Biffle Says Goodbye To Roush

I guess the old man is a royal pain, I have heard the criticism enough to believe that it is probably true.

From a distance he seems a hands on type, probably a loner with some introverted tendencies . He just seems like the type that does not delegate as well as other owners. And that loss just becomes more profound with age, a sad reality (again from a distance). Recovery is probably impossible at this stage.

But he has had a great career, one with distinction, and a lot of great talent and careers have been introduced through his organization.

I have been a chevy first fan almost as long as a racing and a automobile fan. But I can only respect Jack Rousch. One of the key players for approximately the last 25 years. And seeing him get old and eventually leaving is a sad thing imo.

Roush numbers
135 cup wins
137 GN or XFINITY wins
50 Truck wins.
 
aunty dive said:
Yesterday. So named because of the large number or people currently in it, including yourself if I remember correctly.

What do clown driving shoes look like?
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Same as regular clown shoes but with oversized heat shields. The hard part is getting all the HANS devices connected.
 
Fordracing7 said:
1? Car by my math but who knows.....

-16
-15
-46
-7

+33?
+JTG?
+77
& ??????????
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Is 33 set in stone? I Googled around but can't find anything saying it is. That's the discrepancy between our numbers.
 
29-4 said:
What's the value of a charter when the field is going to be short two cars anyway?
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I think the MWR charters were sold for 5 million each but IDK how much less they would be worth today. Nascar botched the release of the charters giving just about everyone that wanted one right from the start and therefore watered the value down due to oversupply.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I think the MWR charters were sold for 5 million each but IDK how much less they would be worth today. Nascar botched the release of the charters giving just about everyone that wanted one right from the start and therefore watered the value down due to oversupply.
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Charters were granted to all qualified owners on terms agreed to / insisted upon with and by the RTA. All current charter holders are members of the RTA.

See how that works?
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I think the MWR charters were sold for 5 million each but IDK how much less they would be worth today. Nascar botched the release of the charters giving just about everyone that wanted one right from the start and therefore watered the value down due to oversupply.
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Charters have caused too much risk for new, uncharted teams to get in. This, combined with difficult times on the sponsorship market, could be a deadly combination. Add it to the list of destructive policies BF created in the name of making NASCAR "just like other sports."
 
aunty dive said:
Charters were granted to all qualified owners on terms agreed to / insisted upon with and by the RTA. All current charter holders are members of the RTA.

See how that works?
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I can dig it, man, but I still think Nascar went about it the wrong way as the halcyon days are long gone and instead of being a demand there is an oversupply. Maybe you and Brian think an oversupply is a good thing but I do not.
 
BF rubber-stamped the charters. He had nothing to do with their creation or implementation.

The wealthy individuals who did those things have taken a rather longer view. In the meantime, a charter pays more week to week than a non-charter team earns. There's a method to the madness. They'll be down to 36 entries in due course each of which will be chartered. MLB. NFL. NBA. NHL. Soccer, Lacrosse and on and on ad infinitum.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I can dig it, man, but I still think Nascar went about it the wrong way as the halcyon days are long gone and instead of being a demand there is an oversupply. Maybe you and Brian think an oversupply is a good thing but I do not.
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I don't think along with Mr. France. He's a bit player in this deal anyway.
 
29-4 said:
Charters have caused too much risk for new, uncharted teams to get in. This, combined with difficult times on the sponsorship market, could be a deadly combination. Add it to the list of destructive policies BF created in the name of making NASCAR "just like other sports."
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Looking back I think Rob Kauffman just wanted to get paid and somehow he convinced Nascar and the team owners that doing it the way they did was the right way. Will we ever see the day when there are less cars in the field then charters initially distributed? I have no way of knowing but I would not be surprised if it did happen that way.
 
aunty dive said:
BF rubber-stamped the charters. He had nothing to do with their creation or implementation.

