CEO says NASCAR 'not isolated' in fighting to attract fans

His comparison is epically stupid.

Is he not aware that these same retail stores have accompanying sites that people shop through?

The fact that the customer is not in the store physically doesn't mean they're not buying the products online.

It doesn't even compare because TV ratings are also in the toilet for the races. :XXROFL:
Are you not aware that retail stores are closing? The most affected ones are those that targeted the youth market. Those buying on line are doing so because the retailers realized they had to make major marketing changes. NASCAR hasn't figured out what changes to make to keep that audience / market. The TV ratings are part of that.
 
Moto GP is amazing to watch. The drafting is just incredible

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And they draw a massive crowd ........... until they come to the USA. I think Americans may be moving away from racing in general ... I don't know for sure why but it seems that way
 
I haven't looked into which sports are seeing a decline in attendance but the NFL attracts 17.5 million fans over 256 games, MLB 74 million over 2425 games, NBA 22 million over 1230 games and the NHL 21.5 million over 1230 games. Those numbers would increase significantly if playoff dates were included.

IDK what Nascar's yearly attendance is but I would guess it is in the 2 to 2.2 million fan range for 36 races. I am guessing again but I would suspect that Nascar's yearly attendance used to be in the 3.6 million range so it has taken quite a haircut.

As far as I am concerned Nascar races are relatively cheap compared to attending sports events. It is going to cost me about $200 bucks to see the Chicago Blackhawks play and probably around $30-$40 for parking and to see a Nascar race in Joilet would be $100 and parking ain't no 30 bucks. Another nice thing about Nascar is you can leave it to the last minute before you go as other than the Daytona 500 and maybe the last race of the year tickets are always plentiful.
Interesting if you crunch the numbers a bit.

Average attendance per event:
NFL - 68,400
MLB - 30,500
NBA - 17,900
NHL - 17,500

Based on the annual attendance guesstimate of 2 million, and 39 race dates (including Clash, Duels, and All-Stars)

NASCAR Cup - 51,300
 
And they draw a massive crowd ........... until they come to the USA. I think Americans may be moving away from racing in general ... I don't know for sure why but it seems that way
I know you missed the Indy cars Saturday night ... did you look at it on TV?
 
Are you not aware that retail stores are closing? The most affected ones are those that targeted the youth market. Those buying on line are doing so because the retailers realized they had to make major marketing changes. NASCAR hasn't figured out what changes to make to keep that audience / market. The TV ratings are part of that.

Boy, talk about mental gymnastics.

Age isn't an issue or the reason why random retail stores are closing down. How would you even know? What metric are you using? Stats?

There is a simple reason why a lot of retail stores are closing down. The internet.

Simplicity, affordability and comfort.

Just because you like NASCAR and see the need to defend everything it does, doesn't mean you get to invent stuff that isn't there.
 
And they draw a massive crowd ........... until they come to the USA. I think Americans may be moving away from racing in general ... I don't know for sure why but it seems that way

Rossi has a cult. Once he retires it will affect the attendace, surely.
 
Boy, talk about mental gymnastics.

Age isn't an issue or the reason why random retail stores are closing down. How would you even know? What metric are you using? Stats?

There is a simple reason why a lot of retail stores are closing down. The internet.

Simplicity, affordability and comfort.

Just because you like NASCAR and see the need to defend everything it does, doesn't mean you get to invent stuff that isn't there.
Apparently I did a lousy job of expressing my thoughts. Based on your response, we're making the same point.

I agree brick and mortars are closing because of the Internet. My point was that the only way some of those retailers are staying in business is because they've successfully shifted their operations to the web because that's where their target market has gone. NASCAR isn't successfully changing its operations to reach that same market. I wasn't attempting to defend NASCAR, I was criticizing it.
 
Isn't drafting / aero one of the things people complain about the most around here?
In NASCAR the aero makes it hard to pass. In Moto GP, the aero makes it allows the second place bike to slingshot past the first place bike.

