David Wilson was “disappointed”

Charlie Spencer

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Since a 24 hour race has several different drivers maybe they can compromise and allow drivers from other manufacturers?
NASCAR doesn't normally schedule around this like other series do. There's already the question of how active HMS drivers will fit this in.
 

cheesepuffs

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NASCAR doesn't normally schedule around this like other series do. There's already the question of how active HMS drivers will fit this in.
There's zero chance that NASCAR doesn't take full advantage of this marketing opportunity by scheduling their own Cup race during the same weekend. They're gonna want all eyes on this particular event and also allow Chase or Larson (aka one of their biggest stars) to shine and catch the most attention possible.
 

Charlie Spencer

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There's zero chance that NASCAR doesn't take full advantage of this marketing opportunity by scheduling their own Cup race during the same weekend. They're gonna want all eyes on this particular event and also allow Chase or Larson (aka one of their biggest stars) to shine and catch the most attention possible.

"On Saturday, the (2022) race starts at 3PM local time which means 6AM PT / 9AM ET in the US and Canada, where audiences can look forward to start-to-finish coverage on the MotorTrend TV cable channel." - http://www.chiff.com/recreation/sports/le-mans.htm

Quick, off the tops of your heads, how many of you can tell me what channel to dial for MotorTrend on your cable / satellite? How many of you even have it?

2017 is the most recent race I could find ratings for, and that race was on networks more commonly carried by most subscriber systems:

"The 24 Hours of Le Mans auto race averaged 105,000 viewers across Fox Sports 1 and Fox Sports 2 last weekend, down 17% from last year "(126K) and down 18% from 2015 (128K)." - https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/20...1-nascar-xfinity-24-hours-le-mans-viewership/

Hell, a Nationwide race does better than that. Sure, it's going to get huge coverage outside North America. Will those fans know who Elliott or Larson are? If not, why juggle the schedule to benefit two drivers?
 

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Quick, off the tops of your heads, how many of you can tell me what channel to dial for MotorTrend on your cable / satellite? How many of you even have it?

I have it (Youtube TV subscriber) and watch it quite a bit. MotorTrend TV is basically the modern day replacement for Speed Channel. I'm assuming it comes standard on most cable/streaming providers but I really have no idea. Hopefully they will have more racing content going forward with the demise of NBCSN.

To answer your other question, I'm not sure what kind of ratings to expect, but I'm guessing there will be quite a few NASCAR fans watching Le Mans if there's no race that weekend.
 

Charlie Spencer

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I'm guessing there will be quite a few NASCAR fans watching Le Mans if there's no race that weekend.
I'm guessing that just Gordon and Johnson alone would guarantee that.

This year's race is opposite Sonoma, Fox's last race of the year. I don't know how they'd feel about a change.

This year, Fathers' Day is an open date on the following weekend. If the 2023 race is on Fathers' Day, there may be no conflict.
 

Charlie Spencer

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This is Chevy's show too. They have a stable of Indy and sports car drivers of European backgrounds who regularly run Le Mans, may have better name recognition internationally than Elliott or Larson, and will bring experience and familiarity with the course. I know this car isn't supposed to be competitive but I'd want a couple of drivers with experience here over team of greenhorns, no matter how talented.
 

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This is Chevy's show too. They have a stable of Indy and sports car drivers of European backgrounds who regularly run Le Mans, may have better name recognition internationally than Elliott or Larson, and will bring experience and familiarity with the course. I know this car isn't supposed to be competitive but I'd want a couple of drivers with experience here over team of greenhorns, no matter how talented.
yeah it isn't racing anybody, the sanctioning body has performance perimiters and they have to approve them before they can bring it out on the track. No turbo big block Chevy with a big shot of nitrous. (although I sure would love to see that Camaro smoking the rear tires while passing one of those screaming me me's on a straight just once lol)
 

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"On Saturday, the (2022) race starts at 3PM local time which means 6AM PT / 9AM ET in the US and Canada, where audiences can look forward to start-to-finish coverage on the MotorTrend TV cable channel." - http://www.chiff.com/recreation/sports/le-mans.htm

Quick, off the tops of your heads, how many of you can tell me what channel to dial for MotorTrend on your cable / satellite? How many of you even have it?

