Current Generation Word

[19USMC69]

There’s no shortage of issues with this new car, especially, but not limited to, wheels and tires. Then there’s the fire issue with rubber build up, steering and even suspension. I’m not a mechanical engineer, but in my humble opinion the first season with the new car continues to be something less than stellar.

 

[Formerjackman]

I would like to know if the steering rack components where specifically engineered for the demands of Cup cars, or if they just pulled something off the shelf. Either way, they are CLEARLY not good enough. Another case of bulletproof components being replaced with "Not ready for prime time" parts.

 

[acmerocket]

pinto racks?

 

[wi_racefan]

This is what you have when have no options on parts. When teams were given freedom they tested things and a lot of times designed their own parts to prevent failure.

When someone failed something in a race Monday morning they had a room full of people back at the shop analyzing and redesigning. Now....I guess we'll run it again next week and hope it doesn't fail.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Mispeedway15]

I would like to know if the steering rack components where specifically engineered for the demands of Cup cars, or if they just pulled something off the shelf. Either way, they are CLEARLY not good enough. Another case of bulletproof components being replaced with "Not ready for prime time" parts.

The first year of a new model of any car is going to have issues like this, I don’t care if it’s racing or consumer production. They’ll clean it up fine for next year

 

[wi_racefan]

The first year of a new model of any car is going to have issues like this, I don’t care if it’s racing or consumer production. They’ll clean it up fine for next year

The difference is with spec parts you have it for a year. Without spec parts you have it for a week or two and teams fix it

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[Formerjackman]

The difference is with spec parts you have it for a year. Without spec parts you have it for a week or two and teams fix it

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Agree 100%. People were complaining about these steering racks basically from day one, and yet here were are in September and at least a third of the field had issues last night. If THIS is the model for how to run a racing series, count me out. Where was all testing that should have uncovered and fixed issues like this? People feel the need to defend the sanctioning body, but all of these problems just makes NASCAR look stupid.

 

[racer8]

There’s no shortage of issues with this new car, especially, but not limited to, wheels and tires. Then there’s the fire issue with rubber build up, steering and even suspension. I’m not a mechanical engineer, but in my humble opinion the first season with the new car continues to be something less than stellar.

Mercedes taste on a Pinto budget

 

[Charlie Spencer]

here were are in September and at least a third of the field had issues last night.

So they ran 29 races before they discovered a problem the first time they went to a track? Sounds like growing pains to me. They have a year to figure it out.

The difference is with spec parts you have it for a year. Without spec parts you have it for a week or two and teams fix it

NASCAR changes plenty of things mid-season.

 

[aunty dive]

Looks like Wallace’s steering rack blew a seal or had a hose failure.

^ From the race thread. Wallace’s failure was one of the earliest.

Hydraulic pressure is adjustable to get the feel a driver wants. Too high could push oil past the seal under load and allow air to enter the system when the driver inputs in the opposite direction. Said air could account for “lockup”.

Woodward makes racks for a wide variety of race cars. I’d guess Cup cars weigh quite a bit more than anything else they’ve worked on.

Woodward Machine Corporation - Racecar Directory

Woodward Steering Woodward Machine Corporation 3592 Burd Road Mills, Wyoming 82604 USA International: 1-307-472-0550 USA Toll free: 1-888-STEER-US Woodward Machine Corporation has been in business since 1978. We design and custombuild power steering racks for motorsport applications, offering...

www.racecar-engineering.com

 

[Revman]

The car is fine. Mechanical stuff used to be part of this sport. It is again, and it will go away again. The bitch is that the teams have no control. Tough. This is a new era. I am more concerned about MY TRD engines....and even in that, I find intrigue.....How will they fix it? Can they fix it? What the hell is going on. This sport is so ****** awesome.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I am more concerned about MY TRD engines

I may have missed something; have teams besides the #18 had recent issues?

 

[StandOnIt]

I may have missed something; have teams besides the #18 had recent issues?

Yeah another one of Rev/Wilson rice burners absorbed the wrath of MTJ

 

[Revman]

I may have missed something; have teams besides the #18 had recent issues?

Eh, Martin threw a belt, and reportedly Kyle missed a shift in Darlington....but David Wilson talked as though they were investigating that which means they are chasing something in my mind...and then you have last night.....Fascinating stuff....

 

[Revman]

Yeah another one of Rev/Wilson rice burners absorbed the wrath of MTJ

Yeah, knew you would go there....MTJ was upset with the Next Gen not the engine, but you know, the narrative.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Yeah another one of Rev/Wilson rice burners absorbed the wrath of MTJ

Oh, yeah, I completely forgot about that.

The InterReddTwit conspiracy theorists tell me the MTJ detonation was a red herring so we'll think the problem is a general one, and won't realize Kyle's being targeted.

 

[StandOnIt]

Oh, yeah, I completely forgot about that.

The InterReddTwit conspiracy theorists tell me the MTJ detonation was a red herring so we'll think the problem is a general one, and won't realize Kyle's being targeted.

Raining on their continuous parade, in Gibbs world, C.Bell, Hamlin, and Kyle all have had engine failures this year. The old lady with the bag of lizard nuts waving it over Truex's car have contributed to two failures for MTJ. Water pump and power steering for MTJ's two mechanical failures.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

The old lady with the bag of lizard nuts

Sierra Madre Mountain Oysters?

 

[Formerjackman]

So they ran 29 races before they discovered a problem the first time they went to a track? Sounds like growing pains to me. They have a year to figure it out.

NASCAR changes plenty of things mid-season.

There were guys complaining about these steering racks before the season even started. NASCAR will make SIMPLE changes during the season, but anything major has to wait, just like all the transaxles that have the wrong gear ratio causing (or allowing) the drivers to shift on ovals.

 

[Formerjackman]

^ From the race thread. Wallace’s failure was one of the earliest.

Hydraulic pressure is adjustable to get the feel a driver wants. Too high could push oil past the seal under load and allow air to enter the system when the driver inputs in the opposite direction. Said air could account for “lockup”.

Woodward makes racks for a wide variety of race cars. I’d guess Cup cars weigh quite a bit more than anything else they’ve worked on.

Woodward Machine Corporation - Racecar Directory

Woodward Steering Woodward Machine Corporation 3592 Burd Road Mills, Wyoming 82604 USA International: 1-307-472-0550 USA Toll free: 1-888-STEER-US Woodward Machine Corporation has been in business since 1978. We design and custombuild power steering racks for motorsport applications, offering...

www.racecar-engineering.com

This was exactly what I was thinking. The weight of the Cup car combined with the speed and banking at many of the tracks is probably putting loads on some of these parts that they have never seen before. Of course that should have been blindingly obvious from the very beginning of this science experiment.

 

[aunty dive]

This was exactly what I was thinking. The weight of the Cup car combined with the speed and banking at many of the tracks is probably putting loads on some of these parts that they have never seen before. Of course that should have been blindingly obvious from the very beginning of this science experiment.

They’ll figure it out.

Coil-over Late-Models sanctioned by NASCAR and others have used racks since the 1980’s.

 

[aunty dive]

There were guys complaining about these steering racks before the season even started. NASCAR will make SIMPLE changes during the season, but anything major has to wait, just like all the transaxles that have the wrong gear ratio causing (or allowing) the drivers to shift on ovals.

Allowed is the operative word.

If shifting is faster, it gets used. Why not?

 

[StandOnIt]

There were guys complaining about these steering racks before the season even started. NASCAR will make SIMPLE changes during the season, but anything major has to wait, just like all the transaxles that have the wrong gear ratio causing (or allowing) the drivers to shift on ovals.

The transaxles are 5 speeds instead of four speeds. BTW there was limited shifting at some tracks with the 4 speeds.
More gears splitting the ratio 5 times, there will be more shifting unless you want to throw the first two gears out and go with three. There aren't wrong gear ratios. There are Nascar approved ratios and everything else.

 

[Formerjackman]

The transaxles are 5 speeds instead of four speeds. BTW there was limited shifting at some tracks with the 4 speeds.
More gears splitting the ratio 5 times, there will be more shifting unless you want to throw the first two gears out and go with three. There aren't wrong gear ratios. There are Nascar approved ratios and everything else.

NASCAR approved the gear ratios and then changed the engine package and now they are a mismatch, and due to supply chain and team cost issues, they will not do anything about it until at least after the season. What is wrong with it is the drivers will tell you it is screwing up the racing at certain tracks, especially Martinsville. NASCAR is going to allow the teams to use a SLIGHTLY different ratio (that is one of the sets they already have to work with) this fall, but the drivers that tested there all said that wasn't near enough to eliminate the shifting.

 

[StandOnIt]

NASCAR approved the gear ratios and then changed the engine package and now they are a mismatch, and due to supply chain and team cost issues, they will not do anything about it until at least after the season. What is wrong with it is the drivers will tell you it is screwing up the racing at certain tracks, especially Martinsville. NASCAR is going to allow the teams to use a SLIGHTLY different ratio (that is one of the sets they already have to work with) this fall, but the drivers that tested there all said that wasn't near enough to eliminate the shifting.

once again. Split a ratio 5 times and there is going to be shifting regardless.

 

[Old 97]

Does anyone know what this thread title means?

 

[Formerjackman]

Does ANY of this ring a bell? It SHOULD, because you two posted it.

"Cup teams will test a new final drive ratio at Martinsville tomorrow as they have been instructed to swap drop gears in the transaxle before day 2 of testing."

"They ran with the 5.87 final drive ratio from the spring race today and will test a 6.04 final drive ratio tomorrow."
Bozi Tatarevic
@BoziTatarevic

"Teams will also have an option to test a 6.17 final drive ratios but my understanding is that NASCAR is leaning towards running the 6.04 ratio in the fall Martinsville race so it is optional for teams to test the 6.17."

"update: there was a slight gear change for this Martinsville test but not enough to keep them from shifting."

The drivers are advocating for a fifth gear deeper than 6.17 to make fourth gear unusable at speed. The alternative is for NASCAR to adopt a lock out for fifth gear at certain tracks and FORCE them to run in fourth with a ratio suitable for racing. I fully understand NASCAR and the teams only wanting one transaxle, but the idea of five speeds for the ovals is just pointless.

 

[StandOnIt]

Does ANY of this ring a bell? It SHOULD, because you two posted it.

"Cup teams will test a new final drive ratio at Martinsville tomorrow as they have been instructed to swap drop gears in the transaxle before day 2 of testing."

"They ran with the 5.87 final drive ratio from the spring race today and will test a 6.04 final drive ratio tomorrow."
Bozi Tatarevic
@BoziTatarevic

"Teams will also have an option to test a 6.17 final drive ratios but my understanding is that NASCAR is leaning towards running the 6.04 ratio in the fall Martinsville race so it is optional for teams to test the 6.17."

"update: there was a slight gear change for this Martinsville test but not enough to keep them from shifting."

The drivers are advocating for a fifth gear deeper than 6.17 to make fourth gear unusable at speed. The alternative is for NASCAR to adopt a lock out for fifth gear at certain tracks and FORCE them to run in fourth with a ratio suitable for racing. I fully understand NASCAR and the teams only wanting one transaxle, but the idea of five speeds for the ovals is just pointless.

Don't know how many times I have said it, Splitting the ratio 5 times and there will be shifting regardless.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I already hate myself for asking but here goes anyway:

What's the problem with a hardware set-up that lets each driver decide if he wants to shift? As much as we complain about options they don't have, what's the issue with having this tool in their limited toolbox?

 

[aunty dive]

Exactly. Whatever produces a faster lap time.

Traditionalists are easily and often offended.

 

[Formerjackman]

I already hate myself for asking but here goes anyway:

What's the problem with a hardware set-up that lets each driver decide if he wants to shift? As much as we complain about options they don't have, what's the issue with having this tool in their limited toolbox?

Because in some cases it leads to crappy racing. Did you guy not hear drivers talk about how they could totally blow a corner at Martinsville, downshift, recover and hold people off? That is part of what accounted for almost no passing in the spring race.

 

[StandOnIt]

Specifically running a whole 90MPH at Martinsville with a 5 speed trans, somebody needs their head examined to think there is a way to keep them from shifting. Maybe jackman can talk them into a two speed power glide.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Because in some cases it leads to crappy racing. Did you guy not hear drivers talk about how they could totally blow a corner at Martinsville, downshift, recover and hold people off? That is part of what accounted for almost no passing in the spring race.

Sounds like skill to me. I’d rather have that than a yellow from blowing a corner and hitting the wall. Usually when I see a driver recover from a mistake, I cheer and say, “Nice save!”, regardless of how he does it.

I find watching a driver use his skills and car to hold off a faster one is often entertaining. Likewise, I have no problem with the faster car giving a nudge after a few laps.

 

[LewTheShoe]

I already hate myself for asking but here goes anyway:

What's the problem with a hardware set-up that lets each driver decide if he wants to shift? As much as we complain about options they don't have, what's the issue with having this tool in their limited toolbox?

Cale never shifted on an oval. What more do you need to know?

 

[FLRacingFan]

Does anyone know what this thread title means?

Something about the Next Gen no longer being “next”, if I had to guess.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Cale never shifted on an oval. What more do you need to know?

With his equipment, would there have been a reason?

I’ll bet he never had power steering and I know he didn’t have a cool suit, but he wouldn’t have turned down either one. As long as everyone has the same options, what’s the problem?