Current Generation Word

1

19USMC69

Team Owner
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
78
Points
178
There’s no shortage of issues with this new car, especially, but not limited to, wheels and tires. Then there’s the fire issue with rubber build up, steering and even suspension. I’m not a mechanical engineer, but in my humble opinion the first season with the new car continues to be something less than stellar.
 
I would like to know if the steering rack components where specifically engineered for the demands of Cup cars, or if they just pulled something off the shelf. Either way, they are CLEARLY not good enough. Another case of bulletproof components being replaced with "Not ready for prime time" parts.
 
This is what you have when have no options on parts. When teams were given freedom they tested things and a lot of times designed their own parts to prevent failure.

When someone failed something in a race Monday morning they had a room full of people back at the shop analyzing and redesigning. Now....I guess we'll run it again next week and hope it doesn't fail.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
Formerjackman said:
I would like to know if the steering rack components where specifically engineered for the demands of Cup cars, or if they just pulled something off the shelf. Either way, they are CLEARLY not good enough. Another case of bulletproof components being replaced with "Not ready for prime time" parts.
Click to expand...

The first year of a new model of any car is going to have issues like this, I don’t care if it’s racing or consumer production. They’ll clean it up fine for next year
 
Mispeedway15 said:
The first year of a new model of any car is going to have issues like this, I don’t care if it’s racing or consumer production. They’ll clean it up fine for next year
Click to expand...
The difference is with spec parts you have it for a year. Without spec parts you have it for a week or two and teams fix it

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
wi_racefan said:
The difference is with spec parts you have it for a year. Without spec parts you have it for a week or two and teams fix it

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Agree 100%. People were complaining about these steering racks basically from day one, and yet here were are in September and at least a third of the field had issues last night. If THIS is the model for how to run a racing series, count me out. Where was all testing that should have uncovered and fixed issues like this? People feel the need to defend the sanctioning body, but all of these problems just makes NASCAR look stupid.
 
19USMC69 said:
There’s no shortage of issues with this new car, especially, but not limited to, wheels and tires. Then there’s the fire issue with rubber build up, steering and even suspension. I’m not a mechanical engineer, but in my humble opinion the first season with the new car continues to be something less than stellar.
Click to expand...
Mercedes taste on a Pinto budget
 
Formerjackman said:
here were are in September and at least a third of the field had issues last night.
Click to expand...
So they ran 29 races before they discovered a problem the first time they went to a track? Sounds like growing pains to me. They have a year to figure it out.
wi_racefan said:
The difference is with spec parts you have it for a year. Without spec parts you have it for a week or two and teams fix it
Click to expand...
NASCAR changes plenty of things mid-season.
 
aunty dive said:
Looks like Wallace’s steering rack blew a seal or had a hose failure.
Click to expand...

^ From the race thread. Wallace’s failure was one of the earliest.

Hydraulic pressure is adjustable to get the feel a driver wants. Too high could push oil past the seal under load and allow air to enter the system when the driver inputs in the opposite direction. Said air could account for “lockup”.

Woodward makes racks for a wide variety of race cars. I’d guess Cup cars weigh quite a bit more than anything else they’ve worked on.

www.racecar-engineering.com

Woodward Machine Corporation - Racecar Directory

Woodward Steering Woodward Machine Corporation 3592 Burd Road Mills, Wyoming 82604 USA International: 1-307-472-0550 USA Toll free: 1-888-STEER-US Woodward Machine Corporation has been in business since 1978. We design and custombuild power steering racks for motorsport applications, offering...
www.racecar-engineering.com www.racecar-engineering.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: sdj
The car is fine. Mechanical stuff used to be part of this sport. It is again, and it will go away again. The bitch is that the teams have no control. Tough. This is a new era. I am more concerned about MY TRD engines....and even in that, I find intrigue.....How will they fix it? Can they fix it? What the hell is going on. This sport is so ****** awesome.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I may have missed something; have teams besides the #18 had recent issues?
Click to expand...
Eh, Martin threw a belt, and reportedly Kyle missed a shift in Darlington....but David Wilson talked as though they were investigating that which means they are chasing something in my mind...and then you have last night.....Fascinating stuff....
 
StandOnIt said:
Yeah another one of Rev/Wilson rice burners absorbed the wrath of MTJ

Click to expand...

Yeah, knew you would go there....MTJ was upset with the Next Gen not the engine, but you know, the narrative.
 
