Big changes coming

2 Sweet said:
The majority of those rules changes pale in comparsion to the drastic and frequent changes NASCAR makes on a yearly basis. Imagine if the NFL made rules changes every couple years to add a 5th down, make it 9 on 9, and add a 4 point field goal. Then you could argue it's similar in nature to the changes NASCAR has made.

Also, except for the NHL, the majority of those changes suck. The NFL and MLB were better back then.

Also also, NASCAR is nothing like stick and ball sports.
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You are correct in that NASCAR is nothing like stick and ball sports. That's why they can make more drastic changes to their product. NASCAR is governed just like a stick and ball sports and deal with many of the same problems with ratings, attendance, sponsorship, and tv deals making other things. I agree NFL and MLB were better back then but you have to deal with change. MLB is not going to allow steroids again and the NFL will continue to be the no fun league.
 
Simple Fan said:
You are correct in that NASCAR is nothing like stick and ball sports. That's why they can make more drastic changes to their product. NASCAR is governed just like a stick and ball sports and deal with many of the same problems with ratings, attendance, sponsorship, and tv deals making other things. I agree NFL and MLB were better back then but you have to deal with change. MLB is not going to allow steroids again and the NFL will continue to be the no fun league.
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Very true. I guess I misunderstood the point you were trying to make.

Sometimes I just feel like less is more. Not all changes are bad, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. NASCAR is at the point where instead of going back to the basics, they keep making more and more changes to try and fix the previous ill advised changes. It's a never ending cycle. Hopefully the new changes are for the better this time.
 
DUN24 said:
This version of the championship is the closest thing to the whole season mattering, in awhile. I'll give you that.


I was more making this point:
You had a problem with the championship being wrapped up a week or two early, making the last race useless. Yet, if you win and get in, literally every race between the W and the chase is useless. Do you see the contradiction?
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No because more wins help you out in the playoff if you had to rely on points to advance.
 
2 Sweet said:
Very true. I guess I misunderstood the point you were trying to make.

Sometimes I just feel like less is more. Not all changes are bad, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. NASCAR is at the point where instead of going back to the basics, they keep making more and more changes to try and fix the previous ill advised changes. It's a never ending cycle. Hopefully the new changes are for the better this time.
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I hope this format sticks and they don't have to make changes for a while. At least let fans get to liking this format before they make changes that will piss them off again.
 
DUN24 said:
This version of the championship is the closest thing to the whole season mattering, in awhile. I'll give you that.


I was more making this point:
You had a problem with the championship being wrapped up a week or two early, making the last race useless. Yet, if you win and get in, literally every race between the W and the chase is useless. Do you see the contradiction?
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Not any more because others can now pile up the points during the regular season that would put you in danger of losing in the first round even though you ran decent.
 
2 Sweet said:
Very true. I guess I misunderstood the point you were trying to make.

Sometimes I just feel like less is more. Not all changes are bad, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. NASCAR is at the point where instead of going back to the basics, they keep making more and more changes to try and fix the previous ill advised changes. It's a never ending cycle. Hopefully the new changes are for the better this time.
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I think these changes having input from many people will be better. They are not quick fixes discussed over drinks anymore and Brian's yes men are not making the decisions.
 
Team Penske said:
Not any more because others can now pile up the points during the regular season that would put you in danger of losing in the first round even though you ran decent.
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That danger also is reduced in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, now that the bonus points carry over.
 
Simple Fan said:
They really do though, for every race to mean somthing the only way to do it is with a playoff system. Now this new points system will carry over into the playoffs and reward the regular season making every race as important to the next.
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Not if your not going to take cars off the track. Other playoffs remove teams from the field.
 
Not sure anyone can do any good trying to prove any points about the Chase. Opinions of NASCAR fans are pretty well set in stone.

For the Chase lover..... Is there anything that can possibly be said that would make you dislike the Chase?

For the Chase hater..... Is there anything that can possibly be said that would make you like the Chase?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that everyone's answer would be 'No' in either case. Of course, that's just a guess.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Not sure anyone can do any good trying to prove any points about the Chase. Opinions of NASCAR fans are pretty well set in stone.

For the Chase lover..... Is there anything that can possibly be said that would make you dislike the Chase?

For the Chase hater..... Is there anything that can possibly be said that would make you like the Chase?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that everyone's answer would be 'No' in either case. Of course, that's just a guess.
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I'll bitch about it but I'm resigned to it. Kinda like dandruff.
 
