Better Racing Will Bring More Fans to Nascar

I think better racing is kinda subjective. To me a lot of the close competition that we are seeing right now is manufactured (Stages, restarts and the mystery caution) and personally it doesn't interest me.

Personally I like seeing how the race just lays out naturally (tire/fuel strategy, how guys come and go throughout the run) Usually when that happens one guy catches another at the end of a run and to me thats better racing
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
There was some talk on another thread that the racing has been better in Nascar since sometime last year and the "build it and they will come" mentality will kick in and more people will start watching. Do you agree or disagree and for what reasons?

I think first off you have to define what good racing is and based on TV viewership and attendance the plate races are the most popular so evidently many people feel that good racing equals plate racing. Some people think short track racing is the panacea while others gravitate to road courses. There may be a group that love the cookie cutters too for all I know.

I don't think the type of races held at current Nascar tracks will increase TV ratings because my opinion is that traditional American motorsports no longer capture the imagination of people the way they did in decades past. In other words you could have finishes like Busch and Craven at Darlington each week and it wouldn't improve ratings. Something like that showing the last lap and a half might be very popular on Youtube though. IMO there will always be a market for Nascar so I am not suggesting it is dying but just on its way to becoming smaller. Smaller is not synonymous with poor quality bad racing either.
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I disagree. Good racing can only help imo.
We agree I think on some things. Racing ain't a main stream thing. Not as many gear heads, machines used to capture the imagination more, electronics has replaced those days. We can go on forever but the expansion in the 90's was built on a bubble that was unsustainable.

But I still think good racing will attract more of the avaliable market, than poor racing will. Some people will watch regardless of quality.
But some will tune in or out based on the current quality.
Even the diehards that will never leave, can have the enthusiasm tuned up or detuned.

One othere thing, I love short tracks and they would be at least 50% of the schedule if I had my way.
But good racing can be accomplished on all of the tracks. Just keep the tire wear going, and the long green runs, and it will be alright.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
If you attend a muscle car show and you are 55 you are probably the youngest person in the place.
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They had a car and truck show at Southern National last year and it was easily the youngest crowd they had all year. Most of the people there were in their 20s.
 
Did we specify for sure that we're talking about 55 years of age? I mean I'm Team 55 all the way baby. I bleed that Premium Motorsports black and...whatever color they are currently using.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
If you attend a muscle car show and you are 55 you are probably the youngest person in the place.
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Depends on your definition of "muscle car". Just last Sunday I went to the monthly cars and coffee at the Palm Beach Outlet mall where they usually have 3000+ cars. There were plenty of folks under 30 with late model Camaro's, Mustangs and Challengers. Yes, they were also there in older Hondas and Toyotas, but nontheless they were there interested in cars
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Here's one of the biggest problems though. NASCAR still revolves around Dale Earnhardt and, until we fix that and get the sport out of his shadow, we can't make it about the current stars.

Here's the rub ... the current fans aren't going to let go and there isn't a generation of new fans to replace them.
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Also, the newer fans aren't entering the sport due to Sr., Richard Petty, or _______________ fill in the blank of whatever star from yesterday. They aren't here because of them.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
100% false.
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All old farts and grandkids along for the ride at the dedicated shows I attend. I am glad there is more interest from youngsters in your neck of the woods.
AndyMarquisLive said:
They had a car and truck show at Southern National last year and it was easily the youngest crowd they had all year. Most of the people there were in their 20s.
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I am glad you had a different experience than what I have had.
 
Spotter22 said:
You're right, better racing wont do it. Its better now than its ever been and the crowds have dwindled. We can argue all day long about why, but not about the on track competition.
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Woooa, it's far from better than it's ever been, it' getting better, but to say it's better than it's ever been is ...well false to put it mildly.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Some valid points here. I don't think Chase Elliott's a "bust" but I don't think he's going to be what the media expects him to be. I still say multiple wins each year, once he finally gets that monkey off his back, and maybe a few championships. But he's not going to be Dale, Jeff, Jimmie, Bill and King Richard all rolled into one superhuman driver. I really feel bad for him with the expectations the media has laid out.

It's WAAAYYYY too soon to judge Bubba. The entire Chevrolet contingent is running poorly right now. Once things improve, Wallace will be a top-25 guy, maybe top-20. If he overperforms in that car, I would not be surprised if he ended up in the #1 or #31 or something.
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Did anyone ever say he was going to be 7 time?
 