StandOnIt said:
Yeah another one of Rev/Wilson rice burners absorbed the wrath of MTJ

Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, I completely forgot about that.

The InterReddTwit conspiracy theorists tell me the MTJ detonation was a red herring so we'll think the problem is a general one, and won't realize Kyle's being targeted.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Oh, yeah, I completely forgot about that.

The InterReddTwit conspiracy theorists tell me the MTJ detonation was a red herring so we'll think the problem is a general one, and won't realize Kyle's being targeted.
Click to expand...
Raining on their continuous parade, in Gibbs world, C.Bell, Hamlin, and Kyle all have had engine failures this year. The old lady with the bag of lizard nuts waving it over Truex's car have contributed to two failures for MTJ. Water pump and power steering for MTJ's two mechanical failures.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
So they ran 29 races before they discovered a problem the first time they went to a track? Sounds like growing pains to me. They have a year to figure it out.

NASCAR changes plenty of things mid-season.
Click to expand...
There were guys complaining about these steering racks before the season even started. NASCAR will make SIMPLE changes during the season, but anything major has to wait, just like all the transaxles that have the wrong gear ratio causing (or allowing) the drivers to shift on ovals.
 
aunty dive said:
^ From the race thread. Wallace’s failure was one of the earliest.

Hydraulic pressure is adjustable to get the feel a driver wants. Too high could push oil past the seal under load and allow air to enter the system when the driver inputs in the opposite direction. Said air could account for “lockup”.

Woodward makes racks for a wide variety of race cars. I’d guess Cup cars weigh quite a bit more than anything else they’ve worked on.

www.racecar-engineering.com

Woodward Machine Corporation - Racecar Directory

Woodward Steering Woodward Machine Corporation 3592 Burd Road Mills, Wyoming 82604 USA International: 1-307-472-0550 USA Toll free: 1-888-STEER-US Woodward Machine Corporation has been in business since 1978. We design and custombuild power steering racks for motorsport applications, offering...
www.racecar-engineering.com www.racecar-engineering.com
Click to expand...
This was exactly what I was thinking. The weight of the Cup car combined with the speed and banking at many of the tracks is probably putting loads on some of these parts that they have never seen before. Of course that should have been blindingly obvious from the very beginning of this science experiment.
 
Formerjackman said:
This was exactly what I was thinking. The weight of the Cup car combined with the speed and banking at many of the tracks is probably putting loads on some of these parts that they have never seen before. Of course that should have been blindingly obvious from the very beginning of this science experiment.
Click to expand...
They’ll figure it out.

Coil-over Late-Models sanctioned by NASCAR and others have used racks since the 1980’s.
 
Formerjackman said:
There were guys complaining about these steering racks before the season even started. NASCAR will make SIMPLE changes during the season, but anything major has to wait, just like all the transaxles that have the wrong gear ratio causing (or allowing) the drivers to shift on ovals.
Click to expand...
Allowed is the operative word.

If shifting is faster, it gets used. Why not?
 
Formerjackman said:
There were guys complaining about these steering racks before the season even started. NASCAR will make SIMPLE changes during the season, but anything major has to wait, just like all the transaxles that have the wrong gear ratio causing (or allowing) the drivers to shift on ovals.
Click to expand...
The transaxles are 5 speeds instead of four speeds. BTW there was limited shifting at some tracks with the 4 speeds.
More gears splitting the ratio 5 times, there will be more shifting unless you want to throw the first two gears out and go with three. There aren't wrong gear ratios. There are Nascar approved ratios and everything else.
 
StandOnIt said:
The transaxles are 5 speeds instead of four speeds. BTW there was limited shifting at some tracks with the 4 speeds.
More gears splitting the ratio 5 times, there will be more shifting unless you want to throw the first two gears out and go with three. There aren't wrong gear ratios. There are Nascar approved ratios and everything else.
Click to expand...

NASCAR approved the gear ratios and then changed the engine package and now they are a mismatch, and due to supply chain and team cost issues, they will not do anything about it until at least after the season. What is wrong with it is the drivers will tell you it is screwing up the racing at certain tracks, especially Martinsville. NASCAR is going to allow the teams to use a SLIGHTLY different ratio (that is one of the sets they already have to work with) this fall, but the drivers that tested there all said that wasn't near enough to eliminate the shifting.
 
