than to be a troll. Your comments will not stop me.
May God Bless you and your family.
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NASCAR was always an exception rather than the rule with listing the payouts. Most series NEVER did that on a weekly basis. They might announce the winners share if it was a big race, or how much the championship was worth, but very few series EVER listed the payout all the way through the field. I will admit to missing it, because I am interested in the business of racing as much as I am the racing itself, but I think there were a couple reasons why they quit doing it. 1) As sport went through its downturn, I think a lot of those numbers got smaller, and it just made for more bad press. 2) I think there are some in the sport who were probably never comfortable with having that information out there, as it can be used against them in multiple ways. 3) Then there was the fact that seemingly NOBODY could understand the payouts and why Jimmie Johnson would earn more money for finishing 29th than Corey LaJoie would get for finishing 16th.

Center lock wheels are NO guarantee that wheels will not come off. Over 40+ years of watching Indy car and sportscar racing, I having probably seen more of those wheels come off than I ever have of the five lug ones, and often it happens at speed, not just falling off in the pits. A spectator was killed at the 1987 Indy 500 because a wheel came off a car, and the damage it did to Roberto Guerrero's car from contact with that wheel ended up costing him the victory.
 
@Danny Ray Bennett thank you for your comments. They are kind of all over the place, and I don't understand some of your points, but I like hearing (reading) your thoughts even if I don't typically agree. It's at least interesting, for whatever that's worth.
 
Danny Ray Bennett said:
I always thought it was interesting to see how much it paid to win the Grand National ( Monster Energy) events. I also liked to see what each position paid.
So why did NASCAR decide not to disclose that info any more ?
NASCAR seems to be doing a whole lot of changes , and we are talking BIG money, like buying the tracks, and also buying ARCA.
One has to think that the reason NASCAR is buying the tracks is to make sure that another series starts booking dates at those tracks.
I wrote about an idea that I had that with the right group of people, lots of money, could buy ARCA and create a schedule to compete against NASCAR.
It sounds odd but remember back when the A.S.A. American Speed Association had grown to the point of competing against NASCAR.
It makes sense in a way, NASCAR is loosing it's fan base and losing TV ratings. I am guessing that the advertiser and sponsorship money is tied in with these ratings. It really is bad business to see so many empty seats at most of these tracks. Even after many tracks removing tens of thousands of seats.
I have followed NASCAR for many years and in my opinion, they are all about the money. That's not all bad, but there has to be some balance between offering a good product and pricing.
Sure it is easy to jack up ticket prices, concession prices souvenir prices when the place is packed, but what happens when the attendance starts dropping off ? Raise the prices to maintain that nice profit margin ?
That would be short term profits vs long term strategy.
Milk it dry is not a good business model !
Like any large company it is slow to react to a changing business climate and if one has their prime directive of creating huge profit margins then a company may find itself in real trouble if their decisions lead them down the wrong path.
I remember some years back Nascar announcer, former driver and National Champion, Benny Parsons was talking about how NASCAR was changing and losing many of their long term fans, he was saying that Nascars state of mind is that if the changes brought in more new spectators than the ones leaving, Nacar considered that growth. And Nascar continued to grow, advertising that it was the fastest growing spectator sport in the country. But now where have all the "loyal" Nascar fans gone ?
Now Nascar is facing a tough time, how to get your fan base back and how to draw new fans ?
In my opinion, Nascar got greedy and lost their sense of balance.
I do not think I am alone in saying that in my opinion Nascar started playing favorites, and put their thumb on the scales to help certain drivers/ teams, and it seemed like it was the teams with the big budgets and were spending lots of money in advertising with Nascar. Phantom cautions that seemed to come out of nowhere for no reason other than to help certain drivers to get to the pits for new tires or to help them get a lap back, the old Lucky Dog !
It seemed like when an "outside" driver was having a really good run they would encounter a penalty, like speeding on pit road. best example, Montoya at Indy, going a reported 1/2 mile per hour too fast penalty.
Then there was the lug nut mystery, Just how many lug nuts can a team leave off and still be able to keep the wheel from coming off. Like I have stated before, it sure seems like the # 24 and the # 48 passed more cars on pit road then they ever did on the track.
Ever noticed that since NASCAR started enforcing the 5 lug nut per rule that the Hendricks team is not winning many races. Just saying !
Then there is the problem of just when does the caution flag come out? Mark Martin saw cars right behind him crashing at Daytona and slowed down, Harvick passed him and was awarded the win. Although cars were crashing, rolling over and catching fire in front of a pack of cars, the caution was slow to be called.
These were lead pack cars, not cars way back out of sight.
How about Nascar rules that in almost every case, a car that failed the post race inspection is not disqualified, the driver and team keep the win, but lose some points and fined some bucks.
I look at it this way, if a teams sponsor is sponsoring the race, or advertising a lot of TV, isn't it more important to win the race even if they cheat to win ? that is to say if Chevy is running lots and lots of ads is it so surprising to see a Chevy win, or if Toyota is heavily advertising and a Toyota wins, same with Ford. Doesn't always work out that way, but it sure seems to happen a lot.
Integrity is a key to being a successful sport, oh wait, didn't Bill France once say that auto racing was not a sport, it was entertainment.
Well in my opinion Nascar is not doing well as a sport or as entertainment, and it's integrity is in question. There are exceptions, but on the most part, most Nascar events are freight train races, not much passing for the lead.
A good start to get the fans back is to publish just how much the drivers won like they had been doing for decades. Also why not tell the people just how much the tire bill is for the teams at each track.
Disqualify cars that fail post race inspection.
Its a good start.
I want to see Nascar come back and be a good product.
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I appreciate your passion, l get frustrated sometime myself and that is part of being passionate and caring.