It makes for some amazing last laps as they battle back and forth to the finish

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Apparently I did a lousy job of expressing my thoughts. Based on your response, we're making the same point.

I agree brick and mortars are closing because of the Internet. My point was that the only way some of those retailers are staying in business is because they've successfully shifted their operations to the web because that's where their target market has gone. NASCAR isn't successfully changing its operations to reach that same market. I wasn't attempting to defend NASCAR, I was criticizing it.

Oh, then we agree wholly.

I was also making the point earlier that the comparison doesn't equate as these retail stores just need to worry about making a quick online sale as opose to NASCAR having to not only sell you on the idea of buying their stuff but also making the trip and all the extra costs that entails.

One is simple, the other demands some efforts on your part.
 
Interesting if you crunch the numbers a bit.

Average attendance per event:
NFL - 68,400
MLB - 30,500
NBA - 17,900
NHL - 17,500

Based on the annual attendance guesstimate of 2 million, and 39 race dates (including Clash, Duels, and All-Stars)

NASCAR Cup - 51,300
One big difference though is you have 8 opportunities to see your NFL team at home, 41 opportunities to see your NBA or NHL team, and 81 opportunities to see your MLB team. You have only 1 or 2 opportunities (depending on the track) to see a race at the track closest to you, and they're still struggling to sell tickets.
 
I'm not the least bit interested in basketball but football and baseball are terrible sports to watch from the grandstands. JMO.

Football? Im sorry but never been to a football game and thought it was a terrible experience, or baseball for that mtter. You are American and talking about true football and not soccer right? Just dont see how someone can go to a sporting event and have a terrible experience that didnt involve another fan or something, as most of the time regardless if my team wins I usually have a good time.
 
Interesting if you crunch the numbers a bit.

Average attendance per event:
NFL - 68,400
MLB - 30,500
NBA - 17,900
NHL - 17,500

Based on the annual attendance guesstimate of 2 million, and 39 race dates (including Clash, Duels, and All-Stars)

NASCAR Cup - 51,300

That's not even a good comparison though, because all of those other leagues have dozens of games per week while the Cup series has just one. Total weekly attendance for those leagues is far, far higher.

Total League Weekly Attendance:
MLB: 696,737
NFL: 1,085,850
NBA: 366,212
NHL: 358,360

NASCAR Cup: 51,300

Yeah, no. It's not even remotely close. Sorry guys. I'd be happy to explain how I got those numbers if you'd like.

Want a comparison to another weekly touring series? How about the PGA. Sadly, I can't find average tournament or daily attendance for the entire season, but at the Phoenix Open this year over 600,000 attended over four days of golf. NASCAR could barely pull 40,000 in one afternoon. Yes, for all their struggles, even Golf still draws better attendance than NASCAR.
 
Biggest problem NASCAR has is races are not suited for a younger generation. Young people dont camp like normal NASCAR fans of old. Tracks are set up in tbe middle of nowhere with no hotels or anything really around them. Phone service used to be horrible with Sprint, not sure if it still is but will see at Kentucky. They needs more modern tracks and more accommodations during a race weekend.
 
... Tracks are set up in tbe middle of nowhere with no hotels or anything really around them. ...
22 tracks host 39 Cup events. 14 tracks / 23 races are in big cities with plenty of hotel space, and I'm not counting Dover. Next year it will be 24 races when a Loudon race is moved to Vegas.

SF - 1
LA - 1
Vegas - 1 / 2
Phoenix - 2
Fort Worth - 2
KC - 2
Chicago - 1
Indy - 1
Detroit - 2
Atlanta - 1
Daytona - 4
Miami - 1
Charlotte - 3
Richmond - 2

EDIT - Pocono's 2 races are within an hour of Philly. Talladega's 2 are within an hour of Birmingham. Darlington is an hour from Columbia, SC. Martinsville's 2 are within an hour of Greensboro, NC. Plenty of hotel space and stuff to do at all of them.
 
22 tracks host 39 Cup events. 14 tracks / 23 races are in big cities with plenty of hotel space, and I'm not counting Dover. Next year it will be 24 races when a Loudon race is moved to Vegas.