Formerjackman said:
NASCAR approved the gear ratios and then changed the engine package and now they are a mismatch, and due to supply chain and team cost issues, they will not do anything about it until at least after the season. What is wrong with it is the drivers will tell you it is screwing up the racing at certain tracks, especially Martinsville. NASCAR is going to allow the teams to use a SLIGHTLY different ratio (that is one of the sets they already have to work with) this fall, but the drivers that tested there all said that wasn't near enough to eliminate the shifting.
Click to expand...
once again. Split a ratio 5 times and there is going to be shifting regardless.
 
Does ANY of this ring a bell? It SHOULD, because you two posted it.

"Cup teams will test a new final drive ratio at Martinsville tomorrow as they have been instructed to swap drop gears in the transaxle before day 2 of testing."

"They ran with the 5.87 final drive ratio from the spring race today and will test a 6.04 final drive ratio tomorrow."
Bozi Tatarevic
@BoziTatarevic

"Teams will also have an option to test a 6.17 final drive ratios but my understanding is that NASCAR is leaning towards running the 6.04 ratio in the fall Martinsville race so it is optional for teams to test the 6.17."

"update: there was a slight gear change for this Martinsville test but not enough to keep them from shifting."

The drivers are advocating for a fifth gear deeper than 6.17 to make fourth gear unusable at speed. The alternative is for NASCAR to adopt a lock out for fifth gear at certain tracks and FORCE them to run in fourth with a ratio suitable for racing. I fully understand NASCAR and the teams only wanting one transaxle, but the idea of five speeds for the ovals is just pointless.
 
Formerjackman said:
Does ANY of this ring a bell? It SHOULD, because you two posted it.

"Cup teams will test a new final drive ratio at Martinsville tomorrow as they have been instructed to swap drop gears in the transaxle before day 2 of testing."

"They ran with the 5.87 final drive ratio from the spring race today and will test a 6.04 final drive ratio tomorrow."
Bozi Tatarevic
@BoziTatarevic

"Teams will also have an option to test a 6.17 final drive ratios but my understanding is that NASCAR is leaning towards running the 6.04 ratio in the fall Martinsville race so it is optional for teams to test the 6.17."

"update: there was a slight gear change for this Martinsville test but not enough to keep them from shifting."

The drivers are advocating for a fifth gear deeper than 6.17 to make fourth gear unusable at speed. The alternative is for NASCAR to adopt a lock out for fifth gear at certain tracks and FORCE them to run in fourth with a ratio suitable for racing. I fully understand NASCAR and the teams only wanting one transaxle, but the idea of five speeds for the ovals is just pointless.
Click to expand...

Don't know how many times I have said it, Splitting the ratio 5 times and there will be shifting regardless.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I already hate myself for asking but here goes anyway:

What's the problem with a hardware set-up that lets each driver decide if he wants to shift? As much as we complain about options they don't have, what's the issue with having this tool in their limited toolbox?
Click to expand...

Because in some cases it leads to crappy racing. Did you guy not hear drivers talk about how they could totally blow a corner at Martinsville, downshift, recover and hold people off? That is part of what accounted for almost no passing in the spring race.
 
Specifically running a whole 90MPH at Martinsville with a 5 speed trans, somebody needs their head examined to think there is a way to keep them from shifting. Maybe jackman can talk them into a two speed power glide.
 
Formerjackman said:
Because in some cases it leads to crappy racing. Did you guy not hear drivers talk about how they could totally blow a corner at Martinsville, downshift, recover and hold people off? That is part of what accounted for almost no passing in the spring race.
Click to expand...
Sounds like skill to me. I’d rather have that than a yellow from blowing a corner and hitting the wall. Usually when I see a driver recover from a mistake, I cheer and say, “Nice save!”, regardless of how he does it.

I find watching a driver use his skills and car to hold off a faster one is often entertaining. Likewise, I have no problem with the faster car giving a nudge after a few laps.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I already hate myself for asking but here goes anyway:

What's the problem with a hardware set-up that lets each driver decide if he wants to shift? As much as we complain about options they don't have, what's the issue with having this tool in their limited toolbox?
Click to expand...
Cale never shifted on an oval. What more do you need to know?
 
LewTheShoe said:
Cale never shifted on an oval. What more do you need to know?
Click to expand...
With his equipment, would there have been a reason?

I’ll bet he never had power steering and I know he didn’t have a cool suit, but he wouldn’t have turned down either one. As long as everyone has the same options, what’s the problem?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom