'Dega Cup Thread

from what i saw, kurt busch bump drafted jeff, and Matt came up where there wasn't any real estate. I think?
 
Guido said:
Bingo!

The cars are basically equal. If you lower the horsepower they are still going to be running in packs.

The track was built when cars were doing 180 mph and under. I could be wrong about that as I have not taken the time to research the speeds back then. Needless to say, it was less than what it is now. There were all levels of body shaping and horsepower and thus there was less number of cars in drafting packs.

I don't know what the answer is to the problem. The COT car only makes it worse because the cars are so equal. Other than putting 4 cylinder engines in them to reduce the speed, there isn't much that can be done.

Reducing the banking can help a little but the long straightaways will have them coming into the turns faster than they can handle them. So I believe reduced banking will just add to more wrecks in another part of the track.
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Actually, the first pole was won with a speed of over 196 MPH. That was in 1969. In 1970, the pole was won at 199 MPH and some drivers hit over 200 MPH. They started to limit the engine size for the second race in 1970, and have been doing so ever since. The pole speeds did climb to over 200 MPH, so they limited them again. Unlike Daytona, Talladega has had this problem from Day 1.
 
See but the disclaimer on the back of the ticket I wonder how legally binding that really is. I know NASCAR has the cash and will find a way to make it so, but I know like at the local tracks you check in and sign something that is suppose to be saying you will not sue if you get hurt or something to that effect. But I know of a case right now where the promoter is in a lawsuit and defending themselves even though the person signed that sheet. Ive heard alot of that is just for show.

Does anybody know how NASCAR handles their disclaimers?
 
In a court of law what it says on the back of the ticket is worthless. In this case a first year law student could win. In the past debris has flown into the stands injurying people. They have all been compensated by NA$CAR and it's insurance companies. It states a precedent, NA$CAR knows yet has done basically nothing to prevent it.
I haven't seen an update on the injuries, I truly hope all are ok. If that was a young woman who got cut on her face NA$CAR is going to be digging deep. Better to kill a old man then scar the face of a woman. Learned that lesson working almost 20 years in insurance claims.
 
basscatcher89 said:
See but the disclaimer on the back of the ticket I wonder how legally binding that really is. I know NASCAR has the cash and will find a way to make it so, but I know like at the local tracks you check in and sign something that is suppose to be saying you will not sue if you get hurt or something to that effect. But I know of a case right now where the promoter is in a lawsuit and defending themselves even though the person signed that sheet. Ive heard alot of that is just for show.

Does anybody know how NASCAR handles their disclaimers?
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NASCAR makes me sign my life away every time I go to pick up my pit passes at Old Dominion. :rolleyes:
 
Guido said:
If he had not come across the hood of Newman, the car would have probably settled back down again and at the worst, barrelrolled or flipped like on Saturdays race.

I don't believe that Carl would have been launched into the catch fence had he not going over the top of Newman.

Hard to predict what may happen in all types of conditions. But I do believe that the flaps and venting worked well overall and do so in most wrecks
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I'll agree here. Newman was the key factor. The flaps were slow to deploy but i think the buildup of under pressure didn't help him get air any. When air is under the car like that, the 2 10"x3" hood flaps are the only things it can come out of. Maybe there needs to be vents in the rear somehow?
 
SST55 said:
In a court of law what it says on the back of the ticket is worthless. In this case a first year law student could win. In the past debris has flown into the stands injurying people. They have all been compensated by NA$CAR and it's insurance companies. It states a precedent, NA$CAR knows yet has done basically nothing to prevent it.
I haven't seen an update on the injuries, I truly hope all are ok. If that was a young woman who got cut on her face NA$CAR is going to be digging deep. Better to kill a old man then scar the face of a woman. Learned that lesson working almost 20 years in insurance claims.
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Spot on. Nascar is insured for this type of thing. Parts fly into those fences which are not solid. It is easy for apart or piece of sheet metal to get into the stands. Fortunately fans rarely get injured.
 
BigdaddyQH said:
Spot on. Nascar is insured for this type of thing. Parts fly into Those fences are not solid. It is easy for apart or piece of sheet metal to get into the stands. Fortunately fans rarely get injured.
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There you have it SST55. Bigdaddy has spoken!
notworthy.gif
 
basscatcher89 said:
See but the disclaimer on the back of the ticket I wonder how legally binding that really is. I know NASCAR has the cash and will find a way to make it so, but I know like at the local tracks you check in and sign something that is suppose to be saying you will not sue if you get hurt or something to that effect. But I know of a case right now where the promoter is in a lawsuit and defending themselves even though the person signed that sheet. Ive heard alot of that is just for show.

Does anybody know how NASCAR handles their disclaimers?
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Good question.

I have a friend that is a lawyer in Birmingham and a huge NASCAR fan and was at the track yesterday. In fact he said in the area whre the car hit the fence, just up higher.
Anyway I just e-mailed him this question so if he gets the chance to e-mail me back I will post it here.
 
Magnethead said:
I'll agree here. Newman was the key factor. The flaps were slow to deploy but i think the buildup of under pressure didn't help him get air any. When air is under the car like that, the 2 10"x3" hood flaps are the only things it can come out of. Maybe there needs to be vents in the rear somehow?
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or bigger roof flaps???
 
Andy,
You ever read the back of the Na$car license form? Na$car provides insurance, which the cost is included in your license fee, but it only pays when your insurance tops out. Now seeing most policies don't cover racing,sky diving etc it becomes a moot point. Your company hasn't paid out therefore your insurance hasn't paid a cent or "topped out" and NA$CAR is off the hook. BRILLANT!

Now, if your a fan in the stands. A wheel came off a streeter and flew thru the catch fence at Seekonk years ago. Guy caught it in his lap, 2 broken legs and internal injuries. Track placed the blame on the racer for the wheel coming off in the first place. Years and I mean many years later, after the guy had lost his job, house and family they finally settled.

Those "sign in sheets" no matter what they say aren't binding if you are injured through no fault of your own.
 
after Kenny Brack flew into the turn 3 TMS fence, IRL started not selling the first 20 or 30 rows.
 
BigdaddyQH said:
They always place the blame on the drivers.
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It is the drivers' fault. They are the ones that are running into and over each other. But it's NASCAR's fault for creating the rules (plates) they have. Before the plates, races at Daytona and Talladega got strung out. NASCAR doesn't want that again. Like Edwards said, someone is going to get killed. Will NASCAR finally change their tune if and when that happens?
 
mike honcho said:
or bigger roof flaps???
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I'd have to see how they work in a wind tunnel, but i believe the roof flaps function such that they require a directional wind to make them lift up. Bigger flaps I think would take longer to deploy...right now there's only a driver side flap and a rear flap- there needs to be one on the passenger side too i think, to go with the air rails. But for sure, having the right side window did it's job.
 
Plate races

Plain and simple...plate races aren't racing! Racing at most tracks is a contest to see which team can out preform the other teams and come to the finish line first. Plate racing has nothing to do with the BEST team!
Although thrilling to watch at times, plate racing is simply too dangerous for our beloved drivers and teams to participate in.. Not to mention the danger to the fans themselves sitting in the stands.
I have long thought "blocking" should be black flagged. At any race, but particularly at plate races.
Betsy :rolleyes:
 
Betsy said:
Plain and simple...plate races aren't racing! Racing at most tracks is a contest to see which team can out preform the other teams and come to the finish line first. Plate racing has nothing to do with the BEST team!
Although thrilling to watch at times, plate racing is simply too dangerous for our beloved drivers and teams to participate in.. Not to mention the danger to the fans themselves sitting in the stands.
I have long thought "blocking" should be black flagged. At any race, but particularly at plate races.
Betsy :rolleyes:
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I think Lappy and I will agree
 
SST55 said:
Andy,
You ever read the back of the Na$car license form? Na$car provides insurance, which the cost is included in your license fee, but it only pays when your insurance tops out. Now seeing most policies don't cover racing,sky diving etc it becomes a moot point. Your company hasn't paid out therefore your insurance hasn't paid a cent or "topped out" and NA$CAR is off the hook. BRILLANT!

Now, if your a fan in the stands. A wheel came off a streeter and flew thru the catch fence at Seekonk years ago. Guy caught it in his lap, 2 broken legs and internal injuries. Track placed the blame on the racer for the wheel coming off in the first place. Years and I mean many years later, after the guy had lost his job, house and family they finally settled.

Those "sign in sheets" no matter what they say aren't binding if you are injured through no fault of your own.
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NASCAR makes you sign legal documents before getting pit passes. You know, and assume risk, at your own cost.

Rockingham required proof of insurance. :eek:
 
Betsy said:
Plain and simple...plate races aren't racing! Racing at most tracks is a contest to see which team can out preform the other teams and come to the finish line first. Plate racing has nothing to do with the BEST team!
Although thrilling to watch at times, plate racing is simply too dangerous for our beloved drivers and teams to participate in.. Not to mention the danger to the fans themselves sitting in the stands.
I have long thought "blocking" should be black flagged. At any race, but particularly at plate races.
Betsy :rolleyes:
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Agreed.
 
So, if the pit pass includes insurance should you be injured why do you have to prove you have insurance? I'm playing devils advocate here.

Now, do you get a copy of what you've signed? I'm talking about the pit pass. We never did, signed your name, printed your name, license number and fork over the cash. We have at times sent "the kid" over with the cash to sign us in, he'd come back with passes for the whole team. Seekonk was a NA$CAR track then too.

I did get copies of my license apps.
 
SST55 said:
So, if the pit pass includes insurance should you be injured why do you have to prove you have insurance? I'm playing devils advocate here.

Now, do you get a copy of what you've signed? I'm talking about the pit pass. We never did, signed your name, printed your name, license number and fork over the cash. We have at times sent "the kid" over with the cash to sign us in, he'd come back with passes for the whole team. Seekonk was a NA$CAR track then too.

I did get copies of my license apps.
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I've got copies of the stuff from Rockingham and ODS.
 
BigdaddyQH said:
They are reacting because it looked so spectacular. Now someone suggested that they simply block the first 10 rows of seats at the track. Maybe that is a good solution. I do not know how far up the stands the debris off of Edwards car flew, but I am sure that the Talladega officials do. Unfortunately, while this may solve the safety issues for the fan, it does nothing to solve the safety issue for the driver, or the fact that restrictor plate racing is BORING and depends on the possibility of a major wreck to get anyone to watch it.
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As to safety issues for the drivers while there are wrecks and spectacular ones at that still the driver's are being protected a lot better than I am on my 6 mile drive home at 35 (if I'm lucky) mph.
As to boring, maybe you need to upgrade your TV. Mine has these little buttons that make the channel go up or down. Or, if its not that bad I can go online and chat while keeping half an eye on the telly. Lots of choices.
As to a major wreck, maybe for some. Especially noobs. I hope some of the people posting here are above that however.
 
VaDirt said:
As many people gripe about Nascar's knee-jerk reaction, I think there's a knee-jerk reaction going on here, and you're all pointing the the Edwards crash as the problem behind it all.

I hear many people saying to take off the plate, but face it, there were only 2 pairs of cars involved in that melee, not a whole pack. So using that crash as an excuse to get of the plates doesn't even follow suit.

Now think about what would have happened yesterday had there been no plate. Think of Edwards car going over 220 or so at that part of the race track, and the devestation that would have likely ensued.

If there's one thing that needs to be done, it's for the drivers to change their mindset, and stop trying to block someone making a pass. Bottom line, cut and dry, blocking is what caused that mess. In fact, that's what caused the fatefull day back in Daytona in 2001.
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I have to disagree. Had it not been for the plate, Edwards would not have needed a shove to get him up there and there's no way Keselowski would have been that close to Edwards (much less that close to the front of the field).
 
Eagle1 said:
Yes he is, but he, Jerry Nadeau and Jeff Pevris are all guys that had career ending, life changing accidents that all sure wish they had these COT'S and other saftey improvements that have been made the past few years. Chances are excellent they would still be racing and Tony Roper, Blaise Alexander could still be alive had they had the benefit of this added saftey features,
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Jeff Pevris career really ended when he was in the semi wreck going to 'Dega short track a couple years ago.
 