2017 is the most recent race I could find ratings for, and that race was on networks more commonly carried by most subscriber systems:

"The 24 Hours of Le Mans auto race averaged 105,000 viewers across Fox Sports 1 and Fox Sports 2 last weekend, down 17% from last year "(126K) and down 18% from 2015 (128K)." - https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/20...1-nascar-xfinity-24-hours-le-mans-viewership/

Hell, a Nationwide race does better than that. Sure, it's going to get huge coverage outside North America. Will those fans know who Elliott or Larson are? If not, why juggle the schedule to benefit two drivers?
I have MotorTrend TV. It used to be known as Discovery HD Theater and was then rebranded as Velocity for some time.

TV ratings aren't everything either. You can watch LeMans online.

Getting huge coverage outside of North America is a great reason to have star/champion drivers from the series behind the wheel. Nobody is going to car about some no-names. Nobody in Europe is going to go "who's that driving right now? Oh, some nobody? Ok, next". But if the answer is a recent champion then that lends credibility and piques interest more in watching that show unfold.
 

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Quick, off the tops of your heads, how many of you can tell me what channel to dial for MotorTrend on your cable / satellite? How many of you even have it?
Channel 281, but I had to look

I usally watch it online if I can find a stream.
 

Revman

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"On Saturday, the (2022) race starts at 3PM local time which means 6AM PT / 9AM ET in the US and Canada, where audiences can look forward to start-to-finish coverage on the MotorTrend TV cable channel." - http://www.chiff.com/recreation/sports/le-mans.htm

Quick, off the tops of your heads, how many of you can tell me what channel to dial for MotorTrend on your cable / satellite? How many of you even have it?

2017 is the most recent race I could find ratings for, and that race was on networks more commonly carried by most subscriber systems:

"The 24 Hours of Le Mans auto race averaged 105,000 viewers across Fox Sports 1 and Fox Sports 2 last weekend, down 17% from last year "(126K) and down 18% from 2015 (128K)." - https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/20...1-nascar-xfinity-24-hours-le-mans-viewership/

Hell, a Nationwide race does better than that. Sure, it's going to get huge coverage outside North America. Will those fans know who Elliott or Larson are? If not, why juggle the schedule to benefit two drivers?

You beat me to it. What demo is NASCAR going after? Hell, even @StandOnIt has no clue about WEC with his reference to the GR010 and its relevance to a future NASCAR hybrid system. WEC is an international series while NASCAR is an American series. If this is a NASCAR effort represented by Hendrick....Why would the manufacturer be Chevy and the drivers exclusively Chevy drivers....never mind that Toyota nor Ford ever saw this coming. Weirdest **** I have ever seen NASCAR pull.
 

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Thread title is inaccurate. David was pissed, and he should be. TRD is at least as capable as Hendrick of this project (more capable in my opinion), and should have had a shot at it. Period. I rarely take a shot at NASCAR with the exception of the Camaro 2.0 farce, but I have them square in the crosshairs on this one. It's bull****. Potential new OEMs take note....
 

cheesepuffs

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Thread title is inaccurate. David was pissed, and he should be. TRD is at least as capable as Hendrick of this project (more capable in my opinion), and should have had a shot at it. Period. I rarely take a shot at NASCAR with the exception of the Camaro 2.0 farce, but I have them square in the crosshairs on this one. It's bull****. Potential new OEMs take note....
Are you missing the point that HMS, Action Express, and RCR already have a strong working relationship in this arena? It makes sense that Jim France would go to HMS/RCR for this.