The wealthy individuals who did those things have taken a rather longer view. In the meantime, a charter pays more week to week than a non-charter team earns. There's a method to the madness. They'll be down to 36 entries in due course each of which will be chartered. MLB. NFL. NBA. NHL. Soccer, Lacrosse and on and on ad infinitum.
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And then the charters go poof when the TV contract expires so essentially charter lessees have control of what they do with them until that time and then Nascar gets them back unless something changed I am unaware of.
 
aunty dive said:
BF rubber-stamped the charters. He had nothing to do with their creation or implementation.
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This is almost certainly correct. The RTA is behind the charters, and ideally the Frances wish the RTA didn't exist and aren't keen on collectivism among team owners for obvious reasons.

aunty dive said:
The wealthy individuals who did those things have taken a rather longer view. In the meantime, a charter pays more week to week than a non-charter team earns. There's a method to the madness. They'll be down to 36 entries in due course each of which will be chartered. MLB. NFL. NBA. NHL. Soccer, Lacrosse and on and on ad infinitum.
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Also true, there is methodology being employed. It remains to be seen whether this model and the continual impulse to emulate sports leagues will succeed. There are too many crucial differences to go into between racing teams and what constitutes a baseball or football or hockey franchise headquartered in a local market in which other owners don't geographically compete. NASCAR team owners obviously have shared interests, and pursuing those collectively is smart for them to do. But what is good for the top 4-6 owners who are calling the shots may or may not be good for the sport as a whole. We'll see.
 
aunty dive said:
BF rubber-stamped the charters. He had nothing to do with their creation or implementation.
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A strong leader could have put his foot down if he believed it was bad for the sport (think Bill Sr and Talladega 1969). BF doesn't get a pass in my book.
 
If the Jacksonville Jaguars and the Arizona Cardinals fold and go out of business at the end of this season, that has an immediate negative impact on the Dallas Cowboys and New England Patriots and every other team in the league. That would be bad for them, they don't want that. The league, meaning the teams, would likely pool resources to keep endangered franchises afloat.

If Roush Fenway and pick another team, say RCR, go out of business, that is not necessarily bad for Hendrick, Gibbs, and Penske. Maybe it's an opening for them to lobby NASCAR to allow five cars per team to fill the field. The owners have a long, long way to go to create a franchise system that works as franchise systems are supposed to.

The 32 NFL teams share revenue heavily, and when one succeeds financially, they all benefit. They are truly invested in each others' success, and the team owners appoint a commissioner to oversee the sport who is their employee.

This will never happen in NASCAR. Can you imagine Brian France reporting to the team owners, who can fire him anytime they want? The only way it happens is if the RTA eventually walks on the Frances and creates their own series, like F1 constructors have threatened to do several times. Boy would that be a bloody mess.
 
29-4 said:
A strong leader could have put his foot down if he believed it was bad for the sport (think Bill Sr and Talladega 1969). BF doesn't get a pass in my book.
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Professionalism is creeping into the structure and management of our favourite sport.

Sometimes people in France's position are unaware of a new paradigm until it's too late.

For them.
 
gnomesayin said:
If the Jacksonville Jaguars and the Arizona Cardinals fold and go out of business at the end of this season, that has an immediate negative impact on the Dallas Cowboys and New England Patriots and every other team in the league. That would be bad for them, they don't want that. The league, meaning the teams, would likely pool resources to keep endangered franchises afloat.

If Roush Fenway and pick another team, say RCR, go out of business, that is not necessarily bad for Hendrick, Gibbs, and Penske. Maybe it's an opening for them to lobby NASCAR to allow five cars per team to fill the field. The owners have a long, long way to go to create a franchise system that works as franchise systems are supposed to.

The 32 NFL teams share revenue heavily, and when one succeeds financially, they all benefit. They are truly invested in each others' success, and the team owners appoint a commissioner to oversee the sport who is their employee.

This will never happen in NASCAR. Can you imagine Brian France reporting to the team owners, who can fire him anytime they want? The only way it happens is if the RTA eventually walks on the Frances and creates their own series, like F1 constructors have threatened to do several times. Boy would that be a bloody mess.
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Or buys the family out.
 
Barbara Charles said:
Back to the thread topic, Biffle is 47 years old. What is the big deal about getting cut loose? It does not go on forever.
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He didn't get cut loose, he quit. Many people feel bad for him because he displayed loyalty when the team's other star drivers didn't (they were smart to walk), and he lived out his last competitive years on a bad team. That's it.
 
29-4 said:
Is 33 set in stone? I Googled around but can't find anything saying it is. That's the discrepancy between our numbers.
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Nah not set but falk said they were seperating from LFR and they own a charter
 
aunty dive said:
BF rubber-stamped the charters. He had nothing to do with their creation or implementation.
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I don't think this is correct. Certainly the RTA initiated the concept and the process. But BZF and the Nascar shareholders (Jim France and Lesa France Kennedy) were crucial to the process actually advancing to the finish line. BZF was aware that his most strategic asset (supply of race teams to put on the weekly show) was at risk of drying up under the status quo. This risk had not existed since the early formative years of Nascar, but by 2015 it did exist in a very serious way. That is why the RTA found a receptive counter-party in Brian France and Nascar.
 
