Determining a Champion

Team Penske

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It doesn't matter what point system you use, if you pay enough points this will go on all season long.
 

AuzGrams

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FULL SEASON LONG POINTS

RACE POINTS: 40-1 1st through 40th, 1 point for leading the most laps, 1 point for leading a lap, 1 point for leading at halfway. 7 points for a race win.

MAXIMUM POINTS: 50

HALFWAY BONUS: 1 point to the leader at halfway, caution to be thrown at NASCARs rule (like a competiton yellow) similar to the stages to be used as stage break & a replacement to fake debris cautions.

DOUBLE POINTS/MAJORS RACES: Daytona 500, Coca-Cola 600, Brickyard 400, Southern 500, Bristol Night Race. All 5 races will be double points and considered major races. The driver with the most points during these 5 races will win a million dollar bonus.
 

RacerrecaR

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FULL SEASON LONG POINTS

RACE POINTS: 40-1 1st through 40th, 1 point for leading the most laps, 1 point for leading a lap, 1 point for leading at halfway. 7 points for a race win.

MAXIMUM POINTS: 50

HALFWAY BONUS: 1 point to the leader at halfway, caution to be thrown at NASCARs rule (like a competiton yellow) similar to the stages to be used as stage break & a replacement to fake debris cautions.

DOUBLE POINTS/MAJORS RACES: Daytona 500, Coca-Cola 600, Brickyard 400, Southern 500, Bristol Night Race. All 5 races will be double points and considered major races. The driver with the most points during these 5 races will win a million dollar bonus.
I like it aside from 1 point for leading a lap and the halfway break.
 

AuzGrams

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I like it aside from 1 point for leading a lap and the halfway break.

Better than the fake phantom debris cautions. I really don’t mind the stage yellows at tracks 1.5 and under. I’ll be honest, some races get strung out and often times a yellow saves it.
 

RacerrecaR

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Better than the fake phantom debris cautions. I really don’t mind the stage yellows at tracks 1.5 and under. I’ll be honest, some races get strung out and often times a yellow saves it.
I'll never agree to predetermined cautions and I hate natural cautions just as much. Races getting strung out is a good thing because that is when strategy becomes paramount, which is something that has been severely lacking in this sport for many years
 

AuzGrams

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I'll never agree to predetermined cautions and I hate natural cautions just as much. Races getting strung out is a good thing because that is when strategy becomes paramount, which is something that has been severely lacking in this sport for many years

Yeah I agree with you, but then you got a portion of the fan base that wants a yellow because a lot of these guys especially in Cup, don’t wreck.

Maybe do a halfway bonus for 1 point, 2 points for leading the most laps, 7 points for winning the race to give a max points in a race at 50. Sorta agree that leading a lap bonus was kinda dumb.

I personally thought switching from the Latford system to a more simple 43-1 back in 2011 was a good move. I think keeping the points structure simple and easy to follow is cool and better for the fans. The stage points system makes things WAY to convoluted.
 

RacerrecaR

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Yeah I agree with you, but then you got a portion of the fan base that wants a yellow because a lot of these guys especially in Cup, don’t wreck.

Maybe do a halfway bonus for 1 point, 2 points for leading the most laps, 7 points for winning the race to give a max points in a race at 50. Sorta agree that leading a lap bonus was kinda dumb.
I like that A LOT especially if double points are awarded for select races.
 

Team Penske

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The stage points system makes things WAY to convoluted.
Not for people who took math in school. I can add previous points total plus stage 1 points plus stage 2 points plus race points. I may need a pencil and paper but it can be done without a calendar or calculator. :sarcasm:
 

StandOnIt

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Not for people who took math in school. I can add previous points total plus stage 1 points plus stage 2 points plus race points. I may need a pencil and paper but it can be done without a calendar or calculator. :sarcasm:
couldn't find your abacus or slide rule?
 

OldTimer

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FULL SEASON LONG POINTS

RACE POINTS: 40-1 1st through 40th, 1 point for leading the most laps, 1 point for leading a lap, 1 point for leading at halfway. 7 points for a race win.

MAXIMUM POINTS: 50

HALFWAY BONUS: 1 point to the leader at halfway, caution to be thrown at NASCARs rule (like a competiton yellow) similar to the stages to be used as stage break & a replacement to fake debris cautions.

DOUBLE POINTS/MAJORS RACES: Daytona 500, Coca-Cola 600, Brickyard 400, Southern 500, Bristol Night Race. All 5 races will be double points and considered major races. The driver with the most points during these 5 races will win a million dollar bonus.
I would go along with this...but get rid of the halfway caution. Also would only go with a 5 point bonus for winning....with second getting 4, third 3, fourth 2, and then fifth an extra 1 point....on top of your race 40-1 points. No extra for leading half way.

Keep in mind, if they would go to this type of format some teams would find ways to stretch the time on track and there will be more cautions based on equipment failure.

Which in my mind is a good thing as it brings us back to what NASCAR started as, an endurance contest.
 

Charlie Spencer

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Not for people who took math in school. I can add previous points total plus stage 1 points plus stage 2 points plus race points. I may need a pencil and paper but it can be done without a calendar or calculator. :sarcasm:
I don't think the stage points are confusing. What's confusing to new / casual viewers are playoff points, and resetting the points and standings multiple times throughout the playoffs.
 

StandOnIt

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I don't think the stage points are confusing. What's confusing to new / casual viewers are playoff points, and resetting the points and standings multiple times throughout the playoffs.
Stage points are confusing for me, you need a pad and pencil to keep up with them during the race..and then they add playoff points on top of that. Nobody in the booth keeps up with them during the season. Nascar doesn't even post them on their web site. You have to go to Jayski and even then it's very hard to decipher who gained of lost any positions after the race is over..That mess all season long doesn't include the "playoffs", that's another whole different animal. Hey, it SUCKS, IT ALL SUCKS :laugh:
 

gnomesayin

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Except for the winner of the race, the stage points construct makes running in the top 5 / 10 more important during the first half of the race than at the end of the race.

Driver A is fast early but gets steadily worse throughout the race. He finishes second in Stage 1 (9 points), fifth in Stage 2 (6 points), and fades to a ho-hum 14th place finish (23 points). He has scored 38 points overall.

Driver B has an early flat tire and pits, landing him at the back. He is 23rd at the end of Stage 1 (0 points), but he's gaining fast. He is ninth by the end of Stage 2 (2 points). He finishes third (34 points). He scores 36 points overall.

Who had the better race?

It's a joke.
 

StandOnIt

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Except for the winner of the race, the stage points construct makes running in the top 5 / 10 more important during the first half of the race than at the end of the race.

Driver A is fast early but gets steadily worse throughout the race. He finishes second in Stage 1 (9 points), fifth in Stage 2 (6 points), and fades to a ho-hum 14th place finish (23 points). He has scored 38 points overall.

Driver B has an early flat tire and pits, landing him at the back. He is 23rd at the end of Stage 1 (0 points), but he's gaining fast. He is ninth by the end of Stage 2 (2 points). He finishes third (34 points). He scores 36 points overall.

Who had the better race?

It's a joke.
Yeah my post was already too long to get to that nonsense. Why would a driver who had already scored high in the first two stages want to risk a pass in the last stage instead of playing it safe? That is always an option, an option every stage for that matter. And I don't know how many times I looked at the standings after the race and a driver that came in 4th, 5th had more points than the winner. It's a points system that was designed by a committee.
 

Team Penske

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couldn't find your abacus or slide rule?
We didn't have time for those toys, just did the math in our head. Came in handy when I went for my accounting course. We were not allowed calculators back then and they cost over a weeks pay to buy one.
 

Team Penske

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I don't think the stage points are confusing. What's confusing to new / casual viewers are playoff points, and resetting the points and standings multiple times throughout the playoffs.
Don't need to know them until the chase begins. No reason to reset the points either. If you don't make the next round you just fall in line with your regular points.
 

jaqua19

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Keep stage points, but don't have stage breaks.

Go back to the original ish Chase.

12 drivers separated by 5 points based on the order in which they finish the regular season. 5 bonus points per win. Regular season champ gets 15 bonus points in addition to the win bonus points.

Bonus points for leading the most laps.

Correct Chase format. Regular season champ has an advantage. But not in insurmountable advantage that a 3-4 win chase run can't over come.

Tightens up the field, regular season champ has an advantage..but the opportunity for a 07 Johnson or 11 Stewart run exists.

This is THE format and no one can convince me a better format exists.