SF - 1
LA - 1
Vegas - 1 / 2
Phoenix - 2
Fort Worth - 2
KC - 2
Chicago - 1
Indy - 1
Detroit - 2
Atlanta - 1
Daytona - 4
Miami - 1
Charlotte - 3
Richmond - 2

EDIT - Pocono's 2 races are within an hour of Philly. Talladega's 2 are within an hour of Birmingham. Darlington is an hour from Columbia, SC. Martinsville's 2 are within an hour of Greensboro, NC. Plenty of hotel space and stuff to do at all of them.

A 2 hour drive to the nearest town is not close enough. Tracks should have their own hotels if they want younger fans.
 
A 2 hour drive to the nearest town is not close enough. Tracks should have their own hotels if they want younger fans.
So go to one of those 24 races that are in large cities. Don't overlook the downside of having to fight the normal local traffic in addition to the race traffic; Vegas and Indy are a stone cold b!tch.

Oh, and I didn't cite any race that required a 2-hour drive, or even 90 minutes. Many of those isolated tracks do have adequate hotel space nearby. There is plenty of room in Johnson City, 20 minutes from Bristol, but you won't like the price; I certainly don't. That's one reason some fans camp - it can be cheaper than a hotel room, and you don't have to worry about DUI. There's plenty to do near there too, but since you said younger people aren't into camping I assume they aren't into whitewater rafting, zip-lining, hang gliding, rock climbing, or that other outdoorsy stuff either.
 
Biggest problem NASCAR has is races are not suited for a younger generation. Young people dont camp like normal NASCAR fans of old. Tracks are set up in tbe middle of nowhere with no hotels or anything really around them. Phone service used to be horrible with Sprint, not sure if it still is but will see at Kentucky. They needs more modern tracks and more accommodations during a race weekend.

I appreciate your insight as what you have to say is valuable to me. I hear what you are saying with respect to camping as I don't know any millennials that do which is not to say that all millennials don't. Back when I was younger camping, winter camping, lighting and building a campfire and preparing food were points of pride for me an my buddies so things have changed.

I know that good WiFi and being able to use a smartphone are very important to young people. What other types of things would they like at the track? A big commons area where they could hangout? Other activities like zip lining, rock wall climbing etc or am I off the mark?
 
A 2 hour drive to the nearest town is not close enough. Tracks should have their own hotels if they want younger fans.

Do younger fans not want to travel from the hotel to the track because they see it as a pain in the butt?
 
I don't know why the youth are coveted by marketing. When I was in my 20's I didn't have a lot spare cash.
 
I don't know why the youth are coveted by marketing. When I was in my 20's I didn't have a lot spare cash.

It is funny as those with the dough aren't wanted and those with 100K in student debt and making 10 bucks an hour are. I think advertisers believe someone like me already has my mind made up about what products and services I will use and to some extent it is true however with things changing so fast I am always open to looking at something different.
 
So go to one of those 24 races that are in large cities. Don't overlook the downside of having to fight the normal local traffic in addition to the race traffic; Vegas and Indy are a stone cold b!tch.

Oh, and I didn't cite any race that required a 2-hour drive, or even 90 minutes. Many of those isolated tracks do have adequate hotel space nearby. There is plenty of room in Johnson City, 20 minutes from Bristol, but you won't like the price; I certainly don't. That's one reason some fans camp - it can be cheaper than a hotel room, and you don't have to worry about DUI. There's plenty to do near there too, but since you said younger people aren't into camping I assume they aren't into whitewater rafting, zip-lining, hang gliding, rock climbing, or that other outdoorsy stuff either.

Not really talking about myself, I'm 25 but camp at the races when I can. Only go to Kentucky now that they have a Cup race but have been to Bristol and Nashville. All three tracks are pretty secluded in my opinion. I just feel like to bring in more fans my age NASCAR needs more around tracks like that. The campgrounds are awesome if you camp and the parties that go on but something more modern would draw you ger fans better. Could takeout one campground at each track and builds some hotels and have a little modern village type area. Only problem would be they would only get used on race weekends and probably would lose money.
 
