Bonehead Of The Race

Formerjackman said:
Nobody but Johnson knows, but I think you're crazy if you think Jimmie wrecked him on purpose. I defy you to find another situation going all the way back to ASA in 1998 that Jimmie Johnson wrecked somebody on purpose. Wrecked some people? Yes. On purpose? Show me where. I don't think a 7 time champion with a two decade ultra clean record is suddenly going to decide to wreck somebody to win a meaningless exhibition event.
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I dont think the 48 did it on purpose, but that one was on him.
 
Johnson is almost to his door
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Hasn't touched him yet Menard's wheels are straight although he should be turning for the fence


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And contact. Menard is already out of control at this point..wheels straight ahead never moved
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Spotter22 said:
I dont think the 48 did it on purpose, but that one was on him.
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Agree 100%. As a lifelong supporter of his, I was hoping for a little more remorse over the incident. Kind of like Chase's wreck in practice. I didn't see what he had to say about it, but that was a TERRIBLE move, among the worst I've seen. He couldn't have fit a Yugo into the gap he had.
 
Formerjackman said:
Agree 100%. As a lifelong supporter of his, I was hoping for a little more remorse over the incident. Kind of like Chase's wreck in practice. I didn't see what he had to say about it, but that was a TERRIBLE move, among the worst I've seen. He couldn't have fit a Yugo into the gap he had.
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I think Jimmie knew if he went to low he wouldnt get enough drag on the 21 so he tried to run down his door but he got the left rear quarter first. Happens.
 
StandOnIt said:
Johnson is almost to his door
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Hasn't touched him yet Menard's wheels are straight although he should be turning for the fence


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And contact. Menard is already out of control at this point..wheels straight ahead never moved
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Disagree, in your first photo the 21 is in yaw and has already been contacted by the 48. You can tell from the attitude of the 1 behind them who is perfectly straight.
 
Spotter22 said:
Disagree, in your first photo the 21 is in yaw and has already been contacted by the 48. You can tell from the attitude of the 1 behind them who is perfectly straight.
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without you being able to freeze frame the clip I posted and the crappy angle, I can't really say you see differently, I have been trying to find a better angle, but it looks like Fox's cameras are about all I can find. But the third lowest is when contact was made at least I could see Menard's car actually move from touching. I'll keep looking for better shots.
 
StandOnIt said:
without you being able to freeze frame the clip I posted and the crappy angle, I can't really say you see differently, I have been trying to find a better angle, but it looks like Fox's cameras are about all I can find. But the third lowest is when contact was made at least I could see Menard's car actually move from touching. I'll keep looking for better shots.
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Thats cool, like I said. he didnt mean to hit him and he wont be the last one to do it at Daytona.
 
Matthew2470 said:
It was just a racing incident in an exhibition race. No amount of investigation or debate is going change that fact.
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nah but a damn sight better talking about racing on a racing forum than a bunch of empty seats. The race wasn't too noteworthy, slick track and plenty of rain and when the time was coming for moves to be made the rain came again. I would have liked to have seen them be able to line up what was left and go for it, I almost bet that would have been wild, they had some hard racers left to settle it.
 
Matthew2470 said:
It was just a racing incident in an exhibition race. No amount of investigation or debate is going change that fact.
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I agree with your assessment. What amazes me in the whole debate is that someone has the free time to search and search and search for pics that will change no ones mind.
 
Bonehead. Jhonson. For someone with so much experience, he should know how to pass without having to wreck 29
Cars.
 
Jimmie’s car lurched — that wasn’t an aero wiggle, or a car washing up the track, or a counter-steer after oversteer in a corner.

That lurch was on Jimmie — he banged the 21 with his bumper like a good old-fashioned short-track smack, except at speed it wrecks the car train.

Own it Jimmie — it’s a better look!