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AuzGrams

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Not for people who took math in school. I can add previous points total plus stage 1 points plus stage 2 points plus race points. I may need a pencil and paper but it can be done without a calendar or calculator. :sarcasm:

IDK, this is the same fan base that cheered for Bubba Wallace hitting the wall at Talladega?

And I’ve never thought much of a system where the race winner gets less points than somebody in 10th.
 

RacerrecaR

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Keep stage points, but don't have stage breaks.

Go back to the original ish Chase.

12 drivers separated by 5 points based on the order in which they finish the regular season. 5 bonus points per win. Regular season champ gets 15 bonus points in addition to the win bonus points.

Bonus points for leading the most laps.

Correct Chase format. Regular season champ has an advantage. But not in insurmountable advantage that a 3-4 win chase run can't over come.

Tightens up the field, regular season champ has an advantage..but the opportunity for a 07 Johnson or 11 Stewart run exists.

This is THE format and no one can convince me a better format exists.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
I don't hate that idea because it is better than any format in the Chase era, but a better one does exist and it is known as no Chase
 

gnomesayin

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Keep stage points, but don't have stage breaks.

The stage points are worse than the yellows. I've illustrated why.

If it were just one "stage" at the halfway point, this would screw up the points less.
 

Team Penske

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One thing is consistent in most every post, " Get rid of the current Chase format".
Most people have a point system they like but it seems they still want a "Season Long Champion". Nascar, are you listening?
 

wi_racefan

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One thing is consistent in most every post, " Get rid of the current Chase format".
Most people have a point system they like but it seems they still want a "Season Long Champion". Nascar, are you listening?
You have to remember that nascar doesn't care about fans like the ones on here. Typically no matter how much we complain we'll usually still watch the race. We're just die hard race fans and love watching it.

The people that they're tryin to get are the ones with the 6 second attention span that can't understand why the guy that won the last race of the season isn't the champion.

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Snappy D

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One thing is consistent in most every post, " Get rid of the current Chase format".
Most people have a point system they like but it seems they still want a "Season Long Champion". Nascar, are you listening?
I’m gonna go on a hunch and say the higher ups arnt on R-FS.com . And they don’t care about long time traditional fans, if they did the original abomination of crowing a champion would have never been instituted in 04. But here we are, I just personally have accepted it for what it is and just try to enjoy the racing aspect of NASCAR. The funny thing is I have zero idea how stage points work and how they relate to playoff points. I don’t have the slightest clue how you accumulate playoff points....is accumulation gained through wins or race finishes? Are stage points tallied in with playoff points? I couldn’t imagine explaining this to a new fan, most older fans I know have tuned out because they are just legit confused by the whole deal. But you know those minimal attention spanned fans are worth it, keep trying to get those people.
 

AuzGrams

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I think I’d like the finale more if it was an 8 > 4 > 2 format.
 

donthaveanickname

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FULL SEASON LONG POINTS

RACE POINTS: 40-1 1st through 40th, 1 point for leading the most laps, 1 point for leading a lap, 1 point for leading at halfway. 7 points for a race win.

MAXIMUM POINTS: 50

HALFWAY BONUS: 1 point to the leader at halfway, caution to be thrown at NASCARs rule (like a competiton yellow) similar to the stages to be used as stage break & a replacement to fake debris cautions.

DOUBLE POINTS/MAJORS RACES: Daytona 500, Coca-Cola 600, Brickyard 400, Southern 500, Bristol Night Race. All 5 races will be double points and considered major races. The driver with the most points during these 5 races will win a million dollar bonus.
I would also like to see a return to a season-long points system. I don't really have a problem with the stages but I'd cancel the stage cautions at Road courses.
I'd change the points system to 60 points for the win, but keep the stage points as they are. I also like the idea of awarding points for laps led again.
I'd also make the crown jewels double-points races but I wouldn't consider the Brickyard as a crown jewel. There could be a 10 million dollar bonus if a driver wins all 4 races in the same season.
The funny thing is I have zero idea how stage points work and how they relate to playoff points. I don’t have the slightest clue how you accumulate playoff points....is accumulation gained through wins or race finishes? Are stage points tallied in with playoff points? I couldn’t imagine explaining this to a new fan, most older fans I know have tuned out because they are just legit confused by the whole deal. But you know those minimal attention spanned fans are worth it, keep trying to get those people.
There are 5 ppts for a race win, 1 for a stage win and additional points are awarded to the regular season Top 10.
 

jaqua19

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One thing is consistent in most every post, " Get rid of the current Chase format".
Most people have a point system they like but it seems they still want a "Season Long Champion". Nascar, are you listening?
I don't think some of you realize that this is the minority.