Towmater said:
And couldn't afford to buy anything there.:D The muscle cars of yesterday bring and cost serious money.
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I suspect few people attending car shows can afford to buy what they're seeing. Plenty of people watch auto auctions on the tube without having the income to participate. Boat and RV shows too.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I suspect few people attending car shows can afford to buy what they're seeing. Plenty of people watch auto auctions on the tube without having the income to participate. Boat and RV shows too.
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The Barrett Jackson Auction in January is one of my favorite things of the year to watch, however it was easier to find when Speed Channel was around.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm really glad that younger people are showing interest in car shows like this, but from the pictures you posted, it pained me to even look at them. Why on earth ANYBODY thinks a car with wheels so big you can limbo under it is cool is completely lost on me.
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Tastes vary. I'll never understand why some people think a loud exhaust system is desirable. At least with big wheels, the driver can still sneak his girlfriend home after her curfew.
 
I for one am with the group who think slower cars would produce better racing. The cars today are going so fast that the slightest touch will send them spinning and this is NOT Racing. Cars sitting 8 inches off the track and with only 650 HP produced much better racing IMO. That was because the Drivers are what raced he car and not the engineer. Nascar in the last 20 years has done everything to make the cars faster and the racing has reached a point where air pressure on a rear quarter panel is what lets you pass. This racing today is not exciting and I for one would like to see a little rubbing without crashing come back.
 
Team Penske said:
I for one am with the group who think slower cars would produce better racing. The cars today are going so fast that the slightest touch will send them spinning and this is NOT Racing. Cars sitting 8 inches off the track and with only 650 HP produced much better racing IMO. That was because the Drivers are what raced he car and not the engineer. Nascar in the last 20 years has done everything to make the cars faster and the racing has reached a point where air pressure on a rear quarter panel is what lets you pass. This racing today is not exciting and I for one would like to see a little rubbing without crashing come back.
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I would say 90 some % of the people I ask about Nascar say they don't watch because it's "fixed". For most of them it's NOT a sport. It's WWE. Just zero interest. Should add i've lived in NC for most of last 20 years, five just outside of Mooresville. You would think they would be fans. Nope.

I 100% agree with the cars being too fast now. That is what created the aero dependance. Go slower aero has less importance. Plus they screwed the pooch on building too many 1.5 mile tracks.

It amazes me they have been plate racing for 30 years. 1987-2018 Think about that number. Half my life. No attempt to fix the problem. They spent boo-koo bucks making the cars safer so they could wreck 25 at a time instead of changing the tracks. THAT is the only way you fix Dega & Daytona. FIX THE TRACK.

But do we NEED to be running 210 MPH going into the turn to have a good race? The thrilling thing about watching someone set a track record WAS because they hung it out more than the guys behind them. Now it's down to .00257 better aero numbers at the RR quarter panel. It's boring to watch for me. Just boring. I can go watch cars on the beltline all run exactly the same speed. I see people here bitching about one car leading the last 20 laps comfortably. Not every race is going to be a 4 wide finish. Just let them unfold naturally. Why should anyone get penalized for hitting the set-up right? If someone wins by 3 seconds the "he's cheating" brigade cranks up. The whole thing tastes bad to me.

That last one out please turn out the lights.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Woooa, it's far from better than it's ever been, it' getting better, but to say it's better than it's ever been is ...well false to put it mildly.
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It is to me, and Ive been watching and participating since 1972. Your milage may vary.
 
Spotter22 said:
It is to me, and Ive been watching and participating since 1972. Your milage may vary.
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I believe your opinion of "better" relates to 40 cars running on the same lap or within .153 seconds lap-time of each other. Some of us old guys remember when less than 10 cars were on lead lap at finish. And it was fine. You slow, you get lapped. Now everybody gets a participation trophy.
 
KTMLew01 said:
I believe your opinion of "better" relates to 40 cars running on the same lap or within .153 seconds lap-time of each other. Some of us old guys remember when less than 10 cars were on lead lap at finish. And it was fine. You slow, you get lapped. Now everybody gets a participation trophy.
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and a guaranteed pay out.
 
KTMLew01 said:
I believe your opinion of "better" relates to 40 cars running on the same lap or within .153 seconds lap-time of each other. Some of us old guys remember when less than 10 cars were on lead lap at finish. And it was fine. You slow, you get lapped. Now everybody gets a participation trophy.
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I remember 1 car on the lead lap. Thats not better.
 
