Formerjackman
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In that instance, what is the definition of stolen?
Chase Elliott
- Thread starter HoneyBadger
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In that instance, what is the definition of stolen?
Formerjackman
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If you haven't already, listen to the Scene Vault Podcast episode with Steve Hmiel. I believe it is in part two of the interview that he goes very much in depth about the spacer plate debacle and some of the backstory leading up to it. He also goes in depth about some of dysfunction that ruled the early years of Roush Racing.
racingfan7
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I’m just a Chase “hater”, but he clearly wasn’t the best car all year and got hot at the right time, 3 wins in the final 5 races while Denny & Kevin had more wins, more top 5s, and arguably better stats.
I just want the sports most popular to pay their dues before he wins a few more titles myself.
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
Well if we’re going by best, he didn’t steal it from Denny, he stole it from Kevin. Chase was the third best driver that season. Points prove it. So if the second best deserves it also, why wouldn’t the third?
Go to the bottom here, and you’ll see non playoff points. https://www.racing-reference.info/race-results/2020_Season_Finale_500/W/
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
The spacer plate wasn't the only way NASCAR screwed Mark Martin that year.
jaqua19
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Denny has accomplished so much as a driver, I almost want to see him wrap it up.
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jaqua19
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I disagree.
Chase was better in 2020 than he is this year. He was super fast every week this year. Was faster than Harvick. Harvick was just more consistent and was better behind the wheel those 26 races. 9 car was fastest in the field that year like Larson in 2021.
2020 Chase was FAR more inevitable than 2022.
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jaqua19
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This is why a handful of drivers are deserving this year.
I just said it, but I'll die on the hill that the 9 team in 2020 was 2021 Larson without the full season execution. Was the fastest car that year, and according to the analytics (if I remember correctly), he was the fastest the first third and final third of the season. Absolutely deserved it that year as much as anyone else.
2022 on the other hand, the 9 is without a doubt beatable on raw speed, unlike 2020. It's just the execution that's next level. If autoracinganalytics is any bit reliable, the 9 team isn't the fastest this year, and he's only 7th on *non drafting ovals*, and 9th on intermediates. 2nd on short tracks and 1st on road courses. The pace is all over the place and I don't think this is Chase's break out season yet, and I'd argue 2020 he was *faster*. This year, he and the team are just executing the best they've ever been...but in a one race take all? They look beatable and certainly won't be the only team deserving of a title this year, I didn't think this was the case in 2020.
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Formerjackman
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I am predisposed to despise the term "Pay their dues". That was the complaint I had to hear from Jeff Gordon haters for the first decade or so. If you excel at everything you do and are continually promoted to better opportunities based off that success, what are you supposed to do? Suck on purpose for a few years so you know what it feels like? Chase got the 9 ride because he won in everything else they put him in. Chase was hired with the idea of filling a vacancy at the Cup level at some point in the future, and when that vacancy opened up, his resume made him the most obvious choice for the job. Since then he has done nothing to indicate he wasn't the right man for the job.
AdoubleU24
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racingfan7
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Solid run at Las Vegas. Looked like a real great effort for Phoenix. Lol
Formerjackman
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Yesterday was just plain UGLY. They were lucky to escape as many point above the cut line as they did. One more effort like that and it will likely be the 2022 Los Angeles Dodgers 2.0. I would normally say they could start on the front row at Martinsville and win the race, but their qualifying hasn't been anything to write home about either lately. I'm just praying that the experimenting they did late in the race yesterday will pay dividends, even if it is nothing more than which direction to NOT go in.
AdoubleU24
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They're completely lost on the 1.5s right now. They've had some very good runs at Homestead the last 2 years tho so hopefully they can get right for 1 weekend. That's all they need at this point, just one solid weekend. If they can't do that then I guess they don't really deserve to make it under this format regardless of his terrific regular season.
jaqua19
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I think they're fine. Save wrecking, I think he has enough of a buffer squeeze on in.
Intermediates have been disastrous this year and I don't expect Homestead to be much better. Not sure where Phoenix falls into this. So I think the bigger concern is getting there but actually having the speed to do anything with it
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Formerjackman
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I agree, no excuses, if they can't run good enough the next two weeks, they don't deserve to have a shot to race for the title. One of the real downsides of the compressed track schedule is you don't really have time to experiment anymore. If you unload bad, you're probably going to stay that way.
AdoubleU24
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Yeah I've thought about that too, at this point can they even win if they do get there lol.
And you're right, just texted a buddy after the race yesterday that simply finishing a race pays now more than it ever has.
jaqua19
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I'm not sure where Phoenix falls as a track type. Chase has been super fast on short tracks this year, super fast on road courses. And has hardly been a top 10 car at intermediates.
Where does Phoenix fall into this? Earlier in the year it ran like an aero short track, so it could work out for him.
I still think the 22 is the team to beat, and I think the 11 may be as well. Chase has been the most consistent but his dominance over the regular season has been minimizing mistakes rather than purely outperforming. Something's been off all year in terms of speed and I do think it's being exposed a little bit in these playoffs. We'll see what happens. Just a weird season overall
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Dr_B_UNC
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The times they've had winning speed at intermediates they got junked. California was leading and walled it, then Larson walled him. Coke 600 they spun while leading. Texas blew tire while leading. There's certainly a pattern...
jaqua19
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Chase wasn't fast at all at Texas. He wasn't even a top 10 car. Only was leading on strategy.
That race was another example of them clawing into good track position and stage points with a car that has no business winning, or even running up front. I remember that 5 blowing by him on 2 separate occasions.
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Dr_B_UNC
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Admittedly I didn't watch the race that day. Went to Panthers/Saints