Also if Toyota should have had a shot then so should Ford and Chevy, and then you have three cars being built for a class of... one car. Two makes were going to be left out of the inn for this one no matter who it was by nature of what the project is.
 

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You beat me to it. What demo is NASCAR going after?
Same demo they were going after in Japan. International. Growing the fanbase abroad. The world is a small place these days and perhaps NASCAR is looking at a streaming option in the future like F1 TV (which, they should be). It would only benefit all involved to have more eyes on the sport instead of less. Lots of motorsports viewers across the whole globe to pitch NASCAR to still.

NFL is playing in England, Germany, and Mexico this year despite it being an American sport. They've had games in London for years now and they've been successful. Same idea
 

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Thread title is inaccurate. David was pissed, and he should be. TRD is at least as capable as Hendrick of this project (more capable in my opinion), and should have had a shot at it. Period. I rarely take a shot at NASCAR with the exception of the Camaro 2.0 farce, but I have them square in the crosshairs on this one. It's bull****. Potential new OEMs take note....
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I dont even know why this is a thing.

“Every time that (car) is on the road, that’s shared with us. And we will have that visibility and that transparency because that’s what we’ve been promised. And we will be a party to participate in every test. We will be invited to every test.”


“Stepping away from it at 30,000 feet, I’m absolutely a fan of what they’re doing,” he said. “This has an upside of putting our sport on the map and putting it in front of an international audience, but I would have preferred it be done in a little bit different way.”
Even though Toyota won’t be racing at Le Mans, Wilson might be present – as a guest of NASCAR, which has invited the other manufacturers to attend the race.
“Jim France and his team are working on how best to leverage this and not wrap this around one team or one manufacturer,” Wilson said. “But make sure it’s wrapped around NASCAR. And he would like to have representation from all of his manufacturers there to underscore that message.”
 

Charlie Spencer

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Same demo they were going after in Japan. International. Growing the fanbase abroad.
In Japan NASCAR ran a full field of 'conventional' stock cars; pretty much a regular oval race, just on a new track.

Le Mans will be one car, expected to be uncompetitive, that isn't representative of what's fielded by NASCAR every week.

The NFL sends teams to London to play American football, not cricket.
 

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In Japan NASCAR ran a full field of 'conventional' stock cars; pretty much a regular oval race, just on a new track.

Le Mans will be one car, expected to be uncompetitive, that isn't representative of what's fielded by NASCAR every week.

The NFL sends teams to London to play American football, not cricket.
I think it was FL or one of those guys that follow IMSA pretty closely that said Hendrick may be racing a Camaro in IMSA. France Owns IMSA, Hendrick races Camaros, it doesn't seem that far fetched to me to see a Hendrick Camaro in IMSA. So they all get to kill two birds with one stone going to LeMans for a good test if it goes that way.
 

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Same demo they were going after in Japan. International. Growing the fanbase abroad.
Wait, what? You are just recovering in your home base, and you decide to go global against F1, WEC, and WRC?
 

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Wait, what? You are just recovering in your home base, and you decide to go global against F1, WEC, and WRC?
For such a fanboy of the mega-corp of Toyota, who basically wrote the book on successful capitalism, I'm surprised you don't understand the desire for companies to always continue a path of growth instead of being stagnant and myopic.
 

Revman

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Why not? You have to have a goals and put a plan in place right?
Yeah, but don't you take care of this market first? You don't need Europe. You need the West Coast....maybe.
Are you missing the point that HMS, Action Express, and RCR already have a strong working relationship in this arena? It makes sense that Jim France would go to HMS/RCR for this.
Then why must it be so secret? I mean come on man. It's weird.
For such a fanboy of the mega-corp of Toyota, who basically wrote the book on successful capitalism, I'm surprised you don't understand the desire for companies to always continue a path of growth instead of being stagnant and myopic.
Stuff the snark man. NASCAR already got too bit for its britches once...and if NASCAR thinks they have something the the global community which is already saturated with F1, WEC, and WRC, they are dead wrong.
In Japan NASCAR ran a full field of 'conventional' stock cars; pretty much a regular oval race, just on a new track.

Le Mans will be one car, expected to be uncompetitive, that isn't representative of what's fielded by NASCAR every week.

The NFL sends teams to London to play American football, not cricket.
This.
“Every time that (car) is on the road, that’s shared with us. And we will have that visibility and that transparency because that’s what we’ve been promised. And we will be a party to participate in every test. We will be invited to every test.”
Yeah, after bitching about it.
 

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In Japan NASCAR ran a full field of 'conventional' stock cars; pretty much a regular oval race, just on a new track.

Le Mans will be one car, expected to be uncompetitive, that isn't representative of what's fielded by NASCAR every week.

The NFL sends teams to London to play American football, not cricket.
Yep, Nascar already has racing series in Europe, Canada and Mexico. My guess is with France, Hendrick and with Chevy participation they are using LeMans for a test bed for a Hendrick IROC effort. Penske is taking Super car drivers and turning them into IndyCar drivers, Hendrick shouldn't have any problem finding drivers for an IROC effort. Food for thought anyway where they go after LeMans.
 

Charlie Spencer

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I think it was FL or one of those guys that follow IMSA pretty closely that said Hendrick may be racing a Camaro in IMSA. France Owns IMSA, Hendrick races Camaros, it doesn't seem that far fetched to me to see a Hendrick Camaro in IMSA. So they all get to kill two birds with one stone going to LeMans for a good test if it goes that way.
That makes lots of sense but that seems to make the 'HMS IMSA development' turkey much larger than the 'NASCAR publicity' hummingbird.

Maybe this is Jeff's idea?
 

Charlie Spencer

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Yeah, but don't you take care of this market first? You don't need Europe. You need the West Coast....maybe.
Pretty sure NASCAR is capable of tackling multiple tasks at one (again, assuming one goal of this is to increase visibility outside North America). This is a business; it isn't Congress.
 

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Yep, Nascar already has racing series in Europe, Canada and Mexico. My guess is with France, Hendrick and with Chevy participation they are using LeMans for a test bed for a Hendrick IROC effort. Penske is taking Super car drivers and turning them into IndyCar drivers, Hendrick shouldn't have any problem finding drivers for an IROC effort. Food for thought anyway where they go after LeMans.
IROC? Really? Maybe NASCAR should just come out and say what the objective is....what a concept.
 

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I swear, your unwavering loyalty is blinding how great this moment is for this sport.

You got it though, same for everyone else. All this nut-hugging is something else man, I tell ya.
NASCAR's love affair with Rick Hendrick does not equal "this sport" anymore. Times have changed. We gather in a wind tunnel to make sure that our aero is the same. We see the dyne sheets to make sure that nobody is too far out of line. Then, we consider this "great moment" with one "partner," and don't say anything to anyone else. You see a problem here? I do. It's bull****.
 

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NASCAR's love affair with Rick Hendrick does not equal "this sport" anymore. Times have changed. We gather in a wind tunnel to make sure that our aero is the same. We see the dyne sheets to make sure that nobody is too far out of line. Then, we consider this "great moment" with one "partner," and don't say anything to anyone else. You see a problem here? I do. It's bull****.
Hendrick is involved with IMSA already and has the infastrucure necessary to move forward with it.

There is no love affair here, IMSA and NASCAR already has HMS and RCR involved with major support from GM. It's not hard to understand, TRD nor Ford are involved in IMSA currently. I'm talking IMSA as in DPi, LMP2/, or GT classes. Don't say Lexus because Vasser/Sullivan is not involved in NASCAR.
 

Revman

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I swear, your unwavering loyalty is blinding how great this moment is for this sport.

You got it though, same for everyone else. All this nut-hugging is something else man, I tell ya.
NASCAR is looking for OEM's. David Wilson is recruiting them. How awkward do you think this will be for him to sell this transparent sanctioning body now? Internationally, NASCAR is already looked upon as a series with a bunch of cheaters IMO. How does this look? Don't bother with rants about my loyalty. Just answer or ignore.
 

Revman

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Don't say Lexus because Vasser/Sullivan is not involved in NASCAR.
BS. I will say Vasser/Sullivan because TRD manages those cars...so, yeah, they are involved in IMSA....and I might argue that the GTD class is probably more relevant than the other classes. You are operating on the assumption that a NASCAR team would need to manage the Le Mans effort. That is true with the hands off nature of GM and Ford, but TRD is different....and that pisses many off....but I digress. TRD is more than capable of managing this effort, and that is why David is pissed. Hendrick and GM are not more equipped to do this than anybody else.
 

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NASCAR is looking for OEM's. David Wilson is recruiting them. How awkward do you think this will be for him to sell this transparent sanctioning body now? Internationally, NASCAR is already looked upon as a series with a bunch of cheaters IMO. How does this look? Don't bother with rants about my loyalty. Just answer or ignore.
Now you're just making up narratives man. If TRD was as heavily involved in IMSA as HMS is currently, then you could possibly have a case.

Are you serious? What team does Vasser/Sullivan own in NASCAR? Please get over yourself here. This "Toyota vs. The World" narrative tiring as hell.
 

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Now you're just making up narratives man. If TRD was as heavily involved in IMSA as HMS is currently, then you could possibly have a case.

Are you serious? What team does Vasser/Sullivan own in NASCAR? Please get over yourself here. This "Toyota vs. The World" narrative tiring as hell.
I don't know what you are talking about. You don't need a team to enter the car when you have TRD which is capable of managing everything. TRD's model is different than that of GM and Ford--although they are moving in the same direction. TRD completely developed the RCF, and then under IMSA rules had to step back...but with the advent of GTD Pro, they are back in the business heavily. How much deeper do you need them? ...and just how deep is GM besides writing checks? Bag the personal stuff man. This is a conversation about a sport....I disagree with you. We talk. Part of the RF experience. Don't get sucked into the other BS here that has turned many away.
 

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Now you're just making up narratives man. If TRD was as heavily involved in IMSA as HMS is currently, then you could possibly have a case.

Are you serious? What team does Vasser/Sullivan own in NASCAR? Please get over yourself here. This "Toyota vs. The World" narrative tiring as hell.
Bowman should make some Toyota monogramed crying towels to sell with his t-shirts. They are desperately needed that's for sure. :D
 

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I don't know what you are talking about. You don't need a team to enter the car when you have TRD which is capable of managing everything. TRD's model is different than that of GM and Ford--although they are moving in the same direction. TRD completely developed the RCF, and then under IMSA rules had to step back...but with the advent of GTD Pro, they are back in the business heavily. How much deeper do you need them? ...and just how deep is GM besides writing checks? Bag the personal stuff man. This is a conversation about a sport....I disagree with you. We talk. Part of the RF experience. Don't get sucked into the other BS here that has turned many away.
You're ignorning the question.

Guess who is already in NASCAR Cup? HMS and RCR, guess what Cup teams are heavily involed in IMSA? HMS with Action Express and RCR makes the engines for the DPi program. Yes, TRD is invovled with VSR, however they are not involved in Cup Racing. This is about showing what established Cup teams can do in this situation at LeMans. That's what I'm getting at, but you continue to skirt around the question.

JGR is not involved in IMSA, I'm sorry that bothers you so much. I'm irritated because everything is set for everyone to be involved, yet you're complaining about TRD not leading the project. Who cares who's leading or who got the call up?

Been past the point of this place at times, but I'm still here discussing away. I know you're not going to agree, but I'm saying your points are moot. You're basing your opinion off of emotion.
 
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