I don't know why the youth are coveted by marketing. When I was in my 20's I didn't have a lot spare cash.
I suspect that while they don't have as much money as older generations, they're more likely to be influenced by marketing and more willing to spend what money they do have.
 
... Only problem would be they would only get used on race weekends and probably would lose money.
I was ready to reply with that issue until I saw that you already had it covered. I doubt anyone wanting to build such facilities would be able to get the funding; the ROI just isn't there.
 
I suspect that while they don't have as much money as older generations, they're more likely to be influenced by marketing and more willing to spend what money they do have.

Younger people are less reasonable with their money. I know I never pay attention to the price of anything if I'm in a gas station, grocery store or anything like that. Only time I care about a price is if im buying something real expensive I'll shop around for the best price.
 
Younger people are less reasonable with their money. I know I never pay attention to the price of anything if I'm in a gas station. Only time I care about a price is if im buying something real expensive I'll shop around for the best price.
I was the same when I was in my 20's. I suspect most people here are or were too.
 
I appreciate your insight as what you have to say is valuable to me. I hear what you are saying with respect to camping as I don't know any millennials that do which is not to say that all millennials don't. Back when I was younger camping, winter camping, lighting and building a campfire and preparing food were points of pride for me an my buddies so things have changed.

I know that good WiFi and being able to use a smartphone are very important to young people. What other types of things would they like at the track? A big commons area where they could hangout? Other activities like zip lining, rock wall climbing etc or am I off the mark?

I'll try to give you some perspective as a 25 year old who's willing to spend money each year attending sports events. I think there's two types of tracks on NASCAR's schedule: The slim majority majority are built out in rural areas or small towns over 1 hours drive from the nearest metropolitan area. That's approximately the length of drive you can make a day trip out of. Anything more and you are banking on fans coming from long distances and staying at the track or immediate area. Think tracks like Martinsville, Bristol, Michigan, Dega, Loudon.

For those tracks it doesn't matter whether the fan is driving down a few hours or flying across the country to see the race, their needs are the same. To get millennial fans to go to these tracks, the key is value. Having to camp at the track is a burden, not a perk of the experience. Millennials, by and large, don't get outdoors as much, don't camp recreationally as much, and demand more creature comforts than older generations. Sure, many of these tracks have small towns nearby with hotels, but those hotels also jack up prices to extortion rates putting the whole NASCAR experience out of reach. Plus, once you're staying away from the track you then have the transportation problem on top of it as described below.

So, to overcome these burdens and make the experience more appealing to the young generations, the tracks need to offer far more guaranteed value for the weekend than they do today. That could means things like concerts, music festivals, other non-racing events tied into the weekend experience (come for the concert, stay for the racing kind of thing, but it doesn't have to be a concert). Look what Michigan is doing, adding events on the Saturday before the race. But the guaranteed part I think is the most crucial. Millenials have piles of debt and little cash to spend, so if we're going to part with it we damn well better get something out of it. When a light sprinkle can postpone the race a whole day, that ruins your whole entire reason for going. The days of flexible scheduling and taking Monday's off on a whim don't exist anymore, not for this generation. We aren't retired. NASCAR needs to find a way to guarantee the race is run on schedule or else reimburse the fans who put so much time and money into attending. If they can't promise that, then Millenials won't risk our money, it's as simple as that. Other things to consider would be lessening the burden of camping/attending with electric hookups, wifi, better showers/bathrooms or even at track hotels (if you could make it work financially). If a track can't bring in outside events then an easy way to add value would be to make the Xfinity and Truck races/qualifying free with a cup ticket. Let's be honest, nobody is paying for those anyways.

The other type of track are those that are within easy reach of a major metro area; think Charlotte, Daytona, Kansas, most newer tracks, ect. They have a large population center close by where fans can make a day trip to the track and back. Fans don't need to stay in the immediate vicinity of the track, and the track doesn't need to rely on such fans for attendance. To appeal to millennial fans here, the key is transportation. One big disconnect I see on this forum is (mostly) older fans talking about driving home after a day of tailgating/drinking for the race. One thing the millennial generation has had hammered into us from 5th grade health class on is you Do. Not. Drink. And. Drive. Not even just a little buzz. It simply isn't acceptable today, why do you think Uber and Lyft are so damn popular? Sadly, drinking is a big part of the NASCAR race experience, because frankly I don't think a race would be watchable to a college kid without it. That creates a problem. The main pre-race activity is based around tailgating, but what if you don't want to drive to or from the track in the first place? You aren't going to be staying on-site anyways because you live in the metro area or have a hotel there.

I think NASCAR needs to take a page from the NFL here and from one track I think is getting it right, Kansas. NFL teams have increasingly moved their new stadiums into downtown locations from suburbs to be closer to public transportation and amenities like bars and restaurants. If not, they are building entertainment villages (Jerry's World) filled with the same things instead of parking lots. Kansas Speedway has done this successfully too. Tracks like Charlotte need designated Uber drop-off and pickup points, taxi stands, and crucially coordinated public transportation with shuttles to the track from points around the metro (I think Bruton even wanted to extend the CATS light rail to CMS one time, that would be huge), and then give those modes traffic priority getting in and out. Take some of the excess land used for parking and develop some restaurants, bars, liquor stores and retail to accommodate those fans who don't want to drive in fully loaded with their own food and beer (plus, these places can provide shelter during a rain delay). Put wifi and a festival license over the whole shebang too. If you haven't already, open up the midway to those without a ticket.

Sorry for the long post, but for me the NASCAR experience is just so far off from what I've come to expect from a pro sporting event.
 
... The other type of track are those that are within easy reach of a major metro area; think Charlotte, Daytona, Kansas, most newer tracks, ect. They have a large population center close by where fans can make a day trip to the track and back. Fans don't need to stay in the immediate vicinity of the track, and the track doesn't need to rely on such fans for attendance. To appeal to millennial fans here, the key is transportation. One big disconnect I see on this forum is (mostly) older fans talking about driving home after a day of tailgating/drinking for the race. One thing the millennial generation has had hammered into us from 5th grade health class on is you Do. Not. Drink. And. Drive. Not even just a little buzz. It simply isn't acceptable today, why do you think Uber and Lyft are so damn popular? Sadly, drinking is a big part of the NASCAR race experience, because frankly I don't think a race would be watchable to a college kid without it. That creates a problem. The main pre-race activity is based around tailgating, but what if you don't want to drive to or from the track in the first place? You aren't going to be staying on-site anyways because you live in the metro area or have a hotel there. ...
I'm going to focus on one aspect of your post. I don't drink, so DUI has never been a concern for me. Indeed, I fully support checkpoints outside the track yanking drunks off the street before they kill me. I also don't regularly attend other sporting events. I've been to maybe a dozen Carolina Panther games, the last over a decade ago. From what I've been told, drinking is a substantial part of tailgating for most sports.

So here's my question. How do young fans, sober or drunk, get themselves to and from other major pro sports facilities? Let's not include college sports, since most of those are on campus and the students can stagger back to their rooms. I'm not getting how this is an issue exclusive to NASCAR.
 
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I'll try to give you some perspective as a 25 year old who's willing to spend money each year attending sports events. I think there's two types of tracks on NASCAR's schedule: The slim majority majority are built out in rural areas or small towns over 1 hours drive from the nearest metropolitan area. That's approximately the length of drive you can make a day trip out of. Anything more and you are banking on fans coming from long distances and staying at the track or immediate area. Think tracks like Martinsville, Bristol, Michigan, Dega, Loudon.

