Better Racing Will Bring More Fans to Nascar

LewTheShoe said:
Excellent post, Gnomesayin. Imagine a thread that actually discusses stock car racing, LOL.

I stand with you in liking the current landscape of officiating races, which is now in its second year. I also believe the low downforce philosophy has yielded major benefits in emphasizing driver skill. Extreme aero push and inability to pass a leader who has clean air on his nose... these aero ills are not gone entirely, but have been greatly diminished. I still believe more needs to be done to reduce side force, the next big job in the aero department.
Click to expand...
How do you pass a leader 8 seconds ahead of you? Aero wasn’t a factor yesterday.
 
gnomesayin said:
There was a more interesting discussion to be had. Not the one where the one guy has 2016's argument about increasingly dubious race manipulation and how idiotic Brian France is (of course he is), and a couple others tell us that NASCAR is the greatest and best it has ever been because at any given point NASCAR is the best it has ever been, because loyalty.

The racing is significantly different in 2018 in ways that have already been enumerated. There have been zero questionable cautions, and fewer real ones because smaller fields mean fewer backmarkers that were often the cause of multiple cautions in each event. Every race after Daytona has featured long green flag runs that separate the men from the boys. Aside from the stage breaks, these races are as pure and true tests of skill as they have been since at least the early 2000's, possibly longer.

That is either a good thing or a bad thing. For me, it is an exceedingly positive and unexpected development. I'm thrilled. To me, it looks like Brian France is as uninvolved as he has been during his tenure. It feels like adults are running things, and races are being officiated correctly. From there they can work on off-track measures to promote parity.

Others are going to disagree, and prefer races that are more engineered and directed to enforce closer finishes, more cars in contention, etc. That's the relevant debate to have in 2018.
Click to expand...

My preference is to see a race play out naturally and I have heard others say the same thing but I am not sure if that is what is really wanted. People don't like bogus cautions but they don't like winners running away from the field either and normally you can't have a close race unless its manufactured. We have only had 5 races this year but viewership is suffering mightily as 2 years ago at Cali there were 6.8 million viewers for the race and I am guessing it will down about 3 million viewers this year. We have a thread to discuss ratings so I am not looking to talk about that but are you the slightest bit befuddled that Nascar is producing racing that you like yet is way down in interest and viewership?
 
BobbyFord said:
A hell of a lot less fans at Auto Club Speedway this year than I’ve seen in quite a while.
Brian will probably tell you it was a sellout crowd. Brian is the only sellout.
I was focused on the tailgating.
Click to expand...

You are not supposed to notice things like that and if you do you are not supposed to comment about it! I saw empty seats last week and was told by a member that the race was sold out even though tickets were available 5 minutes before the race. There were a boatload of empty seats yesterday but I am thinking they were all paid for and people just didn't use them.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
You are not supposed to notice things like that and if you do you are not supposed to comment about it! I saw empty seats last week and was told by a member that the race was sold out even though tickets were available 5 minutes before the race. There were a boatload of empty seats yesterday but I am thinking they were all paid for and people just didn't use them.
Click to expand...
I’ve been going to ACS since ‘97.
I know when it’s sold out.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I'd rather see the best car win by 5 seconds than have a race decided by a manufactured caution.
Click to expand...

yep, a team that can put it on the field in this day and time should be commended over a driver that steals a win with a couple laps left that was obviously a slower car IMO
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
You are not supposed to notice things like that and if you do you are not supposed to comment about it! I saw empty seats last week and was told by a member that the race was sold out even though tickets were available 5 minutes before the race. There were a boatload of empty seats yesterday but I am thinking they were all paid for and people just didn't use them.
Click to expand...

You were shown specifically last year when deathbedding during a sellout crowd the number of fans that weren't in their seat. You might not remember that conveniently because you were under a different name. I believe that was before you got moderated. Some things never change. :D
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
are you the slightest bit befuddled that Nascar is producing racing that you like yet is way down in interest and viewership?
Click to expand...

No, because the two have very little relationship with each other. For instance, Indianapolis has constantly been derided as a 'bad' and unsatisfying race, but it is still among the highest watched races because of the significance of the venue and perceived importance. The correlation between quality and popularity, if it exists at all, is tenuous. Commercially speaking, the sport needs new breakout stars, personalities, and cultural significance. I'm no expert on how to attain those things, but a sustained rivalry or two would certainly heat things up.

I do believe that NASCAR and the RTA should strive to achieve greater parity. You can only do that so much in genuine races at difficult tracks, because frankly Kevin Harvick, Kyle Busch, Kyle Larson etc. are just flat out superior drivers to the guys who run 15th. However, the top teams have significant engineering advantages, and I support efforts to limit those to give more teams and more drivers the opportunity to excel.

One problem is that previously they manufactured an appearance of parity, largely through on-track officiating rules that gifted teams track position and laps back, and these were all built around what occurs when the yellow flag is thrown. Now with fewer cautions, the actual performance difference is more evident. I'm not that concerned with whether there are 5 cars or 15 cars capable of winning a race. My foremost concern is that I want an honest race, not one directed by the whims of the control tower. But it would likely be in NASCAR's best interest if they could even it out more than where it stands now.
 
StandOnIt said:
You were shown specifically last year when deathbedding during a sellout crowd the number of fans that weren't in their seat. You might not remember that conveniently because you were under a different name. I believe that was before you got moderated. Some things never change. :D
Click to expand...

Oh yeah I remember that. It was the race were the same seats were empty for the entire race and the excuse was that people were walking around. It makes sense as people normally pay 100 bucks for seats to a race and then walk around. Once again I thank you for the laugh!
 
gnomesayin said:
No, because the two have very little relationship with each other. For instance, Indianapolis has constantly been derided as a 'bad' and unsatisfying race, but it is still among the highest watched races because of the significance of the venue and perceived importance. The correlation between quality and popularity, if it exists at all, is tenuous. Commercially speaking, the sport needs new breakout stars, personalities, and cultural significance. I'm no expert on how to attain those things, but a sustained rivalry or two would certainly heat things up.

I do believe that NASCAR and the RTA should strive to achieve greater parity. You can only do that so much in genuine races at difficult tracks, because frankly Kevin Harvick, Kyle Busch, Kyle Larson etc. are just flat out superior drivers to the guys who run 15th. However, the top teams have significant engineering advantages, and I support efforts to limit those to give more teams and more drivers the opportunity to excel.

One problem is that previously they manufactured an appearance of parity, largely through on-track officiating rules that gifted teams track position and laps back, and these were all built around what occurs when the yellow flag is thrown. Now with fewer cautions, the actual performance difference is more evident. I'm not that concerned with whether there are 5 cars or 15 cars capable of winning a race. My foremost concern is that I want an honest race, not one directed by the whims of the control tower. But it would likely be in NASCAR's best interest if they could even it out more than where it stands now.
Click to expand...

I am in agreement and I hope Nascar lets things continue to play out for an entire year instead of getting a case of the yips and reverting to past sins.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
Oh yeah I remember that. It was the race were the same seats were empty for the entire race and the excuse was that people were walking around. It makes sense as people normally pay 100 bucks for seats to a race and then walk around. Once again I thank you for the laugh!
Click to expand...
Yep...many times I have bought tickets and never sat in the seat the ticket was for. But I will give you that rarely (although it has happened ) it a sell out condition.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
Oh yeah I remember that. It was the race were the same seats were empty for the entire race and the excuse was that people were walking around. It makes sense as people normally pay 100 bucks for seats to a race and then walk around. Once again I thank you for the laugh!
Click to expand...

All these people must have been getting hotdogs on Sunday at Fontana...LOL
MENCS_ACS_JJPITSTOP_031818.jpg
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
I am in agreement and I hope Nascar lets things continue to play out for an entire year instead of getting a case of the yips and reverting to past sins.
Click to expand...
Nascar did for the entire year of 2017, so at least there is that. Plus this year to date.
 
The last decade and a half or so really spoiled a lot of people. Jeff Gluck's Twitter polls on whether or not it was a good race, the general social media reaction, what /r/NASCAR is saying, it just doesn't seem to indicate that as many people want muh old school racing as it appeared before. I guess that makes sense in a way, as the constant cautions, format changes, etc. obviously pissed away a lot of fans. I think the first handful of races this year are as pure as we've had since the early 2000's, but I'm afraid that if general sentiment and TV ratings continue to decline we'll face another barrage of tweaks and fixes. No, I do not think that the field is deeper than ever before or that there's more parity than ever before (nor do I think either of those peaks can be reached again), but the way the races are run now is the cleanest we've seen in a while. And maybe we need NASCAR to develop a lengthier track record of letting things play out again before word starts to get out and people start to come back even if only incrementally.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The last decade and a half or so really spoiled a lot of people. Jeff Gluck's Twitter polls on whether or not it was a good race, the general social media reaction, what /r/NASCAR is saying, it just doesn't seem to indicate that as many people want muh old school racing as it appeared before. I guess that makes sense in a way, as the constant cautions, format changes, etc. obviously pissed away a lot of fans. I think the first handful of races this year are as pure as we've had since the early 2000's, but I'm afraid that if general sentiment and TV ratings continue to decline we'll face another barrage of tweaks and fixes. No, I do not think that the field is deeper than ever before or that there's more parity than ever before (nor do I think either of those peaks can be reached again), but the way the races are run now is the cleanest we've seen in a while. And maybe we need NASCAR to develop a lengthier track record of letting things play out again before word starts to get out and people start to come back even if only incrementally.
Click to expand...

Sage FL.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The last decade and a half or so really spoiled a lot of people. Jeff Gluck's Twitter polls on whether or not it was a good race, the general social media reaction, what /r/NASCAR is saying, it just doesn't seem to indicate that as many people want muh old school racing as it appeared before. I guess that makes sense in a way, as the constant cautions, format changes, etc. obviously pissed away a lot of fans. I think the first handful of races this year are as pure as we've had since the early 2000's, but I'm afraid that if general sentiment and TV ratings continue to decline we'll face another barrage of tweaks and fixes. No, I do not think that the field is deeper than ever before or that there's more parity than ever before (nor do I think either of those peaks can be reached again), but the way the races are run now is the cleanest we've seen in a while. And maybe we need NASCAR to develop a lengthier track record of letting things play out again before word starts to get out and people start to come back even if only incrementally.
Click to expand...

Well said and like you several of us would like to see this current trend followed and if they could get rid of stages or at least not stop the race because of them that would even be more to my liking. Not saying it would be better but just a personal preference. It would be really good if Nascar could get some fans back under 50 and I believe that that there are quite a few of them out there. I'm just not sure that a lot of those folks can overlook the way a champ is crowned but that is another matter for another time.

I know that there are some people that believe that Nascar's ratings don't matter and others make comments like all the commercials in the race broadcast are sold or it is the top ranked motorsport. I think the ratings and demo do matter as they always have for any other program but I don't think Nascar is dying by any means. Is it going to get smaller and will there be less money, fewer races and smaller fields? I think we are seeing the beginning of these things now. I think most sports fans are forgiving when it comes to human error in officiating but have no tolerance for manipulation so it is important for Nascar to stay the course. I don't know a fan of any stick and ball sport that would tune and watch something like Nascar put on in 2016 and years prior.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom