Better Racing Will Bring More Fans to Nascar

AtomicPunk55

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Riddle me this Batman. If Brian France and his lackeys think the racing has never been better than today what good is it if people are tuning out en mass? 4 races this year and 3 with ratings off 20% and 1 at 15% over last year. If Yogi Berra was still with is he would probably say something like "The better they make the racing the less people watch."
 

Spotter22

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Cars used to overheat all the time and at a moments notice. You had to watch because the guy with the 10 second lead could get knocked out at any minute. The cars are so reliable these days that once Newman pitted last race I knew the race was over and who would win.
Same stuff can still happen. Lapped car in the way, cut tire, someone wrecks and brings out the caution. It aint over till its over.
 

AtomicPunk55

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I was watching a race and the "shop talk" talk was about heat reduction. They had just started using heat shields from NASA in the floorboard which was a huge deal. One of the drivers, I think it was DW, had 3rd degree burns on his heel and his bone had actually been charred a year or two earlier. This was probably '89 or '90.

The July race at Talladega was inhumane. The one race the air temp was 103. Daytona was bad but Alabama in late July is next level...
It has been said that Bobby Allison used to prepare for some races driving around in a street car with the windows rolled up and the heater on full blast.
 

Spotter22

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Riddle me this Batman. If Brian France and his lackeys think the racing has never been better than today what good is it if people are tuning out en mass? 4 races this year and 3 with ratings off 20% and 1 at 15% over last year. If Yogi Berra was still with is he would probably say something like "The better they make the racing the less people watch."
Who knows but its better.
 

AtomicPunk55

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Same stuff can still happen. Lapped car in the way, cut tire, someone wrecks and brings out the caution. It aint over till its over.
I agree it can happen but not to the same degree it did in years past. A guy could be out front and get a set of tires with the wrong stagger and he was finished. There were far more wild cards that impacted the races way back when as opposed to today. When was the last time you saw a car pushing water that had not had debris on the grille or damage?
 

Spotter22

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It has been said that Bobby Allison used to prepare for some races driving around in a street car with the windows rolled up and the heater on full blast.
Bobby said if you want to know what its like to drive 500 miles in a stock car, roll up your windows in August, turn the heat on full blast and drive for 4 hours
 

Spotter22

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I agree it can happen but not to the same degree it did in years past. A guy could be out front and get a set of tires with the wrong stagger and he was finished. There were far more wild cards that impacted the races way back when as opposed to today. When was the last time you saw a car pushing water that had not had debris on the grille or damage?
Dont know, but as long as there is a chance it could happen , its not over.
 

KodiakRusty89

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Bobby said if you want to know what its like to drive 500 miles in a stock car, roll up your windows in August, turn the heat on full blast and drive for 4 hours
I'm pretty sure they had to redevelop fire extinguishers because the heat inside the cars was causing them to explode at Talladega. I can't imagine what those guys went through for 3-4 hours.
 

StandOnIt

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I agree it can happen but not to the same degree it did in years past. A guy could be out front and get a set of tires with the wrong stagger and he was finished. There were far more wild cards that impacted the races way back when as opposed to today. When was the last time you saw a car pushing water that had not had debris on the grille or damage?
they fixed the radiators years and years ago. Some of them would get hot drafting on big tracks and they would slide over and cool them off years ago..that is still going on today
 

rocket dawg

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If thats your criteria for the race why were you watching back in the 70's? 90% of those races were runaways
Maybe, but there was at least 20 cars that were capable of winning. Single car teams, not 4,5 or 6 car teams. The separation wasnt near as bad as it is today. I saw 33 cars finish on the lead lap at MIS my first visit there, yeah only 10 were lapped or retired. Back when there was no such thing as pit road speed or stage racing. i actually witnessed Richard Petty lead a few laps.
 

AtomicPunk55

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Maybe, but there was at least 20 cars that were capable of winning. Single car teams, not 4,5 or 6 car teams. The separation wasnt near as bad as it is today. I saw 33 cars finish on the lead lap at MIS my first visit there, yeah only 10 were lapped or retired. Back when there was no such thing as pit road speed or stage racing. i actually witnessed Richard Petty lead a few laps.
They didn't have all the charity they do today back then so if you got into trouble early it normally ruined your day. Now you can get 3-4 laps down early and still have a shot at the win. What a joke!
 

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I like this topic. For me the thing that defines NASCAR is it’s contact, and with the speeds and aero dependency that is waining in recent years. IMO the racing has never been better as it’s became kind of a combo of Indycar while still keeping a little bit of that bumping, but the old school fans definitely seem to miss that constant grind
 

Towmater

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It is to me, and Ive been watching and participating since 1972. Your milage may vary.
Then you watched when 5 or 6 teams could win a race and the rest of the field was laps down. Man, what fun that must have been to sit through. That makes one wonder how the sport every grew.
 

KodiakRusty89

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Maybe, but there was at least 20 cars that were capable of winning. Single car teams, not 4,5 or 6 car teams. The separation wasnt near as bad as it is today. I saw 33 cars finish on the lead lap at MIS my first visit there, yeah only 10 were lapped or retired. Back when there was no such thing as pit road speed or stage racing. i actually witnessed Richard Petty lead a few laps.
One thing I noticed pre mid 90's is most teams were good at one thing. You had the teams with good engine builders thus their success was built on horsepower. You had teams who had good chassis guys and that's what made them successful. There were the outside of the box teams who ran Hoosiers and were willing try to different things. Then there were the scrappy teams that had good crew chiefs/pit crews and basically relied on strategy to succeed. Very teams could afford to have all facets....
 

StandOnIt

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Then you watched when 5 or 6 teams could win a race and the rest of the field was laps down. Man, what fun that must have been to sit through. That makes one wonder how the sport every grew.
the points system was different, even though second was laps down they got second points on down the line. There were only 3 to 5 cars that were worth much back in the 80's for the most part. A lot of teams weren't running the full schedule because of the prize money..I wonder if the deathbedders back then passed on their genes to the one's of today?
 

Towmater

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the points system was different, even though second was laps down they got second points on down the line. There were only 3 to 5 cars that were worth much back in the 80's for the most part.
Thank you for relaying something I already knew. That being said, I would not want to sit through a race or season in which only 4 or 5 teams can win a championship or a race. That really must have been must see stuff in the early 1970's.:rolleyes: They had to tape delay and edit the races to make them interesting enough to run on Wild World of Sports.
 

AtomicPunk55

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I know that 7 or 8 cars that have gone laps down have won the race and others have gone down laps and scored top 5's and 10's.
 

ReturnTrip

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There have been 47 lead-lap finishers this season in four races, that's fewer than 12 per race.

Last year had 80 after four races.

In 2010 there was 98.

96 in 2006.

Pretty consistently 70+ through most of the 2000s.

Gotta go back to 1996 to find fewer, and that was 45. No wave-around or stages back then, more mechanical issues, no double-file restarts.


There are obviously a lot of factors that play into it (Daytona is a crapshoot, Harvick dominating early, etc...), but you still have to go back over 20 years. I got curious after HMS cars were finishing cookie-cutter races 2 laps down and checked the numbers. Make of it what you will.
 

StandOnIt

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I know that 7 or 8 cars that have gone laps down have won the race and others have gone down laps and scored top 5's and 10's.

I asked who? Who came from 3 or four laps down to win a race? Is that another exaggeration? It all goes to credibility.
 

AtomicPunk55

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I asked who? Who came from 3 or four laps down to win a race? Is that another exaggeration? It all goes to credibility.
I never said anyone came from 3 laps down to win a race. I said "Now you can get 3-4 laps down early and still have a shot at the win. What a joke!
 

Spotter22

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It's real racing. Only one car wins.
Its real racing today. Only 1 car wins
Maybe, but there was at least 20 cars that were capable of winning. Single car teams, not 4,5 or 6 car teams. The separation wasnt near as bad as it is today. I saw 33 cars finish on the lead lap at MIS my first visit there, yeah only 10 were lapped or retired. Back when there was no such thing as pit road speed or stage racing. i actually witnessed Richard Petty lead a few laps.
There was no way 20 cars were capable of winning back in the 70's, or 80's for that matter. The seperation was far worse back then as it is today, not even close. I was there.

I never said anyone came from 3 laps down to win a race. I said "Now you can get 3-4 laps down early and still have a shot at the win. What a joke!
How do you have a shot to win 3-4 laps down? Thats not a shot, thats a miracle.
 

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I do believe we have a lot of race cars and drivers capable of winning, with a few that prove themselves the best over the course of the season. Been this way since the 90’s when NASCAR’S popularity started to explode. The racing quality itself hit a rut after the car of tomorrow was introduced. It’s been improving little by little. Last year saw lots of different winners. The Camaro will take some time to groove in. When Ford goes to the Mustang they will have some pains.

I love racing. I’ll complain as needed but every year and every decade is going to look different. We still have people who want to go fast, and love to beat the other car. That’s racin’!
 

AtomicPunk55

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Its real racing today. Only 1 car wins

There was no way 20 cars were capable of winning back in the 70's, or 80's for that matter. The seperation was far worse back then as it is today, not even close. I was there.


How do you have a shot to win 3-4 laps down? Thats not a shot, thats a miracle.
When you can get down laps and magically get you on the lead lap you have a shot to win. If you feel differently that is OK.
 

AtomicPunk55

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I do believe we have a lot of race cars and drivers capable of winning, with a few that prove themselves the best over the course of the season. Been this way since the 90’s when NASCAR’S popularity started to explode. The racing quality itself hit a rut after the car of tomorrow was introduced. It’s been improving little by little. Last year saw lots of different winners. The Camaro will take some time to groove in. When Ford goes to the Mustang they will have some pains.

I love racing. I’ll complain as needed but every year and every decade is going to look different. We still have people who want to go fast, and love to beat the other car. That’s racin’!
Things don't stay the same as sometimes they become much better and of course they can also get much worse. With respect to Nascar there will be those that have the same thought process as Brian France in saying the racing has never been better than today while others won't like a thing they see. I have liked the racing I have watched this year and if the race gets to a point where it is not entertaining I do something else.
 

StandOnIt

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the early 1990s busch cars had good racing with low powered cars.
The Xfinity races still do have good racing. Many times last year it was the best race of the weekend. The trucks have done so also. This year at Atlanta was a wild one. Brett Moffitt pulled a squeaker off.
 

AtomicPunk55

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The Xfinity races still do have good racing. Many times last year it was the best race of the weekend. The trucks have done so also. This year at Atlanta was a wild one. Brett Moffitt pulled a squeaker off.
What you say goes along with what I said. The X racing is good and I believe kids even get in free yet no one shows up to support it or watches from home. I admit that I am part of the problem in that regard as I got turned off with the invasion of cup guys and the ship has sailed.
 

StandOnIt

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What you say goes along with what I said. The X racing is good and I believe kids even get in free yet no one shows up to support it or watches from home. I admit that I am part of the problem in that regard as I got turned off with the invasion of cup guys and the ship has sailed.
There is a following
 

StandOnIt

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20 years ago at AutoClub, out of 43 cars 3 had engine problems and a 4th had an oil leak. One of those engine failures was from a car involved in a crash earlier. 15 cars on the lead lap. That was before the lucky dog. None were listed as "overheating" and AutoClub is one of the worst tracks for paper and debris.
 

AtomicPunk55

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I think it was Kyle Busch that got 5 laps back at the Glen a few years back and finished top 10. The problem isn't the amount of time it happens but that there is a mechanism in place to allow it to happen.
20 years ago at AutoClub, out of 43 cars 3 had engine problems and a 4th had an oil leak. One of those engine failures was from a car involved in a crash earlier. 15 cars on the lead lap. That was before the lucky dog. None were listed as "overheating" and AutoClub is one of the worst tracks for paper and debris.
One race in the late 90's where no cars were listed as not overheating.
 

StandOnIt

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I think it was Kyle Busch that got 5 laps back at the Glen a few years back and finished top 10. The problem isn't the amount of time it happens but that there is a mechanism in place to allow it to happen.

One race in the late 90's where no cars were listed as not overheating.
more making stuff up.
 

LewTheShoe

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I agree it can happen but not to the same degree it did in years past. A guy could be out front and get a set of tires with the wrong stagger and he was finished. There were far more wild cards that impacted the races way back when as opposed to today. When was the last time you saw a car pushing water that had not had debris on the grille or damage?
I have a double-digit list of races where "my driver" had it well in hand with a few laps left... and then lost the race due to some late-race incident. There is also a list of races he actually won after misfortune robbed someone else. To say the race is "over" before the checker flag in Nascar cup races is delusional.

I would not be in favor of Nascar race results being more random due to mechanical attrition. I want the race to be a meritocracy, won by driving skill and excellent team execution. Not by some lottery of mechanical attrition. To complain the races were better back when they were more dependent on random mechanical good fortune seems bizarre to me.

The "Early Nascar" lifestyle of 30-40-50 years ago ain't coming back. The drivers don't build engines or tune suspensions, and they don't bench race and drink beer with fans in the motel parking lot any more. For better or worse, the knowledge base and technology of racing has evolved and matured. It is a one-way street. The collective industry will not un-learn what has been learned... true in racing, true in every facet of life.
 

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I have a double-digit list of races where "my driver" had it well in hand with a few laps left... and then lost the race due to some late-race incident. There is also a list of races he actually won after misfortune robbed someone else. To say the race is "over" before the checker flag in Nascar cup races is delusional.
Yep.
 

AtomicPunk55

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I agree that anything can happen to alter the course of a race.

I never said I was in favor of engines grenading or cars retiring due to other mechanical problems. I said that it did happen so it kept me on the edge of my seat. I don't advocate gremlins being introduced into cars today as those things were just a product of the times.

I don't know what a NASCAR lifestyle is and I don't care about changing things to a previous time. NASCAR could do some things to improve the series that don't involve turning back time in my opinion
 
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