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What is even more hilarious is that Nascar needs to change the plate tracks for some of them. The four most attended races with the largest audience, that have the largest purses..yeah, get rid of those Nascar. More short tracks :D:D:p We'll fill the parking lots with 75 haulers..go back to dually's pulling a trailer I guess.
 
StandOnIt said:
What is even more hilarious is that Nascar needs to change the plate tracks for some of them. The four most attended races with the largest audience, that have the largest purses..yeah, get rid of those Nascar. More short tracks :D:D:p We'll fill the parking lots with 75 haulers..go back to dually's pulling a trailer I guess.
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Yeah its not really hard to figure out why the plates bring the largest crowds and why we still have them. Supply and demand.
 
yeah lets go to short tracks. Run a bunch Eldora size. It costs over 15 thou to show up with a truck, for a purse if you finish first of 15 thousand..wonder how long that would last before they all go broke.
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah lets go to short tracks. Run a bunch Eldora size. It costs over 15 thou to show up with a truck, for a purse if you finish first of 15 thousand..wonder how long that would last before they all go broke.
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I doubt 10 Trucks would show up
 
Have Nascar go run short tracks and compete with K&N and ARCA, wipe those two off the face of the map, heck yeah great idea :D
 
The racing now is way better than it was when this sport really took off in the mid to late 80's through the early 00's. However, the story that unfolds during the course of a race is not nearly as good. If you go back and watch older races on youtube you realize how tough drivers were when this sport was blowing up. I was watching a few events from the tire war heyday and one thing that stood out was the beating the drivers took. These guys were literally getting carried from their car at every track a mile and larger. People were absolutely drawn to the gladiator aspect of the sport. Driver changes and guys racing with broken legs, broken arms, eyes taped open etc was so unique to NASCAR and blue collar Americans ate it up. Watch Ricky Rudd's win at Martinsville in 1998. Rooster risked death to win a NASCAR race.

Races back in the day were battles of attrition. Engines would blow up all the time. It wouldn't be uncommon for 20 or so cars to be running by the end of the race. The mechanical failure aspect is why you stay tuned in when there would be 4 cars on the lead lap with the leader ahead by 12 seconds.

There were also so many unique moments that really don't exist anymore. I was at the Pocono race after Davey Allison died and the post race tribute that Earnhardt did was incredible. Earnhardt also showed great humility a few weeks early at Talladega after sending Rusty barrel rolling past the start finish line.

I can't imagine people trying to sit through a 500 mile race at Dover now without a cell phone. All you had was your cooler, headphones and what was right in front of you. I saw some God awful races in my day (many as a teenager) but even so there was no place I wanted to be at the time.

The one misconception is that races were selling out all the time. The truth is the sellouts only lasted for a relatively short period of time (5-10) for a several tracks/races. If you watch races from the late 80's, early 90's you'll notice plenty of empty seats. Talladega and Daytona couldn't give tickets away to their July races. Spring Rockingham, spring Atlanta, spring Martinsville never drew well.

NASCAR lost its edge when Earnhardt died, it lost its soul when TV took over. Ironically, both happened in 2001....
 
It's fading fast, and sponsors are leaving in groves. Target, Home Depot, Farmers ins, Lowes, etc.. all see the writing on the wall. I have been a diehard fan since the 70's with local tracks, Espn started running nascar and I loved it, planned my Sundays around it. Fast forward to today, 1.5 milers I dont watch, plate racing can be boring as well, follow the leader until 10 laps to go and wait for the wreck. Road courses I still like, but they too havent been as exciting lately. They wrecked Bristol and have been trying to fix it ever since. Martinsville I still like. Just a few years ago I passed on free tickets to MIS which included a helicopter ride to and from the track from my hometown and a suite behind/above the pits with everything included, drinks, eats, A/C ... My son received 2 gift certificates to MIS 3 years ago (x-mas gift), any race at that track. Those certificates are still in the drawer, he didnt want them and I didnt either. NBC? junk. FOX not much better. Can an underdog every win? Yeah if it rains while cars are pitting and the race is called. I'll give it one more chance tomorrow ( cold out anyway) If its a breakaway at the front and 10 cars on the lead lap by lap 25, then the channel gets changed-- and maybe forever--
 
rocket dawg said:
It's fading fast, and sponsors are leaving in groves. Target, Home Depot, Farmers ins, Lowes, etc.. all see the writing on the wall. I have been a diehard fan since the 70's with local tracks, Espn started running nascar and I loved it, planned my Sundays around it. Fast forward to today, 1.5 milers I dont watch, plate racing can be boring as well, follow the leader until 10 laps to go and wait for the wreck. Road courses I still like, but they too havent been as exciting lately. They wrecked Bristol and have been trying to fix it ever since. Martinsville I still like. Just a few years ago I passed on free tickets to MIS which included a helicopter ride to and from the track from my hometown and a suite behind/above the pits with everything included, drinks, eats, A/C ... My son received 2 gift certificates to MIS 3 years ago (x-mas gift), any race at that track. Those certificates are still in the drawer, he didnt want them and I didnt either. NBC? junk. FOX not much better. Can an underdog every win? Yeah if it rains while cars are pitting and the race is called. I'll give it one more chance tomorrow ( cold out anyway) If its a breakaway at the front and 10 cars on the lead lap by lap 25, then the channel gets changed-- and maybe forever--
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If thats your criteria for the race why were you watching back in the 70's? 90% of those races were runaways
 
StandOnIt said:
It's no wonder Nascar doesn't listen to the older fans, most of them are like a bunch of parrot's with an imaginary vision of the good ol days.
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But what are the "older fans"? Sports are generational imo. You watch, follow and play the sports that your family/siblings do.

I mentioned this a few months ago but not only did NASCAR lose the "fad" fans they also lost the 6-15 year old oversize t-shirt Jeff Gordon fans from the 90s. They lost the kids whose dads were Jarrett, Earnhardt, Martin, Allison, Wallace, Rudd, Labonte, Elliott etc fans because not only did they drivers change (that was inevitable) the sport itself changed. The problem is NASCAR tried so hard to be TV friendly it not only lost the fad fans it lost the a good chunk of the generational fan base too.

I'm basically part of the Tiger Woods/Jeff Gordon generation, born in 1982. Ironically, i work in the golf industry and still follow NASCAR.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
The racing now is way better than it was when this sport really took off in the mid to late 80's through the early 00's. However, the story that unfolds during the course of a race is not nearly as good. If you go back and watch older races on youtube you realize how tough drivers were when this sport was blowing up. I was watching a few events from the tire war heyday and one thing that stood out was the beating the drivers took. These guys were literally getting carried from their car at every track a mile and larger. People were absolutely drawn to the gladiator aspect of the sport. Driver changes and guys racing with broken legs, broken arms, eyes taped open etc was so unique to NASCAR and blue collar Americans ate it up. Watch Ricky Rudd's win at Martinsville in 1998. Rooster risked death to win a NASCAR race.

Races back in the day were battles of attrition. Engines would blow up all the time. It wouldn't be uncommon for 20 or so cars to be running by the end of the race. The mechanical failure aspect is why you stay tuned in when there would be 4 cars on the lead lap with the leader ahead by 12 seconds.

There were also so many unique moments that really don't exist anymore. I was at the Pocono race after Davey Allison died and the post race tribute that Earnhardt did was incredible. Earnhardt also showed great humility a few weeks early at Talladega after sending Rusty barrel rolling past the start finish line.

I can't imagine people trying to sit through a 500 mile race at Dover now without a cell phone. All you had was your cooler, headphones and what was right in front of you. I saw some God awful races in my day (many as a teenager) but even so there was no place I wanted to be at the time.

The one misconception is that races were selling out all the time. The truth is the sellouts only lasted for a relatively short period of time (5-10) for a several tracks/races. If you watch races from the late 80's, early 90's you'll notice plenty of empty seats. Talladega and Daytona couldn't give tickets away to their July races. Spring Rockingham, spring Atlanta, spring Martinsville never drew well.

NASCAR lost its edge when Earnhardt died, it lost its soul when TV took over. Ironically, both happened in 2001....
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Cars used to overheat all the time and at a moments notice. You had to watch because the guy with the 10 second lead could get knocked out at any minute. The cars are so reliable these days that once Newman pitted last race I knew the race was over and who would win.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
Cars used to overheat all the time and at a moments notice. You had to watch because the guy with the 10 second lead could get knocked out at any minute. The cars are so reliable these days that once Newman pitted last race I knew the race was over and who would win.
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I was watching a race and the "shop talk" talk was about heat reduction. They had just started using heat shields from NASA in the floorboard which was a huge deal. One of the drivers, I think it was DW, had 3rd degree burns on his heel and his bone had actually been charred a year or two earlier. This was probably '89 or '90.

The July race at Talladega was inhumane. The one race the air temp was 103. Daytona was bad but Alabama in late July is next level...
 
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