For those tracks it doesn't matter whether the fan is driving down a few hours or flying across the country to see the race, their needs are the same. To get millennial fans to go to these tracks, the key is value. Having to camp at the track is a burden, not a perk of the experience. Millennials, by and large, don't get outdoors as much, don't camp recreationally as much, and demand more creature comforts than older generations. Sure, many of these tracks have small towns nearby with hotels, but those hotels also jack up prices to extortion rates putting the whole NASCAR experience out of reach. Plus, once you're staying away from the track you then have the transportation problem on top of it as described below.

So, to overcome these burdens and make the experience more appealing to the young generations, the tracks need to offer far more guaranteed value for the weekend than they do today. That could means things like concerts, music festivals, other non-racing events tied into the weekend experience (come for the concert, stay for the racing kind of thing, but it doesn't have to be a concert). Look what Michigan is doing, adding events on the Saturday before the race. But the guaranteed part I think is the most crucial. Millenials have piles of debt and little cash to spend, so if we're going to part with it we damn well better get something out of it. When a light sprinkle can postpone the race a whole day, that ruins your whole entire reason for going. The days of flexible scheduling and taking Monday's off on a whim don't exist anymore, not for this generation. We aren't retired. NASCAR needs to find a way to guarantee the race is run on schedule or else reimburse the fans who put so much time and money into attending. If they can't promise that, then Millenials won't risk our money, it's as simple as that. Other things to consider would be lessening the burden of camping/attending with electric hookups, wifi, better showers/bathrooms or even at track hotels (if you could make it work financially). If a track can't bring in outside events then an easy way to add value would be to make the Xfinity and Truck races/qualifying free with a cup ticket. Let's be honest, nobody is paying for those anyways.

The other type of track are those that are within easy reach of a major metro area; think Charlotte, Daytona, Kansas, most newer tracks, ect. They have a large population center close by where fans can make a day trip to the track and back. Fans don't need to stay in the immediate vicinity of the track, and the track doesn't need to rely on such fans for attendance. To appeal to millennial fans here, the key is transportation. One big disconnect I see on this forum is (mostly) older fans talking about driving home after a day of tailgating/drinking for the race. One thing the millennial generation has had hammered into us from 5th grade health class on is you Do. Not. Drink. And. Drive. Not even just a little buzz. It simply isn't acceptable today, why do you think Uber and Lyft are so damn popular? Sadly, drinking is a big part of the NASCAR race experience, because frankly I don't think a race would be watchable to a college kid without it. That creates a problem. The main pre-race activity is based around tailgating, but what if you don't want to drive to or from the track in the first place? You aren't going to be staying on-site anyways because you live in the metro area or have a hotel there.

I think NASCAR needs to take a page from the NFL here and from one track I think is getting it right, Kansas. NFL teams have increasingly moved their new stadiums into downtown locations from suburbs to be closer to public transportation and amenities like bars and restaurants. If not, they are building entertainment villages (Jerry's World) filled with the same things instead of parking lots. Kansas Speedway has done this successfully too. Tracks like Charlotte need designated Uber drop-off and pickup points, taxi stands, and crucially coordinated public transportation with shuttles to the track from points around the metro (I think Bruton even wanted to extend the CATS light rail to CMS one time, that would be huge), and then give those modes traffic priority getting in and out. Take some of the excess land used for parking and develop some restaurants, bars, liquor stores and retail to accommodate those fans who don't want to drive in fully loaded with their own food and beer (plus, these places can provide shelter during a rain delay). Put wifi and a festival license over the whole shebang too. If you haven't already, open up the midway to those without a ticket.

Sorry for the long post, but for me the NASCAR experience is just so far off from what I've come to expect from a pro sporting event.

Very well done. Thanks for taking the time. I learned some things.
 
I'm going to focus on one aspect of your post. I don't drink, so DUI has never been a concern for me. Indeed, I fully support checkpoints outside the track yanking drunks off the street before they kill me. I also don't regularly attend other sporting events. I've been to maybe a dozen Carolina Panther games, the last over a decade ago. From what I've been told, drinking is a substantial part of tailgating for most sports.

