Changes to stages and bonus points in 2018?

JohnHill said:
I feel like the trend NASCAR has started, is a really dangerous one. Now they feel the need to make changes every single season in hopes of keeping viewers. It's just at a point where they can't really backtrack now. I don't feel like one single decision is going to just completely kill NASCAR or anything...but I do not feel like any of these changes are going to bring back the lost viewers.
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It is interesting to note that with each change Nascar makes less people tune in to watch it.
 
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me that the road course races aren't going to have stages ............ I can't even imagine how messed up that would be
 
I was at the grocery store last week, and I have this autographed Steve Grissom hat with his Channellock Lumina on it that I randomly bought off ebay years ago for like $3.00 or something crazy cheap, and I wear it from time to time. Some guy spots the hat and says "man, I haven't seen a hat like that in ages." He says he used to be a huge nascar fan, used to go to multiple races every year. He was a Rusty Wallace fan. He tells me he's not a nascar fan nowadays for three reasons. "Strike one: that stupid Chase playoff BS. Strike two: Rusty retiring and that punk Busch taking his car. Strike three: that fugly car body they switched to where they all look the same." (I'm assuming he meant the COT). I told him if he hasn't watched in a while, he should give it another chance. "No way, Jose, that ship has sailed. Bill France's kid ruined it."

I work with a lot of guys who are older than me that were lifelong nascar fans, and they no longer give a crap because of all the changes. A bunch of fans I've met at races all dislike the changes. I could go on and on. Literally every race fan I've ever spoken to says they don't care for any of the major changes made in the Brian France era.

OK, my rant is over. It's just sad that it's now at the point where I no longer know a single person in my life (other than you folks on here) that still has the same passion for nascar that I do.
 
NJJammer said:
They have NO IDEA what they're doing. They're are making changes on the fly now mid-season to stop this ratings and attendance collapse. I'm curious how many actually show up at Dover on Sunday but it's a safe bet the TV ratings will be lower even if it's an entertaining race. NASCAR is a rudderless ship being blown towards the reef. The mutiny is taking place and those idiots in Daytona don't even realize it's happening.
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I think a lot of Dover's seats are covered up in tarpaulins waiting to get enhanced. According to Jayski Dover used to have 136,000 permanent seats and now has 96,000 and I suspect the joint will be lucky to hit 60% capacity.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I think a lot of Dover's seats are covered up in tarpaulins waiting to get enhanced. According to Jayski Dover used to have 136,000 permanent seats and now has 96,000 and I suspect the joint will be lucky to hit 60% capacity.
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I believe after yet another grandstand "enhancement," Dover's capacity is in the low 80s and I know they'll struggle to fill 5/8th of that. They just ripped out all the Turn 4 seating this winter.
 
2 Sweet said:
I was at the grocery store last week, and I have this autographed Steve Grissom hat with his Channellock Lumina on it that I randomly bought off ebay years ago for like $3.00 or something crazy cheap, and I wear it from time to time. Some guy spots the hat and says "man, I haven't seen a hat like that in ages." He says he used to be a huge nascar fan, used to go to multiple races every year. He was a Rusty Wallace fan. He tells me he's not a nascar fan nowadays for three reasons. "Strike one: that stupid Chase playoff BS. Strike two: Rusty retiring and that punk Busch taking his car. Strike three: that fugly car body they switched to where they all look the same." (I'm assuming he meant the COT). I told him if he hasn't watched in a while, he should give it another chance. "No way, Jose, that ship has sailed. Bill France's kid ruined it."

I work with a lot of guys who are older than me that were lifelong nascar fans, and they no longer give a crap because of all the changes. A bunch of fans I've met at races all dislike the changes. I could go on and on. Literally every race fan I've ever spoken to says they don't care for any of the major changes made in the Brian France era.

