Delaware Restarts:

D

Danny Ray Bennett

Jackman
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Aug 19, 2018
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I did not create this, I have only read about it and it seems like the right thing to do.
First off as you know most tracks have one groove that is better than the other groove, so the Leader picks what he feels is the best lane, giving the 2nd place car the bad lane, 3rd gets the good lane, 4th gets the bad lane and so on and so on.
Somebody suggested that drivers should have their lane choice.
It is my understanding that this is how it works, The drivers get lane preference by the way they are running, so :
Say the best lane is the top lane. The leader decides to restart there, now instead of forcing the 2nd running driver into the "slow" lane, he can choose either to start beside or behind the leader.
So now the 3rd place driver can choose, he can either start in the same groove of the leader behind the 2nd place driver, or beside the leader. Now the 4th place driver can choose.
Maybe the first 5 cars want the preferred lane, and 6th place gets to start beside the leader.
This is strategy. We see it happening now as drivers slow down, actually brake, coming out of the pits under a caution , because they would rather start in the fast lane rather than the slow lane.
This is my belief how the Delaware restart works, Anybody, is this a correct understanding ?
I was thinking this should work for cars on the lead lap.
 
Danny Ray Bennett said:
I did not create this, I have only read about it and it seems like the right thing to do.
First off as you know most tracks have one groove that is better than the other groove, so the Leader picks what he feels is the best lane, giving the 2nd place car the bad lane, 3rd gets the good lane, 4th gets the bad lane and so on and so on.
Somebody suggested that drivers should have their lane choice.
It is my understanding that this is how it works, The drivers get lane preference by the way they are running, so :
Say the best lane is the top lane. The leader decides to restart there, now instead of forcing the 2nd running driver into the "slow" lane, he can choose either to start beside or behind the leader.
So now the 3rd place driver can choose, he can either start in the same groove of the leader behind the 2nd place driver, or beside the leader. Now the 4th place driver can choose.
Maybe the first 5 cars want the preferred lane, and 6th place gets to start beside the leader.
This is strategy. We see it happening now as drivers slow down, actually brake, coming out of the pits under a caution , because they would rather start in the fast lane rather than the slow lane.
This is my belief how the Delaware restart works, Anybody, is this a correct understanding ?
I was thinking this should work for cars on the lead lap.
Click to expand...
Hard pass.
 
Danny Ray Bennett said:
I did not create this, I have only read about it and it seems like the right thing to do.
First off as you know most tracks have one groove that is better than the other groove, so the Leader picks what he feels is the best lane, giving the 2nd place car the bad lane, 3rd gets the good lane, 4th gets the bad lane and so on and so on.
Somebody suggested that drivers should have their lane choice.
It is my understanding that this is how it works, The drivers get lane preference by the way they are running, so :
Say the best lane is the top lane. The leader decides to restart there, now instead of forcing the 2nd running driver into the "slow" lane, he can choose either to start beside or behind the leader.
So now the 3rd place driver can choose, he can either start in the same groove of the leader behind the 2nd place driver, or beside the leader. Now the 4th place driver can choose.
Maybe the first 5 cars want the preferred lane, and 6th place gets to start beside the leader.
This is strategy. We see it happening now as drivers slow down, actually brake, coming out of the pits under a caution , because they would rather start in the fast lane rather than the slow lane.
This is my belief how the Delaware restart works, Anybody, is this a correct understanding ?
I was thinking this should work for cars on the lead lap.
Click to expand...
maybe we can just try this when the circuit has their annual races at Dover?
 
gnomesayin said:
This is not at all what Delaware style restarts are. Other people realize this as well, yes?
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I've seen this model of restarts at local tracks. I've heard it called yellow cone starts.

Regardless of what we call it, I'll play Devil's advocate.

As Danny pointed out, it eliminates the games getting off pit road. It might actually encourage pit crews to perform faster, knowing their driver will get to choose where he restarts. It reduces the effect of lane assignment on the better performing cars.

What are the objections? No one who's posted a comment opposed to it has said why. I'd like to see it tried in the Trucks for a season. Remember all the screaming when lap-down cars were moved to the back instead of the inside lane?
 
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Charlie Spencer said:
As Danny pointed out, it eliminates the games getting off pit road.

What are the objections?
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Why would we want to eliminate that?

In-lap / out-lap times and time spent in the box have been a primary element of every professional automobile race I’ve ever seen.

In this entire area, the system is not broken and accordingly, does not require any ham-fisted “fixing”.

Just my opinion, of course.
 
aunty dive said:
In-lap / out-lap times and time spent in the box have been a primary element of every professional automobile race I’ve ever seen.
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Agreed, but we're seeing guys slow down on pit road to let other cars pass so they won't get stuck in the slow lane. This negates the value of a fast pit stop, and it increases the potential for a pit road accident.
 
I prefer to argue on the merit of the policy, not just stand by the status quo. As a basic principle, lane choice makes sense with double file restarts. That's why NASCAR gives the leader the option today.

Let's take pit road out of it and use an example of a quick caution following another caution in which nobody pits. Should the 3rd place car be forced to start 'behind' the 4th place car in the slow lane just because them's the breaks?

All that is required, and already done in numerous professional racing series, is that the higher placed car in each row gets lane choice. It's not a free for all in which 20 cars can opt to start directly behind the leader rather than in the slow lane. That is unnecessary and would never happen anyway.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Agreed, but we're seeing guys slow down on pit road to let other cars pass so they won't get stuck in the slow lane. This negates the value of a fast pit stop, and it increases the potential for a pit road accident.
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Part of the game. Strategize and conduct yourself accordingly. A fast pit stop enhances your ability to make choices favorable to yourself.
 
Didn't they used to do this back in the day. I think it was called a single file restart. :D

Had to throw this guy in there too because it's the first time I saw it. No offense intended, just thought it was funny.
:moon:
 
LouieLouie said:
Didn't they used to do this back in the day. I think it was called a single file restart. :D
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Yes, apparently something needed fixing nine years ago, and needed adjusting a couple times since. But today it's set in stone for all eternity and should not be considered.

While I support the general concept of lane choice, I acknowledge that gamesmanship will always be present in serious games. If lane choice for more than just the leader were implemented, teams would choose lanes based on all kinds of criteria, including lining up behind teammates to push them, etc.
 
I think it is certainly something worth trying. I can't see ANY negative to it. As was pointed out, the double file restart is itself a relatively new thing, done to create more excitement. A Delaware restart would still leave a premium on being the leader, faster pitstops, and good strategy, while NOT unduly penalizing cars for no other reason than the end up in the "wrong" lane. I would think the strategy of teams deciding how far back in line would make it worth starting in the "wrong" lane would add another exciting element to the race, and would give a good car a chance to jump the leader on the start and take the lead instead of staying out on old tires and stacking up the field. I just can't see a downside to any of it. If you can think of one, I'd like to hear it.
 
This has been discussed here before. The concept is that you have lane choice, but if you are second third fourth and choose the preferred lane behind the leader and the fifth place car chooses the opposite you in turn give up your positioning on track for the preferred lane. It creates strategy, gambling so to speak. I have seen it done in the Lucas Oil Modified Series. I personally liked it as it was always interesting as a fan to see who was willing to take a risk and how it all played out. It worked sometimes and failed others. I am a firm believer that NASCAR needs to do something about the checking up at the exit of pit road. It already causes havoc and is as stupid as any "gimmick" that everyone seems to despise and it will eventually cause a serious issue on pit road. I don't see how anyone can look at that and say, "strategy" and then think about this restart option and not view it the same.

Not saying I am for it or against it at this point, but I would at least consider looking at it.
 
In dirt late model racing, the leader gets a row to himself and the second place car gets lane choice on the second row. Everyone else falls in line accordingly. If second picks the outside, then 4th, 6th, 8th, etc. would be on the outside as well.

I think if NASCAR wants to tweak anything on restarts, they could allow 3rd place to go behind the leader regardless of the lane the leader picks, 5th place behind 3rd, etc. That would end the monekying around some drivers do leaving the pits.
 
I'm completely in favour of implementing the choose rule as it would give teams more strategy options without losing any of the excitement of double file restarts. I don't really see what's so great about teams being screwed by lane assignment under yellow after working their way forward under green. At least with a choose cone each team has choice of the shorter or preferred line rather than odd or even positioned cars having the advantage.

Not a fan of delaware restarts in nascar though. Clean air is already king, and you want to start the leader clear of the field? You start the leader in their own row and they'll be 3 seconds ahead by the time 2nd and 3rd get clear of each other
 
Westy said:
I'm completely in favour of implementing the choose rule as it would give teams more strategy options without losing any of the excitement of double file restarts. I don't really see what's so great about teams being screwed by lane assignment under yellow after working their way forward under green. At least with a choose cone each team has choice of the shorter or preferred line rather than odd or even positioned cars having the advantage.

Not a fan of delaware restarts in nascar though. Clean air is already king, and you want to start the leader clear of the field? You start the leader in their own row and they'll be 3 seconds ahead by the time 2nd and 3rd get clear of each other
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It's ridiculous that guys lose 4 positions on a restart because tracks are so bad in the second lane. I love the idea that a driver or team can decide to take that risk and either they go from zero to hero or vice versa. I could just see the outrage though if a guy running 13th were to slide up to 6th based on this and find a way to steal the win.
 
