Brett Griffin: Garage talk is that AllStar package being used at all tracks next season

Nascar has a long history of making changes to its product that alienate longtime fans and that don't attract new fans in any measurable number. Is there anything with next year's changes that indicate things will be any different? Sometimes companies and individuals change things up regularly in order to look like they are being proactive and staying on top of things when in reality they have no clue what they are doing and just hope they get lucky and hit on something good.
 
IanMcVittie said:
Nascar has a long history of making changes to its product that alienate longtime fans and that don't attract new fans in any measurable number. Is there anything with next year's changes that indicate things will be any different? Sometimes companies and individuals change things up regularly in order to look like they are being proactive and staying on top of things when in reality they have no clue what they are doing and just hope they get lucky and hit on something good.
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I stuck through the COT, chase, chase modifications, playoffs, and stages.

Purposefully restrcting these cars and making the driving dramatically less of a challenge would be the final straw for me personally. I prefer seeing the cars on edge and the drivers using their entire skill set to stay stable. The 2019 season doesnt look to offer such.
 
Me trying to find everyone next year
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Who cares what they do to the cars, everyone is still racing with the same equipment.
I want to see the show, the TV production of the race get back to a point where the current race is what I am seeing. I don't want to watch announcers ( I can hear them) while watching the race. I don't want to have a portion of every race be a "Remember this" from years gone by or even last time at this track.
I want to see this race. ( I don't like announcers acting like some teenage girls wetting their pants at an Elvis concert.)
 
If Chocolate Meyers and Dave Moody are on board then I know it’s a terrible move. But in all seriousness we know the only teams that would have voted for this are in the bottom half. It’s a slap in the face for the better teams and all the work that they have put in to make them as good s they are.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I kinda hate it because the drivers I pull for are coming into their own.

Now their skills with gaining speed by throttle timing through the turns will be replaced with drafting and adjusting setups for handling goes out the window.
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Yup, let's hope this is temporary
 
Mopardh9 said:
It's still restricted, why have a 750hp engine if you are going restrict it? Why not just have a 475hp engine non restricted?
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It's still a restrictor plate if you think about it. Also, critics haven't been criticizing the tapered plate exclusively to begin with..
 
DUN24 said:
It's still a restrictor plate if you think about it. Also, critics haven't been criticizing the tapered plate exclusively to begin with..
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I know that's what I'm saying, why not just go with a smaller hp engine rather than restricting a 750hp one....makes no sense.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I know that's what I'm saying, why not just go with a smaller hp engine rather than restricting a 750hp one....makes no sense.
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I know it is hard to grasp, but developing and casting a new smaller engine would cost tons of money. restricting airflow as they have done across the board is the easiest, cheapest, and the most effective for all of the series.
 
Weaver knows every bit as much as any of us. There is no fundamental difference between restricting power via spacer vs. restrictor plate. The problem with the new package is how much more power will be restricted on intermediate speedways than it ever has before, and the effect that has on the amount of driving talent required. The concept that an overpowered car is more difficult to drive than an underpowered one isn't complicated or controversial.

Neither the previous use of smaller spacers nor their existence in lower series validates this, anymore than approving of a 550 HP package would mean that 100 HP is fine and dandy also, because restriction is restriction. Many of us aren't on board with the whole "Xfinity and Trucks are better" thing.
 
StandOnIt said:
Has been watching tapered spacer racing for years doesn't know it..what a goof

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He's aware. NASCAR is the goof because they don't realize that fans are also aware of that and also the fact that the spacer is going to make a much more dramatic reduction in power, in addition to a bunch of other aero changes. They continue to think they can lazily acquire a flock of fans while not only crapping on their existing fans but insulting their intelligence at the same time.
 
Driving talent..do you really believe that the slower speeds are because they are hard to drive.:D They have been running a tapered spacer for a couple of years. And another joke, do people really believe slowing the cars down the straight will slow the maximum cornering speed? really? With the first shot on by guess tires and a plate they were having to let off when the tires went away. Personally I think while they are at it get rid of the splitter and the skirts, but the owners would never stand for it and lose their precious aero advantages.
 
Hey, maybe driving a 305 sprint car is actually harder than a 410. Maybe riding a 250cc dirt bike is tougher than controlling a 450 on the same track.

No, nobody who has ever done it or even been around it has said this. It isn't hard to grasp, at all, and is literally a bedrock of motorsports of every kind, and why power always increases in higher classes.
 
StandOnIt said:
Driving talent..do you really believe that the slower speeds are because they are hard to drive.:D They have been running a tapered spacer for a couple of years. And another joke, do people really believe slowing the cars down the straight will slow the maximum cornering speed? really? With the first shot on by guess tires and a plate they were having to let off when the tires went away. Personally I think while they are at it get rid of the splitter and the skirts, but the owners would never stand for it and lose their precious aero advantages.
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Removing the splitter and the skirts should have been the first thing they did to try and take the aero out of the equation, as opposed to adding a metric ****ton of aero and cutting a ****load of horsepower
 
They had two or three of them spin out for no reason this season, and they fixed it quick with a taller spoiler. Some of ya need to wake up
 
DUN24 said:
Removing the splitter and the skirts should have been the first thing they did to try and take the aero out of the equation, as opposed to adding a metric ****ton of aero and cutting a ****load of horsepower
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this is not going to happen, they aren't going to let it, I know it but like I said about removing them, first time one of them did this, and the public outcry from the non racers in this day and time?