Simple Fan said:
Sounds like you just hate NASCAR to me. As long as they are racing I'm fine.
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I love NASCAR pre 2004.

I hate what NASCAR has become. A gimmick ridden business that is pushing away it's core audience in an atrempt to stay trendy with the young folks. The heads at the table care more about revenue than the product. Its asanine, ludicrous, & abhorent.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I love NASCAR pre 2004.

I hate what NASCAR has become. A gimmick ridden business that is pushing away it's core audience in an atrempt to stay trendy with the young folks. The heads at the table care more about revenue than the product. Its asanine, ludicrous, & abhorent.
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There wouldn't be a NASCAR without that revenue though. In my opinion they do care about the product though or they wouldn't be making changes. Times change and NASCAR will never be like it was before 2004.
 
I don't understand the gimmick argument either. It's a playoff, nothing gimmicky about a playoff at all, win and advance it's pretty simple. Now if they were racing on figure 8s, doing jumps, and racing in reverse that would be gimmicky.
 
Simple Fan said:
I don't understand the gimmick argument either. It's a playoff, nothing gimmicky about a playoff at all, win and advance it's pretty simple. Now if they were racing on figure 8s, doing jumps, and racing in reverse that would be gimmicky.
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Something tells me you havent been a fan for long
 
looking for a wiki (cliff notes for those my age) that gives me the important parts.

looks like it's still one race to determine the champion, so I can't be impressed. but...holding out hope...

what's in it for an old school fan who just wants to see a great race?

or is my value no longer needed?
 
klemmabyna said:
looking for a wiki (cliff notes for those my age) that gives me the important parts.

looks like it's still one race to determine the champion, so I can't be impressed. but...holding out hope...

what's in it for an old school fan who just wants to see a great race?

or is my value no longer needed?
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Sigh.

Whats in it for ALL types of fans, including you, is that there is more incentive to fight up front for the whole duration of the race and not just push hard at the end of the race.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Then find something else to watch?
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I didnt watch many races the last handful of seasons, just parts mostly. I dont see me watching more anytime soon.

These guys agree.

2003
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Now
IMG_8599.JPG
 
@ChexOrWrex That was also pre-recession when people were throwing cash around like it was Monopoly money. Different climate. Also with Bristol specifically the way they've effed with the surface so much has completely ruined it, unfortunately. On the old concrete I wanted nothing more than to make it down to Bristol someday for the night race. Now? No way I'd make that trip unless they can completely fix it back to the way it was.
 
cheesepuffs said:
@ChexOrWrex That was also pre-recession when people were throwing cash around like it was Monopoly money. Different climate.
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Thats also before ticket & hotel prices were affordable for the blue collar racing fan.

If NASCAR even remotely tried to listen to their fans they'd hear 3 things.
1. Lower the costs to attend
2. Take all of the super engineering out of the racing & give the driver control
3. Scrap the chase & keep it simple.

Thats it. No playoffs. No overtime lines. No segements & halftimes.

Less & less fans having been watching for nearly 2 decades. Im sorry but the sport is nowhere near the bottom OR a new upswing.
 
NASCAR has always made changes. From 1949-1967 points were determined by the purse of the race and was tweaked 4 times during that period. Then from 68-71 they changed to determining points based on the distance of the race with longer races paying out more points. 1972 they went to awarding points for every lap with bigger tracks paying out more points. The next year they kept the points per lap but gave 100 points to the winner and decreased 2 points for every position. In 1974 NASCAR calculated points by taking purse money, multiplying it by the number of races a driver started and dividing it by 1,000. 1975 started the modern points system that lasted all the way to 2004 before the most recent changes. It took NASCAR 26 years before they landed on that modern points system that lasted 29 years in which a lot if fans grew accustomed to. NASCAR is now working on making the right changes that hopefully stick around for another 29 years.
 
Simple Fan said:
NASCAR has always made changes. From 1949-1967 points were determined by the purse of the race and was tweaked 4 times during that period. Then from 68-71 they changed to determining points based on the distance of the race with longer races paying out more points. 1972 they went to awarding points for every lap with bigger tracks paying out more points. The next year they kept the points per lap but gave 100 points to the winner and decreased 2 points for every position. In 1974 NASCAR calculated points by taking purse money, multiplying it by the number of races a driver started and dividing it by 1,000. 1975 started the modern points system that lasted all the way to 2004 before the most recent changes. It took NASCAR 26 years before they landed on that modern points system that lasted 29 years in which a lot if fans grew accustomed to. NASCAR is now working on making the right changes that hopefully stick around for another 29 years.
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I mentioned how the scoring changed numerous times back in the day earlier in this thread or the other similar one but people don't seem to accept it.