Formerjackman said:
I don't see any reason to give the leader a row to himself, unless NOBODY wants to take a chance on the other lane.
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Maybe I'm misreading what's being suggested. My understanding of the "Delaware restart" is that the leader gets the front row alone and lane choice goes to the 2nd place car and is mostly used by dirt late models, which is different from the choose cone cone restart, which upon rereading the thread is what I think almost everyone is advocating
 
clarkfn2284 said:
It's ridiculous that guys lose 4 positions on a restart because tracks are so bad in the second lane. I love the idea that a driver or team can decide to take that risk and either they go from zero to hero or vice versa. I could just see the outrage though if a guy running 13th were to slide up to 6th based on this and find a way to steal the win.
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Lane choice starts at the front and goes back though. So if the 13th placed car slides up to 6th, it's because the seven cars ahead of them chose not to abandon the preferred lane for the position and can only blame themselves if they lose spots because of it
 
I don't see how letting the lead car in each row decide Lane would change a thing. You would still have the 4th , 6th, 8th etc. place car checking up to get to fifth , 7th, 9th etc.so he can choose his Lane. Or am I missing something?

Letting each car decide whether to line up behind the leader or take the unprefered Lane makes more sense to me but I think it would be a ton of confusion to figure that all out for 30+ cars before a restart.
 
Switchback said:
I don't see how letting the lead car in each row decide Lane would change a thing. You would still have the 4th , 6th, 8th etc. place car checking up to get to fifth , 7th, 9th etc.so he can choose his Lane. Or am I missing something?

Letting each car decide whether to line up behind the leader or take the unprefered Lane makes more sense to me but I think it would be a ton of confusion to figure that all out for 30+ cars before a restart.
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It's not the lead car in each row getting lane choice, it's every car getting lane choice. So you could get the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd placed cars choosing the inside lane, then the 4th place car being the first car to chose the outside and moving up to the outside of the front row, 5th place car choosing to line up 4th on the inside lane, maybe the 6th place car decides to move up to 2nd on the outside lane, ect.
 
Westy said:
Lane choice starts at the front and goes back though. So if the 13th placed car slides up to 6th, it's because the seven cars ahead of them chose not to abandon the preferred lane for the position and can only blame themselves if they lose spots because of it
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Not from the drivers, from fans. The ones who cannot handle any change in the sport whatsoever.
 
Westy said:
It's not the lead car in each row getting lane choice, it's every car getting lane choice. So you could get the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd placed cars choosing the inside lane, then the 4th place car being the first car to chose the outside and moving up to the outside of the front row, 5th place car choosing to line up 4th on the inside lane, maybe the 6th place car decides to move up to 2nd on the outside lane, ect.
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I was responding to the suggestion that the highest in each row gets Lane choice. I kind of like what you are talking about other than the amount of time it would take to sort that out before every restart
 
TexasRaceLady said:
What bothers me --- some complain about how long yellows last now.
How many laps will it take for 30+ cars to decide what lane they want and where to go?
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I would think it would take less time than to get cars in the lane they're supposed to be in now. When the flagman gives the signal to double up, cars move high or low as they cross the start/finish line and then get to the bumper of whoever is in front of them. You don't have to waste laps sorting out cars being in the wrong lane if they all have lane choice
 
TexasRaceLady said:
What bothers me --- some complain about how long yellows last now.
How many laps will it take for 30+ cars to decide what lane they want and where to go?
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Do it while the network is interview the last stage winner :D

They currently follow the pace car single file and don't go double wide until one to go. I don't see how this could take that much longer. If you don't move into the lane you want before the green drops, tough noogies.
 
I have seen this in play and am 100% behind it. It sucks when a driver loses 2 or more positions because they got stuck in the slow restart lane. I have seen where a couple restarts have cost a driver over 5 positions because of the lane. If they don't do this then anyone braking on pit road to give up a spot should be given a penalty.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
What bothers me --- some complain about how long yellows last now.
How many laps will it take for 30+ cars to decide what lane they want and where to go?
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It takes one caution lap. There is a cone that splits the lanes. Similar to a commitment cone. Put it on the back stretch and on the lap prior to green or two laps prior to green the drivers decide to either stay in the preferred lane or move to the other. It's done in multiple series. If the Lucas Oil Mods can do it on 1/3 mile tracks with 25 cars in their main, I have no doubt that 40 cup cars could pull it off on a 1/2 mile or larger.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
What bothers me --- some complain about how long yellows last now.
How many laps will it take for 30+ cars to decide what lane they want and where to go?
Click to expand...

Especially at the end of a fuel run. Imagine a 20 lap caution where everyone runs out of fuel trying to sort out lane choice. Landon Cassill wins and will RACE FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP!
 
Which is EXACTLY why I would like to see this method at least TRIED. They change everything else, why not experiment with this in a truck or Xfinity race, and if it works, try it for a couple of Cup races. If it sucks, well go back to the old way.
 
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