OK, my rant is over. It's just sad that it's now at the point where I no longer know a single person in my life (other than you folks on here) that still has the same passion for nascar that I do.
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It really is a bummer that today's structure of NASCAR has turned away so many viewers. After watching this stuff for most of my life and putting so much time into going to races or whatever else like many, many of you here have done... it just feels like a piece of me when I think of NASCAR...but i feel sad knowing so many people have walked away... although I understand. Even recently I started this season having a tough time... I've warmed up again but still it is different.
 
kyle18fan said:
For the first time in many years, we no longer get together to watch Nascar races ............ I watch alone now or not at all. The stage deal was the end.
I still watch many forms of racing ........... they start the race, they race until the race is over and the first guy across the line wins. They couldn't even manage to leave the 600 alone
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I know what you mean..... my oldest son is 33...... from the age of 5...... he knew every driver..... all the stats...... we never missed watching a race together....... he's like me now..... we discuss who won and what's happening but..... unless it's the Daytona 500..... we hardly ever get together to watch a race anymore........
 
Dover will NEVER look like this again, the high-water mark of NASCAR: :)

36630.87722.jpg
 
kymartin6 said:
I know what you mean..... my oldest son is 33...... from the age of 5...... he knew every driver..... all the stats...... we never missed watching a race together....... he's like me now..... we discuss who won and what's happening but..... unless it's the Daytona 500..... we hardly ever get together to watch a race anymore........
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Its really kind of sad .... Nascar was something we did as a family but I don't blame anyone for getting away
 
NJJammer said:
That's because the crew (us) are still whispering and plotting. It's time to brandish the daggers and swords! :D
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The sad thing is that there is so much competition for our discretionary time that people just get sick of Nascar and walk away quietly never to return. I don't see Nascar as a sport but more a combo of Keystone Cops/ Three Stooges with some decent racing thrown in from time to time.
 
JohnHill said:
It really is a bummer that today's structure of NASCAR has turned away so many viewers. After watching this stuff for most of my life and putting so much time into going to races or whatever else like many, many of you here have done... it just feels like a piece of me when I think of NASCAR...but i feel sad knowing so many people have walked away... although I understand. Even recently I started this season having a tough time... I've warmed up again but still it is different.
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I had a great time as a Nascar fan as going to the races was a blast and I watched all the other ones. Things started to get worse in the mid to late 90's but I hung in there but it got to the point where I turned from a rabid fan into a casual one. I learned to adapt as now I laugh at Nascar and poke fun at them as they have it coming to them.
 
I am amazed that anyone watches anymore, all I see are people who complain so much they forget how to enjoy a race. Changing the rules or the format doesn't change the fact that you have 30-40 cars out there trying to beat the ones in front of them. Crossing the finish line first is the name of the game and using what ever you have under any conditions to do it is called racing. Including those crew chiefs who cross the line to win. Winning brings bigger sponsors and if they are paying enough the fines don't mean much.
 
Team Penske said:
I am amazed that anyone watches anymore, all I see are people who complain so much they forget how to enjoy a race. Changing the rules or the format doesn't change the fact that you have 30-40 cars out there trying to beat the ones in front of them. Crossing the finish line first is the name of the game and using what ever you have under any conditions to do it is called racing. Including those crew chiefs who cross the line to win. Winning brings bigger sponsors and if they are paying enough the fines don't mean much.
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You make a good point....... maybe a lot of us just got tired of being focused so hard......

I might have just grown tired.........


but.........


it's hard to believe that so many grew tired at the same time.......

maybe it's Black Mold.....
 
Team Penske said:
I am amazed that anyone watches anymore, all I see are people who complain so much they forget how to enjoy a race. Changing the rules or the format doesn't change the fact that you have 30-40 cars out there trying to beat the ones in front of them. Crossing the finish line first is the name of the game and using what ever you have under any conditions to do it is called racing. Including those crew chiefs who cross the line to win. Winning brings bigger sponsors and if they are paying enough the fines don't mean much.
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I haven't forgotten. I still enjoy it quite a bit despite all the gimmicks.

I just wish I could say the same for all the fans the sport has lost. And the more fans we have, the healthier the sport is. It's that simple. We just want to see the sport be as successful as it can be.
 