BobbyFord said:
I have to disagree. Had it not been for the plate, Edwards would not have needed a shove to get him up there and there's no way Keselowski would have been that close to Edwards (much less that close to the front of the field).
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I'm not talking about how he got there, or who was there with him. End result, what happened when Edwards blocked, was that he got turned sideways and got airborne. Countless times we've seen someone snooker the leader up high, and then try and beat him down low. Regardless of who was with him, this move has been done countless times, both before and after plates were implemented. Again, think of the consequences had two cars (regardless of who) were going 220+, and one of them got turned sideways and got airborne.
 
I see what you are saying but what I'm saying is that every wreck that happened yesterday was a direct result of plate racing, 43 cars glued together, bumper-to-bumper.

"The race tracks were built in the '50s and they were built to the aero configuration of the cars and the tires of the '50s and the cars today are way different. If they were building race tracks from scratch today, they would not be configured like this. I'm sure neither Daytona or Talladega would be configured as they are, but they're such pillars and such anchors to the sport and set such an expectation of the fans, I don't know if they can ever be changed.
-- Jack Roush, on the dangers of restrictor-plate racing
 
This is very typicial. Had that last accident with Edwards not have taken place everyone would be sitting here saying that was the best race of the year. Since it did occur and thankfully there was no life threatining injurys, everyone is saying Talladaga's gone to far we need to do something. The problem is there is no full proof plane where everyone is 100% safe. As fans we are customed to seeing big multi car crashs where 15 plus cars get wiped out. We also have grown accustomed to seeing cars flip over at Talledga and Daytona. And everyone calls the race exciting, now for the 1st time in 20 years the car got airborne and ended up in the fence and injured spectators and now everyones saying how Terrible Nascar and talledaga are. I find it hypocritical that we keep antagonizing them to race like that and then when someone gets hurt we blame Nascar or the track. As someone last night said people have died before and they will again, there is no 100% safe way of racing.
 
wilson89 said:
This is very typicial. Had that last accident with Edwards not have taken place everyone would be sitting here saying that was the best race of the year. Since it did occur and thankfully there was no life threatining injurys, everyone is saying Talladaga's gone to far we need to do something. The problem is there is no full proof plane where everyone is 100% safe. As fans we are customed to seeing big multi car crashs where 15 plus cars get wiped out. We also have grown accustomed to seeing cars flip over at Talledga and Daytona. And everyone calls the race exciting, now for the 1st time in 20 years the car got airborne and ended up in the fence and injured spectators and now everyones saying how Terrible Nascar and talledaga are. I find it hypocritical that we keep antagonizing them to race like that and then when someone gets hurt we blame Nascar or the track. As someone last night said people have died before and they will again, there is no 100% safe way of racing.
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Bingo. I was thinking about this on the way home from work today. And while taking the plates away isn't the way to go, we need to remember that high-speed auto racing is inherently dangerous. People are saying this should be a wake up call to Nascar, but I think it should be just as much a wake up call to the fans...this is NOT a 100% safe sport.

You want a 100% racing sport? Slot cars, with mesh between the 1/24 scale track and the spectators...and rubber cars...and safety goggles for the fans...

Speed and balls are what this sport was founded on.
 
To quote a legend......

"This ain't racin. They need to throw these damn plated in the scrap pile. If somone is scared or has feathers in their ass, they can stay at home.
 
NASCAR must be doing something right

ha, tricked you. :D

email said:
NASCAR Media Alert

Teleconference Opportunity Today

MONDAY, APRIL 27: NASCAR Teleconference – Follow-Up From Sunday’s NASCAR Sprint Cup Series race at Talladega Superspeedway

WHEN: 4:30 p.m. ET

WHO: Robin Pemberton, NASCAR Vice President of Competition and John Darby, NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Director. Moderated by Jim Hunter, NASCAR Vice President of Corporate Communications.

TELECONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT:
Available approximately 90 minutes following the teleconference.
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still waiting on said transcript...
 
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