 
StandOnIt said:
I know it is hard to grasp, but developing and casting a new smaller engine would cost tons of money. restricting airflow as they have done across the board is the easiest, cheapest, and the most effective for all of the series.
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So let's just choke down an engine which is designed to put out 750hp? Not buying this in the least
 
gnomesayin said:
Weaver knows every bit as much as any of us. There is no fundamental difference between restricting power via spacer vs. restrictor plate. The problem with the new package is how much more power will be restricted on intermediate speedways than it ever has before, and the effect that has on the amount of driving talent required. The concept that an overpowered car is more difficult to drive than an underpowered one isn't complicated or controversial.

Neither the previous use of smaller spacers nor their existence in lower series validates this, anymore than approving of a 550 HP package would mean that 100 HP is fine and dandy also, because restriction is restriction. Many of us aren't on board with the whole "Xfinity and Trucks are better" thing.
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Just develop a damn crate motor then 500hp, why restrict it, crate motors are abundant.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Just develop a damn crate motor then 500hp, why restrict it, crate motors are abundant.
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who's to say that won't happen in the future. But like anything else it would have to be tested, and getting the Manufacturers to go for it and the teams, good luck with that.
 
StandOnIt said:
who's to say that won't happen in the future. But like anything else it would have to be tested, and getting the Manufacturers to go for it and the teams, good luck with that.
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It's a waste of technology using a taper or a plate on these engines, why? The cost to implement a lower hp engine would be minimal. Getting the manufacturers on board should be a no brainer.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Just develop a damn crate motor then 500hp, why restrict it, crate motors are abundant.
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There is no economic crisis forcing the need for 500 HP motors on 1.5 and 2 mile ovals in the top series. This is all about some people's idea of better entertainment and nothing else, and the desperation to get people who don't actually appreciate racing to watch again. The savings the owners were reportedly seeking were not to have to run several different combinations etc.
 
gnomesayin said:
There is no economic crisis forcing the need for 500 HP motors on 1.5 and 2 mile ovals in the top series. This is all about some people's idea of better entertainment and nothing else, and the desperation to get people who don't actually appreciate racing to watch again. The savings the owners were reportedly seeking were not to have to run several different combinations etc.
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Well if they want to restrict hp on most of the tracks it makes sense to run a lower hp engine rather than a restricted one. What's the point in having a 750hp engine if you aren't going to use all those hp?
 
Mopardh9 said:
Well if they want to restrict hp on most of the tracks it makes sense to run a lower hp engine rather than a restricted one. What's the point in having a 750hp engine if you aren't going to use all those hp?
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I know it is hard to grasp, but developing and casting a new smaller engine would cost tons of money. restricting airflow as they have done across the board is the easiest, cheapest, and the most effective for all of the series.
 
Is there an echo in here? :D

I'm not of the mind that unrestricted 500 HP motors would be appreciably better than restricted 500 HP motors. I have no desire to watch 500 HP motors race on large ovals at the highest level of racing. If that were somehow needed, another drastic decrease in downforce would be in order.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Well if they want to restrict hp on most of the tracks it makes sense to run a lower hp engine rather than a restricted one. What's the point in having a 750hp engine if you aren't going to use all those hp?
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To a certain extent I understand your point. It is rather asinine to keep building such powerful engines only to heavily restrict them for entertainment purposes (rather than the previous "safety" reason). But it doesn't affect the end product that much, the same power and torque restricted vs. unrestricted.
 
gnomesayin said:
Weaver knows every bit as much as any of us. There is no fundamental difference between restricting power via spacer vs. restrictor plate. The problem with the new package is how much more power will be restricted on intermediate speedways than it ever has before, and the effect that has on the amount of driving talent required. The concept that an overpowered car is more difficult to drive than an underpowered one isn't complicated or controversial.

Neither the previous use of smaller spacers nor their existence in lower series validates this, anymore than approving of a 550 HP package would mean that 100 HP is fine and dandy also, because restriction is restriction. Many of us aren't on board with the whole "Xfinity and Trucks are better" thing.
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the flow characteristics of a flat plate and a tapered spacer are fundamentally different by a long shot. They can both be used to reduce flow, but a tapered nozzle flows much better.
I believe I have posted this before, but two holes the same diameter, the flat plate is the first flow example

 
gnomesayin said:
To a certain extent I understand your point. It is rather asinine to keep building such powerful engines only to heavily restrict them for entertainment purposes (rather than the previous "safety" reason). But it doesn't affect the end product that much, the same power and torque restricted vs. unrestricted.
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They have been using tapered spacers for years, it's like somebody woke up one morning in a new world. 2015 for the cup cars, since 08 for the Xfinities.

This is from 2015:
Tapered Spacers
The big impetus for engine rule changes is NASCAR’s desire to lower speeds (which, it is theorized, will improve racing by lessening the effect of aerodynamics making it hard to pass when cars get close to each other).

There are lots of ways to decrease engine horsepower, but remember that teams have put untold amounts of money into designing and refining the current engines. Designing entirely new engines is a major undertaking, and a risk to mandate without pretty high confidence that lower horsepower will indeed help the quality of racing.

For 2015 NASCAR has gone with the simplest solution: a 1.170 tapered spacer that they expect will reduce power by about 125 hp.
 
We all know this.

Again, the existence of previous levels of restriction doesn't justify further restriction.
 
nope, it's like we don't care what physics and fluid dynamic science laws say we haven't seen it but we don't like it. :D
 
I support a speed limit on our public roads. This doesn't mean that because I approve of a speed limit of 60 MPH on the highway that I think 25 MPH is a good option too. Just getting that on record.

That's the logic of the "But they've been using spacers for a while" argument.
 
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