But this sets a good tone for a potential breakout year if people are drawn to Daytona to see what happens next. IMHO
 
Good grief there are still folks arguing this. The 48 wrecked the 21. It’s obvious to anyone who actually has their eyes open. It doesn’t matter if it was intentional or not. Doesn’t matter how many trophies Jimmie has. Nor how few Menard has.

It was a racing incident. But Jimmie was at fault. It’s okay to admit it. His HOF candidacy is still intact. The sun will still come up tomorrow.
 
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There isn't contact here but look at Menard's angle of front end to the wall

Here is Menard's angle to the wall right before the above shot. Yeah Johnson came up but Menard if that was supposed to be a block did the wrong thing.
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Ventisca said:
Jimmie’s car lurched — that wasn’t an aero wiggle, or a car washing up the track, or a counter-steer after oversteer in a corner.

That lurch was on Jimmie — he banged the 21 with his bumper like a good old-fashioned short-track smack, except at speed it wrecks the car train.

Own it Jimmie — it’s a better look!

But this sets a good tone for a potential breakout year if people are drawn to Daytona to see what happens next. IMHO
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If Jimmie had his usual season last year this may well not have happened. I suspect JJ was sick and tired from driving a turd last year and felt like winning a race with his new CC. He saw the pay driver, hit him and won the race. JJ has been caught up in enough crashes not of his own making that this doesn’t bother me.
 
JBone88 said:
Good grief there are still folks arguing this. The 48 wrecked the 21. It’s obvious to anyone who actually has their eyes open. It doesn’t matter if it was intentional or not. Doesn’t matter how many trophies Jimmie has. Nor how few Menard has.

It was a racing incident. But Jimmie was at fault. It’s okay to admit it. His HOF candidacy is still intact. The sun will still come up tomorrow.
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yep Jimmy wrecked him, but like he says it was unavoidable contact. I agree, he came up Menard should have held his line instead of doing the worst thing which was coming down
 
Formerjackman said:
The 21 was shoving the 48 down the track because he was out of control after being hit by the 48! Come on people, most of this is not very difficult. Honestly, I was SURE that the 48 would crash after going down below the line. I can't believe that car didn't go around.
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I agree with this. My interpretation of what you said was wrong I thought you were saying in the beginning the 21 moved down on the 48 not after the fact he had already hit him.
 
StandOnIt said:
eh I have watched this a few times watching Menards fender in relation to the wall, I believe he came down a bit and that exaggerated the whole thing. I think the track was a mess also, I think moist would be the word about the track at least. It looks like Menard froze at the wheel after contact was made also, he didn't try to steer away.

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That's really good point nobody is talking about we don't know how much moisture was on the track at that point and how much that affected this whole incident
 
Fordracing7 said:
That's really good point nobody is talking about we don't know how much moisture was on the track at that point and how much that affected this whole incident
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That was why Johnson made the move in the first place they told him it was raining again and that was one of the things he said in one of his interviews..and it was, Johnson wanted to be out front when it did. I know on one camera facing the track rain drops were hitting it on the last restart. No way of proving it was really wet, but when they wrecked it looked like they slid forever before they stopped. :idunno: eh rain, and Nascar races usually turn out like this.
 
Something that the experts caught on Nascar America was why the top lane was the only one working. Nobody on that panel could figure it out. Was it the recent car changes with the increased width to the rear spoiler was one of the guesses. Like they said they had as many as 8 cars on the bottom and all it took was one of the high line cars coming down on the door of a car in the lower line and it would stall the lower line out. I hope it doesn't happen Thursday in the duals.
 
I saw no movement from Menard until after Johnson hit him.
Regardless of his intentions, I expect much more from a 7 time champion.
Great driver? I don’t think so.
I guess wrecking the car in front of him is the only way he will win a race these days. I’m glad he went winless last year.
 
1wkdpony said:
I saw no movement from Menard until after Johnson hit him.
Regardless of his intentions, I expect much more from a 7 time champion.
Great driver? I don’t think so.
I guess wrecking the car in front of him is the only way he will win a race these days. I’m glad he went winless last year.
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nonsense, Kyle Busch cleared the wreck by a hundred feet and spun out..wonder how that happened, Kyle Busch spins out while going straight after he cleared the wreck? ya think rain could be a factor in any of this?
 
