Determining a Champion

Team Penske

Team Owner
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
6,675
Points
643
There has been much said about how to win the championship. In the 90's, I never felt cheated if a driver won the points championship the week before. It just showed who did the best week in and week out. Then came the "chase" which eventually made the decision so ridiculous most of the season didn't count. I am referring of course to KB sitting home much of the season and then getting a gift as a qualifier because he was top 30. This year is another example of the same comedy when the most winningest driver has 1 bad day and can't compete. The season point champion after 26 races SHOULD have earned a bye to the final. I would like some replies that are very thoughtful and include a detailed summery of what you think the Chase should be and how the champion could be crowned.

My idea is very simple. During the regular season I would like to see the winner of each race receive a bonus of 50 points over what he accumulated during the race. This would include stage points and race finishing points. The second change I would make is to cancel the caution at the end of each stage. I am sure the race for stage points will cause enough cautions soon after.

Now for the Chase itself. Chase qualifying points can only be earned by finishing 5th or better in any race. Those points would be cumulative for the first 26 races of the season and only the 10 top teams in points are eligible. No fluke win and your in. At the start of the chase each team would have 50 points for each win plus 10 points for every stage win. This would be your starting points total. During the Chase a team can score points by winning a Stage ( 10 points) or winning a race ( 100 pts) Total points at season final race becomes champion. I am sure this could come down to a Bill Elliot/Davy Allison/Kulwicki finish for your game 7 moment and the championship would be legitimate as far as I am concerned because they earned it through out the season and during the chase.

What is your idea of "How To Crown A Season Champion??"

Please use another thread for your comedy efforts.
 

Blaze

Peace Keeper
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
22,658
Points
1,033
Location
Crawford County, GA
I want a full season 36 race points system.


But if they got to have the playoffs I’ll only disagree with something that you said. You mentioned whoever is the points leader after 26 races getting a bye to the finals. I disagree. Because after 26 races you could just coast, or try different things and not have to really “try.” My idea is keep up with the normal points still, even if you aren’t using it keep up with it. Whoever the points leader of that is after race 35, gets an automatic bye if need be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Charlie Spencer

Road courses and short tracks.
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
22,213
Points
883
Location
Lexington, SC
If we can't go back to a most-points-after-36-races system, I agree with @Blaze. Keep counting points using same method through the first 35 races, no bonus points awarded to the survivors at the beginning of each stage, driver with the most points after 35 automatically advances regardless of number of wins or when they happened. Keeping the points constant will also return competition for positions throughout the top 20 drivers, instead of locking them in to 16th through 13th, 12 through 9th, and 8th through 5th.
 

Snappy D

2017 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
9,205
Points
783
At the risk of the "Oh dear god, this thread again" brigade Here's what I would do......
1.) Most points after 36 races, tally it up and there's your champion. It's the most honest to goodness fairest way to crown a champion in my view. I am sorry for the younger fans who dont have attention spans for more than 20 minutes, but in all honesty you missed out on some awesome points battles in the 80's and 90's, like you knew who was running for a championship and who the title contenders were each race. When you had two of them left it was like a heavy weight title fight, two gladiators ( race teams) going at it over a full seasn. It was awesome... and here's whats lost on "well the playoffs are more exciting and its boring when the champion is crowned with 6 races left" crowd... to them I say the teams that lost should try harder and then secondly, EVERY RACE WAS A PLAYOFF RACE AND MEANT SOMETHING. Racing isnt meant to crown a champion like stick and ball sports, you dont see the Kansas City Chiefs playing the AFC West as well as the SF 49ers in the Super Bowl. Seriously in the spirit of the word playoffs, the playoff teams should run their own races each week while they eventually are elminated leaving the last two teams to battle it out while the other race teams run Saturday or something. I could stomach that way more that what we have now, Thats the true essence of a playoff stystem. The high stakes of each individual race....that is so lost now IMO....... so heres what I would do more emphasis on wins than finishing second lets say......50 points from 1st to 2nd? Then lets do 5 bonus points for winning pole, 5 points for fastest lap during a race, 5 points for leading a lap and 10 points for leading the most laps on an afternoon or race night. Goodbye stages, elimination races, brackets, all of it. Tally it up at the end of the year and there's your champ. So simple, yet so effective. It's probably the easiest to explain to new fans and it appeases traditional fans that have left ( and before you say who cares about those fans, well..... they were a big part of when you were on top and majorly successful. and also "they are dying off at a fast rate... well I am 35 and I still think this should be the way it is, theres probably more of my mindset than what you would imagine.)

2.) In the spirit of the just completed election and wanting to come together, I am willing to compromise since the full season system is most likely never ever coming back. I'll let @jaqua19 take it from here as I have already written too damn long and I dont want to steal his thunder, but a modified Chase For The Cup system which if he feels like it he can explain. Take it away if you desire ha ha.

Sorry for the long post but this bug has been up my ass since 2004 and I see many people on here and when I talk to race fans bitch about so many things wrong with the sport like the cars, aero, HP, start times, driver personalities and so forth..... I disagree with most of that as I think what we have now in terms of those things ( okay well maybe the aero sucks IMO) is pretty damn awesome. I love NASCAR in fact I am kind of depressed its going to go away as Rona cases are going up and once I predict we here in Illinois will be locked again I'll have nothing to watch but races from the 80's and 90s. I love racing, its just damn cool. But I will die on the hill of crowning a champion. IMO the way it is done now is a WWE Inspired Gimmick that lazily crowns a champion relying on a lottery while screwing with driver's legacies. I am trying not to speak here in defined tones as again its just my opinion and cant be proven, I am trying to stay in generalities as I am not trying to change anyone's thinking because many fans do enjoy the playoffs. But to me, damn NASCAR would be much more amazing if it did a 36 race points battle.
 
Last edited:

JGR_20

Rusty Wallace forever/Christopher Bell right now
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
1,384
Points
223
I think the playoff format is great for a racing video game or something of that level, but not the real deal nascar.

with that said, I do realize its not going away. They’re trying to basically find a way to make nascar racing ‘exciting’ to people who generally may not care in the first place.

If they feel the need to do elimination rounds, everything needs to be reshuffled to where the actual champion isn’t crowned on only the one last championship four race.

Shorten the playoff field to 12 drivers...

Eliminate 4 after the first 3 races(7 races now left...

Eliminate another 4 drivers after 3 races(leaving 4 races to go), which leaves 4 drivers with 4 races left...

allow the ‘championship 4’ to compete for four races, instead of just one.

I still prefer the season long points standings, but like I said... there’s no way in hell that comes back, because there’s absolutely nothing in it for the networks to hype up and be over dramatic about.
 

Revman

TRD
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
9,261
Points
883
I would crown the champion exactly as we do it. KFB earned both. He wasn't sitting at home. He had two busted legs. An incredible sports story that ALOU seem to bitch about annually. Pathetic. Kevin Harvick had a very easy path to the title. His team choked.....but instead we want to bitch about the format again because he had the best year. Yes, he did, but just like the Giants were nowhere near what the Patriots were when they were trying to go undefeated, the Pats didn't bring it, and they will forever be remembered a s good team, but not the best. Another example is the college football playoff system. Maybe that doesn't crown the best either. You know what, part of the fun of sport is to argue about this long after the champion has been crowned. You will never have the perfect system. This one is very, very good. Today is special because of the format. I for one, am gutted today because I had tickets to that race, but I am not comfortable with the COVID conditions right now. However, my tickets have been transferred to next year, and when this one is over, I will be counting down the seconds.
 

aunty dive

Team Owner
Contributor
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
23,632
Points
883
1604852230904.jpeg
 

LJ7201

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
544
Points
173
Location
Ohio
I take this current format over the 2003 and before one, but pre 2003 with more points for a win would be solid
 

wi_racefan

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
786
Points
203
I'd prefer a 36 race points champion

If that's not possible I'd like to go back to a 10 race highest points champion.

The final winner take all "game 7 moment" doesn't translate to auto racing. Having one race will always favor one team/driver. Not to mention there's too many outside circumstances that effect one race on it's own. I get it people say the same thing about sports, but if your QB goes down on the opening drive you have 2 more guys on the bench to throw in and try and win. Here we cant roll out a backup car on lap 50

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

Blaze

Peace Keeper
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
22,658
Points
1,033
Location
Crawford County, GA
I would crown the champion exactly as we do it. KFB earned both. He wasn't sitting at home. He had two busted legs. An incredible sports story that ALOU seem to bitch about annually. Pathetic. Kevin Harvick had a very easy path to the title. His team choked.....but instead we want to bitch about the format again because he had the best year. Yes, he did, but just like the Giants were nowhere near what the Patriots were when they were trying to go undefeated, the Pats didn't bring it, and they will forever be remembered a s good team, but not the best. Another example is the college football playoff system. Maybe that doesn't crown the best either. You know what, part of the fun of sport is to argue about this long after the champion has been crowned. You will never have the perfect system. This one is very, very good. Today is special because of the format. I for one, am gutted today because I had tickets to that race, but I am not comfortable with the COVID conditions right now. However, my tickets have been transferred to next year, and when this one is over, I will be counting down the seconds.

You know the difference between football and racing?

Football you don’t have everyone playing each other every single week.

Racing you have 36 chances to be the best, 36 chances to be the one on top. Football, baseball, basketball, etc need playoffs. NASCAR, and other forms of racing do not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Charlie Spencer

Road courses and short tracks.
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
22,213
Points
883
Location
Lexington, SC
Football you don’t have everyone playing each other every single week.
This. The Super Bowl champion plays three other teams twice, and at most 13 other teams once. There's half the league they never even see, and I don't expect them to. That's why S&B sports have to have playoffs. Racers face off against all their competitors every week; playoffs are unnecessary. (It's also why so-called All-Star races don't make any sense either.)
 

gnomesayin

Team Owner
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
7,728
Points
793
I don't really watch the NHRA, and there it almost makes sense as it's all one-on-one. Otherwise, I'm truly relieved that no other national racing series I do watch has succumbed to the ADHD-addled desire to go the playoffs route.
 

gnomesayin

Team Owner
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
7,728
Points
793
I think if they're going to persist in the completely unfounded belief that 'eliminations' somehow drive more interest in the races, they should start eliminating one driver / team every week after the fourth race. After the fourth race, 36th in points is gone. After the fifth, 35th is, and so on. Then you've got your four teams left after race 35 ready to race for the 'ship.