The old points where the winner got 185 points was stupid. And up to this point where the winner got 40 points and it was a one point spread all the way down was meant to be simple and easy for people to understand, not put into place because it was actually the best way of scoring. The new changes give 2017 the best scoring of my lifetime (and you and I are about the same age if I recall correctly) and I hope the bonus point system sticks around. The bonuses give the top runners and finishers a curve the way it should be.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Then find something else to watch?
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I gotta' agree with Chex.... and like you mentioned.... I have found something else to watch.... like.... the grandson..... going and doing things with the wife on Sunday afternoons....(for years this was out of the question)... doing something useful instead of making sure I was at home in front of the T.V. ...... Nascar was all encompassing..... It's not that way anymore.... if I am home it is on the T.V. ..... I wander in and out catching bits and pieces.... I have it on MRN in the garage while I am there working or cooking.... (I have my 3 deep fat fryers out there so as to not mess up the kitchen).....


I still follow Nascar but not nearly to the degree I used to ...... I have been to quite a few races .... but.. that time is over.... It doesn't interest me enough to ever go back and fight the traffic or the hassle.... You guys can have all that.... I guess I am just tired of the way that everything has evolved.... It's no where near the fun that it used to be....No one can bring back those days that we enjoyed so.....


I don't see where any monumental changes to the rules are going to bring back the ''old'' folks like me or bring in the millenials...... Nascar has what it has.... they can change and change and change till the cows come home.... the interest has waned.......
 
cheesepuffs said:
I mentioned how the scoring changed numerous times back in the day earlier in this thread or the other similar one but people don't seem to accept it.

The old points where the winner got 185 points was stupid. And up to this point where the winner got 40 points and it was a one point spread all the way down was meant to be simple and easy for people to understand, not put into place because it was actually the best way of scoring. The new changes give 2017 the best scoring of my lifetime (and you and I are about the same age if I recall correctly) and I hope the bonus point system sticks around. The bonuses give the top runners and finishers a curve the way it should be.
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I think the old Latford scale would have been OK if they'd given the winner 190 points plus the 5 for leading a lap and a potential 5 for leading the most for a possible 200. But I have to agree it was pretty screwed up that the 2nd place driver could come away with as many points as the winner if they led the most laps.
 
Sad part is too I was REALLY lookin forward to DMR's next installment.

But if the races are gonna be segemented on the game as well, I wont purchase it. I'll stick with PCars & Forza.
 
kymartin6 said:
I gotta' agree with Chex.... and like you mentioned.... I have found something else to watch.... like.... the grandson..... going and doing things with the wife on Sunday afternoons....(for years this was out of the question)... doing something useful instead of making sure I was at home in front of the T.V. ...... Nascar was all encompassing..... It's not that way anymore.... if I am home it is on the T.V. ..... I wander in and out catching bits and pieces.... I have it on MRN in the garage while I am there working or cooking.... (I have my 3 deep fat fryers out there so as to not mess up the kitchen).....


I still follow Nascar but not nearly to the degree I used to ...... I have been to quite a few races .... but.. that time is over.... It doesn't interest me enough to ever go back and fight the traffic or the hassle.... You guys can have all that.... I guess I am just tired of the way that everything has evolved.... It's no where near the fun that it used to be....No one can bring back those days that we enjoyed so.....


I don't see where any monumental changes to the rules are going to bring back the ''old'' folks like me or bring in the millenials...... Nascar has what it has.... they can change and change and change till the cows come home.... the interest has waned.......
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The playoff crap is what's killing the sport for me. I quit watching Chase races two years ago, I don't watch plate races, I don't watch qualifying anymore, I probably watched less than half of the races last year.
I'm interested to see what attendance and ratings will be in 2017.
 
BobbyFord said:
The playoff crap is what's killing the sport for me. I quit watching Chase races two years ago, I don't watch plate races, I don't watch qualifying anymore, I probably watched less than half of the races last year.
I'm interested to see what attendance and ratings will be in 2017.
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You don't even think knockout qualifying is more fun to watch than just single car runs?
 
cheesepuffs said:
You don't even think knockout qualifying is more fun to watch than just single car runs?
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Absolutely not. I used to get to the track early, eat breakfast, grab a beverage and my scanner and head to my seat for qualifying. I haven't watched qualifying in years. If I wanna see knockouts I'll watch boxing.
 
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