StandOnIt said:
... . I noticed with the sliding cars Kyle B in particular I think he was in the wet.
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Nah it was just the Goodyear tire people hating up on poor Kyle again.
 
From the in car camera shot, Jimmie's front end suddenly washed out right before the contact. I don't know if it was the wet track or the air, but I'm guessing Jimmie had zero control over that. Ultimately still his fault, but I think he was just a victim of forces acting on the car.
 
Well I am thinking if both cars were skating on a wet track at 180 or so, Jimmie went to stuff some air on Menards spoiler and without any grip on either car, the air had a part of something to do with those two coming together. Kyle couldn't hold it when it looked like he cut down a bit and was trying to pass Kurt and he lost all control. Sure looked like a wet track to me.
 
StandOnIt said:
Well I am thinking if both cars were skating on a wet track at 180 or so, Jimmie went to stuff some air on Menards spoiler and without any grip on either car, the air had a part of something to do with those two coming together. Kyle couldn't hold it when it looked like he cut down a bit and was trying to pass Kurt and he lost all control. Sure looked like a wet track to me.
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Im pretty sure the 21 hit the 18 and that's why he spun
 
1wkdpony said:
I saw no movement from Menard until after Johnson hit him.
Regardless of his intentions, I expect much more from a 7 time champion.
Great driver? I don’t think so.
I guess wrecking the car in front of him is the only way he will win a race these days. I’m glad he went winless last year.
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LOL.
 
Yep everybody knows Johnson hit him. On the other hand what I was trying to show, and I thought it was interesting is that the track was wet, slick, and their wasn't any grip AND the wet track was a large factor in turning Menard, and sucking Johnson into him. Neither had very much control of their cars at 180 +
 
I don't think Menard sucked Johnson into him. How? Menard didn't move at all either. It was Jimmie's fault, are people really arguing over the fact that Jimmie caused that wreck?

The question should be: was it blatant? The easy answer is no but the move seemed very suspicious.
 
Elliott_Fan_9 said:
I don't think Menard sucked Johnson into him. How? Menard didn't move at all either. It was Jimmie's fault, are people really arguing over the fact that Jimmie caused that wreck?

The question should be: was it blatant? The easy answer is no but the move seemed very suspicious.
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Those are two separate actions. Menard, was turned...Johnson was sucked into him..Maybe turning it around will help..Johnson was sucked into Menard, turning Menard. Now here is the other part...the track was very wet..ya know how it is driving on ice? try it at 180+
 
StandOnIt said:
Those are two separate actions. Menard, was turned...Johnson was sucked into him..Maybe turning it around will help..Johnson was sucked into Menard, turning Menard. Now here is the other part...the track was very wet..ya know how it is driving on ice? try it at 180+
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Johnson was sucked into him because he hit Menard in the first place? :idunno:

What does the track condition have anything to do with that wreck? It was in the backstretch, & it was very little rain at that time.
 
Elliott_Fan_9 said:
Johnson was sucked into him because he hit Menard in the first place? :idunno:

What does the track condition have anything to do with that wreck? It was in the backstretch, & it was very little rain at that time.
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and how do you know it wasn't wet? the indicator I saw was Kyle bush spinning when he tried a gentle turn down to pass his brother..maybe you saw sunlight, or thought it didn't rain the whole race or they called it after everybody wrecked for too much sunshine . whatever man, opinions vary and you asked. :D
 
StandOnIt said:
and how do you know it wasn't wet? the indicator I saw was Kyle bush spinning when he tried a gentle turn down to pass his brother..maybe you saw sunlight, or thought it didn't rain the whole race or they called it after everybody wrecked for too much sunshine . whatever man, opinions vary and you asked. :D
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Kyle was turned by Menard lol.
 
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