NJJammer said:
Dover will NEVER look like this again, the high-water mark of NASCAR: :)

36630.87722.jpg
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I see tarps so not quite. There were a few years where they had all those stands and an old stand on the backstretch next to the casino. People couldn't get a ticket if they sold their first-born son.
 
The thing is these guys are already racing as hard as possible, more points isn't going to make much of a difference.

I like the stages because it adds risk and intrigue to the rather boring parts of a race, but the bottom line is there is no other major form of Motorsport where you have 40-43 cars, that large of a field demands consistent hard racing
 
I'm really losing faith with Steve O'Donnell & Brian France up at the top of the heap.

I'm OK with the 3 stage format as is. NASCAR needs to leave things the hell alone for once. Can they go a few years with a format over a long sustaining period of time before making kneejerk reactions? Maybe that's just me.
 
I can understand why my son watches races(Indy 500,sports car racing) but really has no interest in NASCAR.We had a blast at a minor league baseball game last weekend,same rules for I don't know how many years.There was no game 7 moment or extra innings,but we still had fun.All the rule changes in NASCAR reeks of desperation,throwing stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
 
2 Sweet said:
I was at the grocery store last week, and I have this autographed Steve Grissom hat with his Channellock Lumina on it that I randomly bought off ebay years ago for like $3.00 or something crazy cheap, and I wear it from time to time. Some guy spots the hat and says "man, I haven't seen a hat like that in ages." He says he used to be a huge nascar fan, used to go to multiple races every year. He was a Rusty Wallace fan. He tells me he's not a nascar fan nowadays for three reasons. "Strike one: that stupid Chase playoff BS. Strike two: Rusty retiring and that punk Busch taking his car. Strike three: that fugly car body they switched to where they all look the same." (I'm assuming he meant the COT). I told him if he hasn't watched in a while, he should give it another chance. "No way, Jose, that ship has sailed. Bill France's kid ruined it."

I work with a lot of guys who are older than me that were lifelong nascar fans, and they no longer give a crap because of all the changes. A bunch of fans I've met at races all dislike the changes. I could go on and on. Literally every race fan I've ever spoken to says they don't care for any of the major changes made in the Brian France era.

OK, my rant is over. It's just sad that it's now at the point where I no longer know a single person in my life (other than you folks on here) that still has the same passion for nascar that I do.
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I have these encounters from time to time. I was at this hole in the wall breakfast joint about 30mins from the track during Atlanta weekend and I had a couple older gentleman come up to me and strike up a convo.Basically told me all the changes have run them off. One of them said he used to camp in the infield with all his friends for years and finally gave it up. Said one of his big turnoffs was how there was now nothing for the fans to do anymore in the fan zone area outside of the tracks. I disagree with that as there's a ton of stuff to do and look at but it was interesting to hear another's point of view.
 
NJJammer said:
The camel's back is already broken. Only the die-hards like us care. Have you ever met a Monster-guzzling Millennial with excess income that enjoys the show NASCAR is currently putting on? I haven't. Most Millennials I know don't even care about automobiles except as basic transportation. They'd rather Uber or Lyft than drive.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out this mythical demographic NASCAR is chasing. It's like Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster. Does it even exist? My friend has a couple of extra tickets to nearly every NASCAR race at Dover and cannot GIVE them away even with offering a free ride and parking to the track from NJ.
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I agree with this 100%. I'm 32 which is what I guess you would call a millennial (barf, hate that term) and my friends my age or that are younger don't care/don't watch racing. To be a fan of racing I would think you'd have to an interest in cars and speed, you get that at an early age which just isn't happening now. (at least I did. My father took me to CART races at Milwaukee and we watched NASCAR on tv every Sunday. ) I agree 100% in that who is NASCAR trying to attract? They didn't hold onto nor care to hold onto their traditional fan base which in turn would have those fans turn their love of racing into their kids and so on so forth. Trying to attract a new fan base instead of catering to the ones that brought them to the heights they reached was really stupid. I don't get the implementation of more stages, the stages now after seeing it play out are also stupid and unneeded, but there are worse things wrong with the sport than Stage racing right now. I see it for what it is, a cheap gimmick aimed to manufacture drama.I just interpret what we have now as timed cautions, no biggie really. Now with the rumors of more stages with more points? IMO that will move top 3 with what's wrong with the sport, they will be now gimmicking up the races themselves which in my mind the question will be is why pay attention to the whole damn thing? Brian France has to be getting his advice from Vince McMahon.
 