I've been a Roush fan since the IMSA/Trans Am days. I was thrilled when he decided to give NASCAR a shot with Mark. He succeeded in NASCAR like he did in everything else but alas, everything has to come to an end and I'm afraid this is it. Biff hung around way to long and I hope he has success like Kenseth and Edwards.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Looking back I think Rob Kauffman just wanted to get paid and somehow he convinced Nascar and the team owners that doing it the way they did was the right way. Will we ever see the day when there are less cars in the field then charters initially distributed? I have no way of knowing but I would not be surprised if it did happen that way.
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You make a good point. He introduced the charters and then cashed out for $10 million.
 
aunty dive said:
BF rubber-stamped the charters. He had nothing to do with their creation or implementation.
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LewTheShoe said:
I don't think this is correct. Certainly the RTA initiated the concept and the process. But BZF and the Nascar shareholders (Jim France and Lesa France Kennedy) were crucial to the process actually advancing to the finish line. BZF was aware that his most strategic asset (supply of race teams to put on the weekly show) was at risk of drying up under the status quo. This risk had not existed since the early formative years of Nascar, but by 2015 it did exist in a very serious way. That is why the RTA found a receptive counter-party in Brian France and Nascar.
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I said it in 2 sentences.

You said the same thing in 5, the last 4 of which contradict the 1st. I'm glad we agree. :D

He was painted into a corner. No way out. Not exactly crucial to the process.
 
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be9ak7ts16 said:
I've been a Roush fan since the IMSA/Trans Am days. I was thrilled when he decided to give NASCAR a shot with Mark. He succeeded in NASCAR like he did in everything else but alas, everything has to come to an end and I'm afraid this is it. Biff hung around way to long and I hope he has success like Kenseth and Edwards.
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You and I both..... I started with him back when he and Wayne Gapp were campaining those Mavericks in NHRA.... I have always appreciated Jack for his endeavors.... he pulled himself up by the bootstraps and made himself very successful... like you... it was one of my happiest days when he started a Winston Cup team with Mark... I was one of his biggest supporters through all the years until it started to look like he was giving Mark the shaft ..... I still appreciate him for what he has accomplished but... his decisions became questionable several years ago...... Allenbaba brought up some very good points.... I think Mark was a good enough driver to have won a championship..... but.... I don't think he can complain.... he had a very good run with Jack and made millions of dollars... what more can you ask? Jack owes a lot to Mark for helping him get his team off the ground...Mark had a lot of input as to who Jack hired for drivers but.. on the flipside Mark owes a tremendous debt to Jack for giving him a second chance.
 
Marcingak said:
I read on Jayski that the main reason Biffle is leaving is because Roush doesn't have sponsorship for next year. He still had one year left on the contract.
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Yep that is what it looks like. This is why ford signed shr they knew where this was headed and were facing a dodge moment. Biffle didn't stay their by choice, I am sure he took a big haircut in pay just to stay. Now there just isn't a deal for him anymore. Same reason Matt and carl left. Not enough sponsorship and not enough money. Biffle wanted to go to MWR but 3m went to Jeff Gordon instead
 
Just like that Stenhouse just shed the last former sponsorship of Kenseth.

This is getting scary.
 
Barbara Charles said:
Back to the thread topic, Biffle is 47 years old. What is the big deal about getting cut loose? It does not go on forever.
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gnomesayin said:
He didn't get cut loose, he quit....
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I don't think we have solid information on whether he quit or got cut. Thanks to a link posted by @Kiante we have this:

http://www.dalejr.com/radio/dbc/

Episode 43 at 42:50 clearly implies The Biff had no choice in the matter. But that's not authoritative either, I suppose.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I don't think we have solid information on whether he quit or got cut. Thanks to a link posted by @Kiante we have this:

http://www.dalejr.com/radio/dbc/

Episode 43 at 42:50 clearly implies The Biff had no choice in the matter. But that's not authoritative either, I suppose.
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You're correct, we don't. I was being a little too blindly trusting of Biffle's statements. That is definitely what they are implying on that podcast, but it's odd the way they do it offering no specific information whatsoever. Some remarks made throughout the season still cause me to believe that Biffle was getting fed up and wanted out, but we don't know what really went down and whether Biffle would have a Roush car to drive next year if he wanted one.
 
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