So here's my question. How do young fans get themselves home from other major pro sports facilities? Let's not include college sports, since most of those are on campus and the students can stagger back to their rooms. I'm not getting how this is an issue exclusive to NASCAR.

It can be a problem for other sports, but not to the extent of NASCAR's issues. It's all about location, location, location. Let's look at the situation with the Panthers. Where is BofA stadium located? Uptown (downtown) Charlotte. While there's a few parking ramps and some surface lots for tailgating, there's nowhere near the acres that surround CMS, and that should tell you about the relative importance of tailgating. That's partially by design as much as circumstance. Again, the NFL and all other major leagues have increasingly moved to central locations for a few very good reasons. At BofA you're just a few blocks from a light rail station, CATS runs special buses to the stadium, and the whole area is crawling with Uber's and taxis to take you home. Plus, you're walking distance from all the hotels and the entertainment district at epicenter. Is it any wonder then why a ton of parking lots have been converted to high-rise apartments for young millennial professionals? We want convenient access to all these entertainment and transportation options, not just being beholden to driving, parking, tailgating and risking it all getting home.

Now, you can't just build a NASCAR track downtown, that will never happen. So what I was getting at were ways to give options to those fans much like they would find in a more urban setting. I'll bring up an example from college sports you're probably familiar with. For home games at Williams-Brice the USC gamecocks run shuttle buses from campus, five points, and hotels to the fairgrounds surrounding the stadium, which I would say is a considerable distance from the city/campus in the middle of nowhere, akin to how most NASCAR tracks are. We've used that system many times when visiting for a game to avoid the traffic, and because paying a few hundred bucks to reserve a tailgating spot for the season is stupid. Believe me, the lines are quite long for the bus once the final gun sounds. With a smile and some free beer you can still get the tailgating experience anyways at a fraction of the cost. Oh yeah, and the team plays rain or shine.

Hope that helps explain it.
 
Jeez, they couldn't find a better picture of Brian? Not even one with both eyes pointing in the same direction? :owquitit:
maxresdefault.jpg
 
... While there's a few parking ramps and some surface lots for tailgating, there's nowhere near the acres that surround CMS, and that should tell you about the relative importance of tailgating. ... I'll bring up an example from college sports you're probably familiar with. For home games at Williams-Brice the USC gamecocks run shuttle buses from campus, five points, and hotels to the fairgrounds surrounding the stadium, which I would say is a considerable distance from the city/campus in the middle of nowhere, akin to how most NASCAR tracks are. ... Believe me, the lines are quite long for the bus once the final gun sounds. ...
I get most of your points. Thanks.

I'm missing your point about the importance of tailgating. Are you saying it is or it isn't? I dunno about the garages in Charlotte; they were out of my price range. I parked in surface lots for the Panther games I attended, usually within a one mile walk. They had far more tailgaters than not. My sister is a PSL holder for the Texans. She tells me for the first several years of the team's existence, it was difficult for ticket holders to park because nearby lots had people parking just to tailgate; they didn't even have tickets. The team and city finally required people to show their tickets before they could use their lots.

For the record, I have attended exactly one game at W-B, an NFL exhibition game between the Bears and Bills back in the '80s. (I've been to three at Clemson, all Panther first-season games.) Since I haven't been there in 30+ years (and have no plans), I had no clue about the features you mentioned. According to Google maps, it's 2.5 miles from the stadium to the State Capitol on the far side of campus. The dorms and most student apartments ar much closer. Maybe it's just me, but I hardly define that as the middle of nowhere. Screw waiting on the bus; I can walk that far comfortably in 45 minutes, with plenty of fast food and gas station restrooms along the way.
 
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Biggest problem NASCAR has is races are not suited for a younger generation. Young people dont camp like normal NASCAR fans of old. Tracks are set up in tbe middle of nowhere with no hotels or anything really around them. Phone service used to be horrible with Sprint, not sure if it still is but will see at Kentucky. They needs more modern tracks and more accommodations during a race weekend.
As much as I like the renovations at DIS it still seems like the WiFi there is terrible.
 
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