Cup RACE thread --- Bristol, Rd. 2

Man Ricky Rudd. Bobby labonte dale Jarrett must be really overrated

And especially Mark martin
 
jaqua19 said:
We live in the moment. As of right now.. 40 wins and a title in 13 years is great. My comments are in regard to elevating him to a top 10 career. As of now, it's not above and beyond guys like Rusty, Bill, Stewart, etc.

40 wins is great. Getting out won by the 48 by 30 races since Kyle has been in cup shows how far off he is from "legend", at this point in his career. That's all.
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Ah, I got you man.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
What do u mean lol?? The guy has been running great and he actual wins I'm so confused right now.. the guy just swept the whole weeken smh.. I guess that don't go crazy over Dale jr right ? :lol2:
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I mean that Kyle Busch is an incredible driver. Nothing more needs to be said. His wins speak for themselves. NBC feels the need to overstate his accomplishments for some reason. It's pretty corny honestly.

Not sure what Dale Jr has to do with anything.
 
jaqua19 said:
We live in the moment. As of right now.. 40 wins and a title in 13 years is great. My comments are in regard to elevating him to a top 10 career. As of now, it's not above and beyond guys like Rusty, Bill, Stewart, etc.

40 wins is great. Getting out won by the 48 by 30 races since Kyle has been in cup shows how far off he is from "legend", at this point in his career. That's all.
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This is a pretty good take IMO.
 
That was a welcome KB win in my book. Huge for the 24. Take it how you get it, Chase didn't get the finish he deserved.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
What do u mean lol?? The guy has been running great and he actual wins I'm so confused right now.. the guy just swept the whole weeken smh.. I guess that don't go crazy over Dale jr right ? :lol2:
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This is funny because you are making an example of the point.

Kyle isn't overrated. 40 wins and a title in 13 years IS a fantastic career.

What we are saying is, his "career" is overrated.

Think of it on a scale of 1-100.

The average cup champion is at 50 (lets say). Let's say what Kyle has accomplished puts him at a 75. (STILL great). It's people overrating that 75 to an 85 is what myself and others find irritating.

Saying his cup career is overrated does NOT mean he isn't one going to have a superior, top 20 cup career. I don't know how to explain it any simpler.

And again, I LIKE Kyle.
 
jaqua19 said:
Just like it matters that the 48 has out won him by 30 since Kyle's been in cup? If that's all that matters, it proves Kyle is closer to Bill Elliot, Rusty Wallace, than guys like Waltrip, Cale, Gordon.. etc.

I've said this before, I love Kyle. Funniest driver in the sport. I don't like how he's been marketed
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No you said he was overrated, nothing about comparing him to Jimmie. I give Jimmie his credit but Kyle is #2 right behind him right now. If Kyle is underrated so is the rest of NASCAR Dale Jr. the most.
 
Truex_rox said:
Ah, I got you man.
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Thank you, too much defense to understand the point.

I think Kyle will have a top 10 top 12 career all time, making him one of the greats. He isn't there yet. I don't recall Tony Stewarts career being hyped like this (a superior one). Johnson didn't really get it until 2008 either despite him winning an absurd amount of races.
 
jaqua19 said:
This is funny because you are making an example of the point.

Kyle isn't overrated. 40 wins and a title in 13 years IS a fantastic career.

What we are saying is, his "career" is overrated.

Think of it on a scale of 1-100.

The average cup champion is at 50 (lets say). Let's say what Kyle has accomplished puts him at a 75. (STILL great). It's people overrating that 75 to an 85 is what myself and others find irritating.

Saying his cup career is overrated does NOT mean he isn't one going to have a superior, top 20 cup career. I don't know how to explain it any simpler.

And again, I LIKE Kyle.
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People like to breathe unquantifiable qualities like "raw talent" into his career to somehow make a case for him being the best driver out there. He very well may be one of the all time greats, but he still has a way to go. Jimmie had more wins that Kyle does now by 2009, and he was considered by many as an overrated beneficiary of the system back then. Still considered overrated by some today.

Kyle's career has been amazing, but there are varying degrees of difference even between folks at the top. Kyle is no Earnhardt, Petty, Johnson, Gordon...
 
Simple Fan said:
No you said he was overrated, nothing about comparing him to Jimmie. I give Jimmie his credit but Kyle is #2 right behind him right now. If Kyle is underrated so is the rest of NASCAR Dale Jr. the most.
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No, I said his cup career was overrated. The entire time.

It's simple. A top 15 career being marketed and showed as a top 8 career is overrated. BOTH great, but that's the logic.

Of course Dale Jr is overrated.
 
DSquad48 said:
People like to breathe unquantifiable qualities like "raw talent" into his career to somehow make a case for him being the best driver out there. He very well may be one of the all time greats, but he still has a way to go.

His career has been amazing, but there are varying degrees of difference even between folks at the top. Kyle is no Earnhardt, Petty, Johnson, Gordon...
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Exactly, thank you. It isn't an insult or a knock against him or his career. It's a knock against the marketing of the career.

A top 15 career is not inherently overrated. That isn't the point.

This kind of debate is fun analysis honestly.
 
jaqua19 said:
Exactly, thank you. It isn't an insult or a knock against him or his career. It's a knock against the marketing of the career.