NJJammer said:
I believe after yet another grandstand "enhancement," Dover's capacity is in the low 80s and I know they'll struggle to fill 5/8th of that. They just ripped out all the Turn 4 seating this winter.
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Everything's Great...
 
AuzGrams said:
I'm really losing faith with Steve O'Donnell & Brian France up at the top of the heap.

I'm OK with the 3 stage format as is. NASCAR needs to leave things the hell alone for once. Can they go a few years with a format over a long sustaining period of time before making kneejerk reactions? Maybe that's just me.
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I lost faith in Brian France when he introduced The Chase in 2004.
 
I can't believe.

Brian France is.

Making changes.

Every single year.

I broke my post into four stages, to make it more exciting. If that didn't work, I'll break my next post into...

(sorry, there's an empty water bottle on my floor, I had to stop my post for a minute to pick it up)


....more stages.
 
I hope that's a joke. I like stage racing but it needs to just stay at 3. I didn't like them changing the Coke 600 to four. They have a good format just leave it alone, all the changes make them seem desperate and make the sport feel like WWE
 
I think that I can say without hesitation that, to Brian France, 'All the world's a stage'.

I wonder if he divides his daily life into stages?
 
Have no problem with 4 stages, played out well at Charlotte I think. 5 seems a bit much though but would probably be good for restrictor plate and short tracks.
 
So frantic ...

There is no logical business rational for making this announcement at this time. How is it possible to fully assess the impact of the 3 stage rule changes before every venue on the schedule has been visited or better yet, until a full season has been completed?

These idiots would spin their grandmothers out in the driveway for a half point ratings rise. Pathetic.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
NASCAR's about ready to exit 'stage left' from the sports world.
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For me Nascar got out of the barn, jumped the fence in the paddock and galloped down the lane in terms of being a sport several years ago. There isn't enough entertainment in it for the casual fan and not enough sports in it for the sports fan, IMHO.
 
ToyYoda said:
I can't believe.

Brian France is.

Making changes.

Every single year.

I broke my post into four stages, to make it more exciting. If that didn't work, I'll break my next post into...

(sorry, there's an empty water bottle on my floor, I had to stop my post for a minute to pick it up)


....more stages.
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St-st-st-st-Stages
(Turn and face the strain)
St-st-Stages
Don't want to be a richer man
St-st-st-st-Stages
(Turn and face the strain)
St-st-Stages
Just gonna have to be a different man
Time may change me
But I can't trace time
 
aunty dive said:
So frantic ...

There is no logical business rational for making this announcement at this time. How is it possible to fully assess the impact of the 3 stage rule changes before every venue on the schedule has been visited or better yet, until a full season has been completed?

These idiots would spin their grandmothers out in the driveway for a half point ratings rise. Pathetic.
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Don't be so negative.
 
NJJammer said:
I believe after yet another grandstand "enhancement," Dover's capacity is in the low 80s and I know they'll struggle to fill 5/8th of that. They just ripped out all the Turn 4 seating this winter.
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The was meant to say Turn 3 seating was torn down this winter. My bad.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
For me Nascar got out of the barn, jumped the fence in the paddock and galloped down the lane in terms of being a sport several years ago. There isn't enough entertainment in it for the casual fan and not enough sports in it for the sports fan, IMHO.
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And there's a loaded Freightliner coming round the bend that the horse is not anticipating, head on. Won't end well for the horse.
 
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