I also think most of the old format fans are older fans. At this point, I would bet more fans would prefer no 36 race format.

There is no universal rule to crowning a champion.

I've been a fan since the mid 90s. I would HATE a 36 race format again. I think it's boring. It makes the season predictable. I like my proposed system.

We are never getting the old system back. Fans dont want it. Only a minority of fans do. Patronizing fans who don't want a 36 race system is exactly why those stubborn fans SHOULD be left behind. That's the equivalent of old man yelling at clouds.

That's said, the elimination playoffs don't work, I don't like it. The 10 race shootout Chase is infinitely better than the season long format in my opinion. More people under 30 will agree than disagree.

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Team Penske

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I’m gonna go on a hunch and say the higher ups arnt on R-FS.com . And they don’t care about long time traditional fans, if they did the original abomination of crowing a champion would have never been instituted in 04. But here we are, I just personally have accepted it for what it is and just try to enjoy the racing aspect of NASCAR. The funny thing is I have zero idea how stage points work and how they relate to playoff points. I don’t have the slightest clue how you accumulate playoff points....is accumulation gained through wins or race finishes? Are stage points tallied in with playoff points? I couldn’t imagine explaining this to a new fan, most older fans I know have tuned out because they are just legit confused by the whole deal. But you know those minimal attention spanned fans are worth it, keep trying to get those people.
It is quite simple, Points per race include Stage 1 Points + Stage 2 points + race finishing points for a grand total.
Winner of each stage + winner of each race get playoff points and mean nothing until race #27 the start of the chase. Even then they only count for those who made the Chase.
 

Team Penske

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That's said, the elimination playoffs don't work, I don't like it. The 10 race shootout Chase is infinitely better than the season long format in my opinion. More people under 30 will agree than disagree.
You do realize this is the same as a season long champion except your stopping the count at race #26 and letting the top 10 ? drivers race for total points in the final 10 races. BTW, I agree this is much better than what they have now, anything is better than the current system.
I wouldn't mind even if they raced 5 races and picks the top 5 for the next 5 races.
 

jaqua19

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You do realize this is the same as a season long champion except your stopping the count at race #26 and letting the top 10 ? drivers race for total points in the final 10 races. BTW, I agree this is much better than what they have now, anything is better than the current system.
I wouldn't mind even if they raced 5 races and picks the top 5 for the next 5 races.
Yes. But it still has some "post season" energy to it.

And you don't know who the champ is by race 20.

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gnomesayin

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Yes. But it still has some "post season" energy to it.

There is no metric, whether it be television audiences, attendance, or otherwise, to illustrate that the final 2.5 months of the season has experienced higher levels of interest due to a "post-season" structure. It's all individual, anecdotal, and based on an assumption that NASCAR should resemble other "sports", rather than other racing series.

The way the millions of fans who watch NASCAR on television or at the track interact with its calendar remains roughly the same as it was 20 and 30 years ago. The first race of the season is the biggest and most watched event. Races from March - May have the highest viewership of the season. Casual interest then gradually wanes through subsequent months. The superspeedways and iconic tracks tend to attract larger viewership, whether they are in "the playoffs" or not. Fall races are the least watched overall. This will not change no matter what the championship format is.

The post-season energy is a sense of dread.

That said, if we're talking lesser of two evils, the 10-week Chase is much more legitimate than the multiple eliminations with winner-take-all finale.
 

donthaveanickname

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I don't think some of you realize that this is the minority.
How do we know whether this is the majority or the minority?
That's said, the elimination playoffs don't work, I don't like it. The 10 race shootout Chase is infinitely better than the season long format in my opinion. More people under 30 will agree than disagree.
Most people under 30 don't care about NASCAR, I think that's for sure. The current system and the one that existed since 2004-13 did not attract young fans and only led to a steady decline in attendance and viewership.
And you don't know who the champ is by race 20.
I'd bet that the championship would come down to the final race in most years. The drivers would also race differently than they do today and try to get the most points out of every race.
 
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