A top 15 career is not inherently overrated. That isn't the point.
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Top 15 is amazing, but top 5 is unbelievable.

Just like when you go to Yale or Harvard, there are going to be mind-bending geniuses in classes with people who look like dopes in comparison. But the kids are all in the top 1% or whatever in terms of intelligence compared to the rest of the population. Kyle is definitely an all time great, but the careers of Gordon, Johnson, even Steward were/are quantifiably more successful.
 
And I firmly believe Kyle will have his own place in history as the only cup driver to retire in the 60s in wins. I think he'll be right between the Tony Stewart-DW tier.
 
DSquad48 said:
Top 15 is amazing, but top 5 is unbelievable.

Just like when you go to Yale or Harvard, there are going to be mind-bending geniuses in classes with people who look like dopes in comparison. But the kids are all in the top 1% or whatever in terms of intelligence compared to the rest of the population. Kyle is definitely an all time great, but the careers of Gordon, Johnson, even Steward were/are quantifiably more successful.
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Thank you for simplifying my analsis. I don't think he'll get to that mythetical tier.

But I think he'll have his own place right between the Tonys and Dw's of cup heirarchy.
 
DSquad48 said:
Top 15 is amazing, but top 5 is unbelievable.

Just like when you go to Yale or Harvard, there are going to be mind-bending geniuses in classes with people who look like dopes in comparison. But the kids are all in the top 1% or whatever in terms of intelligence compared to the rest of the population. Kyle is definitely an all time great, but the careers of Gordon, Johnson, even Steward were/are quantifiably more successful.
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I think Tony Stewart is so underrated. I always thought he'd end with 60 wins.

3 titles. That's elite company. Besides 2 others, how many drivers have won more titles than him the last 25 years?
 
Get That 88 Up There !! said:
Brad has a legit championship unlike Kyle. Drove his ass off against Johnson to win it.
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nope, it was a 'come back soon gift'
from nascar to dodge.
chase chumpion chips dont mean much,
too easy to manipulate.
race wins are more important.
21 more wins until there is new king of nascar.
 
jaqua19 said:
I think Tony Stewart is so underrated. I always thought he'd end with 60 wins.

3 titles. That's elite company. Besides 2 others, how many drivers have won more titles than him the last 25 years?
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Lol, Tony Stewart is underrated and Kyle Busch is overrated? Do you see what you type. Tony is a pure legend of racing in general, how is he underrated? Any one that underates him just doesn't know what he's done.
 
jaqua19 said:
Thank you, too much defense to understand the point.

I think Kyle will have a top 10 top 12 career all time, making him one of the greats. He isn't there yet. I don't recall Tony Stewarts career being hyped like this (a superior one). Johnson didn't really get it until 2008 either despite him winning an absurd amount of races.
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Kyle could retire right now ............ his record in all three series speaks for itself
 
Interesting saying Kyle is overrated. I think he's on pace to be a top 10, maybe top 5 driver of all time. I figure he can win 2-3 more championships and maybe get to 60 cup wins. That's a great career, and what's crazy is he is only 32! He has 8-10 solid years left of being a guy that can win anytime anywhere. When Jimmie retires, Kyle will be the GUY in the sport. As for those that underrate his championship, don't hate the player hate the game. NASCAR accepted his waiver, said he could fill out the waiver. What is he supposed to do, not accept his championship at the end of year, a thanks but no thanks? It's the rules the drivers race under, everyone else drives with said rules in place. I hate he won a cup with missing a 3rd of the year, but what can you do? I place blame on the waiver rule.
 
Right now he is the best driver in the best equipment....

Overall he is the best Toyota driver...maybe best overall....but right now the Toyotas are the best of all the makes....so you do the math. If their equipment was the 3rd best stuff out there he would run top 10 but not compete.....When Jimmie Johnson has the best equipment he's untouchable, when Penske has the best stuff they are untouchable. So in reality Kyle is great but it doesn't hurt to have the best stuff too.
 
Kyle has brought Toyota to prominence.

To see where Toyota is now from where they started off. Its night and day in trucks, xfinity, and cup.

Kyle has been instrumental in the success and honestly Hamlin deserves credit as well. Two stalwarts of the Toyota brand.

Skill and a **** ton of money.
 
I hate Kyle as much as the next guy but he is NOT overrated. We're witnessing greatness as much as we hate to admit it. NASCAR needs Kyle and we all know that again, as much as I hate to admit it.


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Michfan said:
If only you could have seen it
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There were plenty of seats available for all 3 races for those that wanted to witness the feat live and all one needed was rabbit ears to witness the last race of the triple crown.
 
Did anyone hear why BKez was being passed like he was nailed to the ground after his tire blew? The car did not appear damaged but it ran like it was which is why I was wondering. Also what is up with JLo? I know he hasn't forgot how to drive.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Did anyone hear why BKez was being passed like he was nailed to the ground after his tire blew? The car did not appear damaged but it ran like it was which is why I was wondering. Also what is up with JLo? I know he hasn't forgot how to drive.
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They need Kyle to help with their setups
 
I don't think anyone on the track last night was happy with their car ............ Kyle sure wasn't
 
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