Unending implications and cutlines from March on!
 

Old Kid

Crew Chief
Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Messages
478
Points
63
Location
Central Ohio
I think if they're going to persist in the completely unfounded belief that 'eliminations' somehow drive more interest in the races, they should start eliminating one driver / team every week after the fourth race. After the fourth race, 36th in points is gone. After the fifth, 35th is, and so on. Then you've got your four teams left after race 35 ready to race for the 'ship.

Unending implications and cutlines from March on!
Sort of an Australian pursuit title chase? :laugh:
 

Charlie Spencer

Road courses and short tracks.
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
22,213
Points
883
Location
Lexington, SC
I think if they're going to persist in the completely unfounded belief that 'eliminations' somehow drive more interest in the races, they should start eliminating one driver / team every week after the fourth race. After the fourth race, 36th in points is gone. After the fifth, 35th is, and so on. Then you've got your four teams left after race 35 ready to race for the 'ship.

Unending implications and cutlines from March on!
Confirmed: gnomesayin is Jeff Burton.
 

OldTimer

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
604
Points
123
I live in my own world I guess...there are winners and losers. NASCAR is the loser...to make the claim that this last race crowned a champion is tantamount to a racing version of the Oscars. The winners are those that see it as such and do not care.

I crowned Harvick champion four races ago....do not give a crap what NASCAR says, they are just a useful toy to gather the boys and girls.
 

Ford 222

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
1,422
Points
243
allow the ‘championship 4’ to compete for four races, instead of just one.

Only change I'd make. if you don't get excited seeing a guy try to wreck another for a point, or the last 2 laps of the Xfinity race, you don't have much of a pulse.

A one race winner takes all sucks because something totally out their control can take them out. Cut tire or just a bonehead move by someone else and its over for one, 2 or even 3 of them. Hate to see a team lose it like that.

Chase and the 9 team came prepared and beat everyone else. Congrats to the 9 team and fans.
 

Zerkfitting

Team Owner
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
3,401
Points
443
Location
Minnesota
Before the playoffs the championship was basically over in September with two or three drivers with a realistic chance. I did not like the playoff when it first started, one bad race and a team was done. The current format is better and it does create more excitement. I like JRG_20's suggestion of reducing the number of playoff drivers and let the final four race multiple races to win the Cup. I think that when a driver falls out of the playoff they should lose the playoff bonus points and return to the normal points system and compete for their final standing with everyone else.
 

OldTimer

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
604
Points
123
I think that "playoff" teams should not get preferential treatment and should be targets of all the other teams on the track. Just like playing king of the hill.
 

harkin

SoCal Race Fan
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
2,366
Points
443
I crowned Harvick champion four races ago....do not give a crap what NASCAR says, they are just a useful toy to gather the boys and girls.

The way they handicap the non-finalists there are probably viewers out there thinking Harvick didn’t belong in the Final Four because he couldn’t even compete yesterday.
 

dpkimmel2001

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
34,700
Points
1,033
Location
Western PA
I want a full season 36 race points system.


But if they got to have the playoffs I’ll only disagree with something that you said. You mentioned whoever is the points leader after 26 races getting a bye to the finals. I disagree. Because after 26 races you could just coast, or try different things and not have to really “try.” My idea is keep up with the normal points still, even if you aren’t using it keep up with it. Whoever the points leader of that is after race 35, gets an automatic bye if need be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I didn't have to read anything more than your first sentence. It sums up my thoughts exactly. My fandom took a steep dive when they restructured the championship format.
 

Team Penske

Team Owner
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
6,675
Points
643
Only change I'd make. if you don't get excited seeing a guy try to wreck another for a point, or the last 2 laps of the Xfinity race, you don't have much of a pulse.

A one race winner takes all sucks because something totally out their control can take them out. Cut tire or just a bonehead move by someone else and its over for one, 2 or even 3 of them. Hate to see a team lose it like that.

Chase and the 9 team came prepared and beat everyone else. Congrats to the 9 team and fans.
I think Brad's pit crew partied their Xfinity Championship and failed to be ready for the one that counts. Bad idea letting them pit the Xfinity race the day before the big one.

Congrats to the #9 Team.
 

Speedbowl14

Ryan Preece and short tracks
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
1,528
Points
443
Location
Connecticut
I, like many, want a full 36-race points-paying championship to come back. But the past 15 years of debating, changing, and arguing over what's "legitimate" has made me look at short track roots...

What if we ran 36 races. And each week someone would win the race. And there were no points. When I'm at my local short track the season-long points standings are in the back of my mind. I want to see a good RACE that night.

Just Speedbowl14's never-ending food-for-thought and playing of Devil's Advocate....
 
Top Bottom