Note the following is just my two cents, I am not a moderator or owner, just a regular member.
I want to be constructive.
I think other posters would take your concerns more seriously and engage in a discussion about the merits of your concerns and ideas if:

If you limited those concerns to one or two items per post. Sometimes less is more, when l read one of yours that contains 10 or more concerns it is just two overwhelming. I feel like l would have to deconstruct or break down every element of Nascar to cover it all. I think most folks are serious about racing but they probably just don't have the time to tackle so many issues in a single setting or post.

That would not prevent you from expressing all of your concerns. It would just make it easier to give each point some real consideration and serious discussion.

I think keeping it all on a single thread about your Nascar concerns would be helpful too. Five threads or whatever about the same thing is just to redundant and it makes the conversation to choppy and impossible to follow. I don't want to have to rehash the same points that would be scattered five separate times across the five separate threads. Real life conversations are usually chronological and it makes it easier to listen and follow. A single thread would be beneficial for the same reasons.
 
Greg said:
I appreciate your passion, l get frustrated sometime myself and that is part of being passionate and caring.

Note the following is just my two cents, I am not a moderator or owner, just a regular member.
I want to be constructive.
I think other posters would take your concerns more seriously and engage in a discussion about the merits of your concerns and ideas if:

If you limited those concerns to one or two items per post. Sometimes less is more, when l read one of yours that contains 10 or more concerns it is just two overwhelming. I feel like l would have to deconstruct or break down every element of Nascar to cover it all. I think most folks are serious about racing but they probably just don't have the time to tackle so many issues in a single setting or post.

That would not prevent you from expressing all of your concerns. It would just make it easier to give each point some real consideration and serious discussion.

I think keeping it all on a single thread about your Nascar concerns would be helpful too. Five threads or whatever about the same thing is just to redundant and it makes the conversation to choppy and impossible to follow. I don't want to have a rehash the same points that would be scattered across the five threads. Real life conversations are usually chronological and it makes it easier to listen and follow. A single thread would be beneficial for the same reasons.
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Excellent post, Greg. Well said
 
I suggest you read Greg's post. You have been offered a leg up by one of the leaders here.
 
The race payouts go to the team. The driver has a contract with the team. I think they stopped advertising the race purse when they started the charters.
 
Greg said:
I appreciate your passion, l get frustrated sometime myself and that is part of being passionate and caring.

Note the following is just my two cents, I am not a moderator or owner, just a regular member.
I want to be constructive.
I think other posters would take your concerns more seriously and engage in a discussion about the merits of your concerns and ideas if:

If you limited those concerns to one or two items per post. Sometimes less is more, when l read one of yours that contains 10 or more concerns it is just two overwhelming. I feel like l would have to deconstruct or break down every element of Nascar to cover it all. I think most folks are serious about racing but they probably just don't have the time to tackle so many issues in a single setting or post.

That would not prevent you from expressing all of your concerns. It would just make it easier to give each point some real consideration and serious discussion.

I think keeping it all on a single thread about your Nascar concerns would be helpful too. Five threads or whatever about the same thing is just to redundant and it makes the conversation to choppy and impossible to follow. I don't want to have to rehash the same points that would be scattered five separate times across the five separate threads. Real life conversations are usually chronological and it makes it easier to listen and follow. A single thread would be beneficial for the same reasons.
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Yep.

A one word post that works just fine.
 
[B said:
I want to see Nascar come back and be a good product[/B].
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We won't see this in any of our lifetimes unless Steve Phelps, Steve O'Donnell, the entire France family, and many others step down. Which is highly unlikely because why would you give up a job where you can make millions doing absolutely nothing?
 
Greg said:
If you limited those concerns to one or two items per post.
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THIS. This might have been an interesting topic if @Danny Ray Bennett had stopped after these first sentences:
Danny Ray Bennett said:
I always thought it was interesting to see how much it paid to win the Grand National ( Monster Energy) events. I also liked to see what each position paid.
So why did NASCAR decide not to disclose that info any more ?
Click to expand...
But almost everything after that is about other unrelated stuff. Buying tracks, ARCA, ASA, ticket prices, Benny Parsons; I got lost after that.

Focus, please.
 
Oh, I don’t know ... once in a while a long, rambling diatribe is just the thing.
 
nascur could have the Pope driving a car and it wouldn't help bring it back......things are changing .....folks nowdays are entertained with modern devices that bring instant entertainment ....auto racing is just one many ''sports'' that are suffering........anyone remember bowling??
 
Old 97 said:
I've skipped a lot of hot meals just to buy race tires.
Used to put the stickers on a cabinet in the race shop until I found out my wife could do simple math.:D
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I won’t tell her you said that.
 
You really need to get some new announcers, Jeff Burton I admire as a great driver, but he does not have a good voice, not good enough to be the voice of NASCAR on telecasts. His voice gets very squeaky especially when he gets excited. Sorry to say so does Dale Jr.
The experiment to go to the radio style MRN broadcast was painful. These announcers did not have the experience that the MRN announcers do and that showed .
Why do you not use Dale Jarrett for the Monster Energy series, he does a great job as the lead announcer for the other series.

Ways to improve the series :
1) Use the Delaware Restart System which allows drivers to choose which lane than want to start in. Most tracks have a preferred lane and that often puts the 2nd place car at a disadvantage,.
2) Narrow the restart zone, I see many times that the leader gets a huge advantage by taking off as soon as he gets into the zone. The tracks have a line across the track to show the finish line, create another line, maybe in yellow to show the beginning of the restart zone.
3) On caution flags, cars should not be allowed to make up positions ( pass) under the yellow, it is a NASCAR rule, but they do it all the time in the pits during caution and that creates a dangerous situation for the pit crew members and the officials. Under a caution the pits become over crowded as sometimes the majority of the cars all come in at the same time. Many, many accidents have happened on pit road because of of this which have caused injuries and even fatalities. Nascar has bragged about racing being won or lost in the pits, which is usually because one team had a split second faster pit stop,. We fans prefer to see the race won on the track !
Cars should be aligned in the order they were running with the following rules, A) cars only taking on fuel
are go first, B) cars taking only 2 tires go next, C) cars taking on 4 tires are next, D) cars making any major body repairs go last. * using the "Choose" lane procedure.
4) Nascar's overtime rule needs to be expanded to 3 laps of competition instead of just two as at many larger tracks it sometimes takes a whole lap to get up to speed. If a caution comes out during that restart, then go to the current green, white checkered two lap. If a caution comes out during that then go to a 1 lap sprint to the finish. If a caution comes out during the 3rd attempt then the race should be called as the cars were running at the time of the caution.
5) Nascar should go back to weighing the car with the driver, currently all cars must weigh the same which gives a team with the lightest weight driver an advantage. No team should be given an advantage over another.
6) Nascar should limit the number of tires that teams are allowed to use during a race. This will force teams into using more strategy .
7 ) Do away with Restrictor Plate racing. These were brought in to slow cars down as they were becoming airborne during a spin, but now these cars have flaps to stop that from happening. Allow teams to have the option on the size of the motor and require cars with bigger motors to weigh more. as Nascar used to do.
Allow teams to have more rear gear options as well .

* personal note : please quit referring to NASCAR as high a speed chess match, it has nothing to do with chess and is actually more like checkers.

What fans want to see is fast paced racing with bumper banging, fender bending, door handle to door handle side by side racing with lots of passing and on track lead changes. We are tired of these 4, 5, or even longer bore-a-thon single file freight train racing with the only lead changes are due to pitting. We want to see the races won on the track and not in the pit area by one team having a split second faster pit stop.
We are sick of what appears to be NASCAR helping some drivers with phantom cautions or handing out supposedly pit road infractions to teams that are having an unexpected good run. Reference Juan Montoya at Indy Brickyard 400, penalized by going 0.5 mph too fast on pit road. A half mile an hour too fast. No court in the world would uphold a speeding violation of a half mile an hour especially when you realize these cars do not have speedometers. Could NASCAR state their equipment to monitor that difference as 100% accurate ?
Ever notice that when cars come into pit, some cars are bumper to bumper coming in but every once in a while one car will slow all the cars behind him by allowing the car in front of him to gain some space giving that car in front an advantage over all the others ?
Have you noticed that since cars are required to have all the lug nuts on the wheels that the Hendricks teams are not competitive any more ? The #24 and #48 seemed to pass more cars in the pit area than on the track and once they got that car out front no one could catch it. Nascar tried to pass a rule that a car was only required to have 3 or even just 2 lug nuts on a wheel, but quickly turned 180 degrees and stated that cars had to have all 5 lug nuts on all the wheels. Why the sudden and totally different decision.
Manufacturers state that on changing a tire all lug nuts must be placed back on the wheel.
Years ago NASCAR was the fastest growing sport in this country and they were losing their old loyal fan base but did not care as there were more coming in to take their places, but what NASCAR did not realize that these new fans were not as loyal ? These new fans came to see what it was all about, just curious, then they lost interest and left. Look at all the empty seats. This after some tracks removed of thousands of seats.
NASCAR needs to start listening to the fans. Their loyal fans.
 
Oh no.....not again.
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