Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

StandOnIt said:
Writer Brock Beard's piece.
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He has a problem with the way the sport is produced on TV, the championship format, the way races are officiated....and he thinks that a full season championship will fix all of that? ....and he speaks for many who should be speaking for themselves......I see each race for what it is....that is why I have watched Denny's Vegas win a million times....it didn't result in championship, so why would I using Beard's logic. Maybe fans need to think for themselves.
 
The Brickyard 400 is a crown jewel for the Indianapolis 500 and the IRL.

I think Nascar in general is better than the IRL at ovals, but the Brickyard is still a 2nd tier compared to the 500. The 500 is so much better.

The financial incentives must be great for Nascar to be comfortable with doing a 2nd rate show.
It is a short-sighted credibility liabilty for Nascar imo. Cash in on the glitter today but pay for the lack of substance over the long haul.

A liabilty packaged as a jewel.
 
Greg said:
The Brickyard 400 is a crown jewel for the Indianapolis 500 and the IRL.

I think Nascar in general is better than the IRL at ovals, but the Brickyard is still a 2nd tier compared to the 500. The 500 is so much better.

The financial incentives must be great for Nascar to be comfortable with doing a 2nd rate show.
It is a short-sighted credibility liabilty for Nascar imo. Cash in on the glitter today but pay for the lack of substance over the long haul.

A liabilty packaged as a jewel.
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That race was a sellout every single year until Tireghazi. And even then, they get more fans than most races. NASCAR, in general, has fallen off that hard in the past 15 years.

It's a crown jewel because of what it means to the racers to win.

They need to take the O'Reilly Series back to Raceway Park though.
 
HoneyBadger said:
That race was a sellout every single year until Tireghazi. And even then, they get more fans than most races. NASCAR, in general, has fallen off that hard in the past 15 years.

It's a crown jewel because of what it means to the racers to win.

They need to take the O'Reilly Series back to Raceway Park though.
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I agree about about the return to IRP, while agreeing to disagree on the brickyard.
 
HoneyBadger said:
The Brickyard 400 as a crown jewel is not debatable.
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The Brickyard 400 is only prestigious because it takes place at Indianapolis, not because of anything related to stock car racing. It’s 100% trading on IndyCar history. It’s prestigious because of kids like Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, and Kyle Larson who grew up in open wheel. The Brickyard 400 is basically a substitute for the Indy 500 for them.

Right now, we have three Crown Jewels with deep history in NASCAR and they’re fairly evenly spaced out in the schedule.
 
If I was a driver, I'd definitely want to win there, more so than a lot of other tracks. It's a huge deal winning at Indy. No matter if it's the Indy 500 or The Brickyard 400.

The 400 let's remember, sparked a tradition that even those who win the 500 now do, kissing the Bricks. That shows just how important the 400 is IMO.
 
Blaze said:
If I was a driver, I'd definitely want to win there, more so than a lot of other tracks. It's a huge deal winning at Indy. No matter if it's the Indy 500 or The Brickyard 400.

The 400 let's remember, sparked a tradition that even those who win the 500 now do, kissing the Bricks. That shows just how important the 400 is IMO.
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It's so important that until recently they stopped running it!
 
Blaze said:
The 400 let's remember, sparked a tradition that even those who win the 500 now do, kissing the Bricks. That shows just how important the 400 is IMO.
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Todd Parrott kissed those bricks 20 years ago. Every other series has picked that up. NASCAR doesn't need to run there to just to maintain that tradition (assuming tradition is a valid reason to justify anything)
 
Daytripper said:
It's so important that until recently they stopped running it!
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No one ever claimed the people running the show is smart.
Charlie Spencer said:
Todd Parrott kissed those bricks 20 years ago. Every other series has picked that up. NASCAR doesn't need to run there to just to maintain that tradition (assuming tradition is a valid reason to justify anything)
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Maybe not, but it's still a crown jewel event. It's one of the races drivers really want to win more than others.
 
Indianapolis is the foremost tradition steeped facility in the US and one of the most famous in the entire world. The premier stock car series in this country should and needs to be racing on its oval. NASCAR has been racing there now for 31 years, its craved out its own niche at IMS, whether folks here or on the socials can accept that or not.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
its craved out its own niche at IMS, whether folks here or on the socials can accept that or not.
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No one is denying this. It’s just not a crown jewel for stock cars, no matter how much people in the sport try to force it.

The Indy 500, Daytona 500, and Grand Prix of Monaco are the three most prestigious races in the world. The prestige is tied to those races.
 
Naitch said:
No one is denying this. It’s just not a crown jewel for stock cars, no matter how much people in the sport try to force it.

The Indy 500, Daytona 500, and Grand Prix of Monaco are the three most prestigious races in the world. The prestige is tied to those races.
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It is though. The drivers and teams have said as much. I'll take their opinion on what they deem a crown jewel because they're actually competing in it.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
It is though. The drivers and teams have said as much. I'll take their opinion on what they deem a crown jewel because they're actually competing in it.
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Whenever I think about drivers and the media on Indy, I think about Bill Weber going on about Rick Mears when Jimmie Johnson won the Brickyard 400 for the first time. NASCAR’s history there pales in comparison to open wheel. A lot of drivers grew up fans of open wheel racing and winning at Indy does a mean a lot. But it’s not stock car history.

A lot of people in NASCAR have a fetish for open wheel, whether it’s IndyCar or sprint cars. You don’t see the reverse though. It’s almost like some people see open wheel history as more “legitimate.”
 
HoneyBadger said:
The Southern 500 is so important that NASCAR stopped running it for four years and ran it in name only for six years after that.
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NASCAR leadership went through a period where they saw the sport’s history and traditions as a liability, around the same time as that Bill Weber example I cited above.
 
Naitch said:
The Indy 500, Daytona 500, and Grand Prix of Monaco are the three most prestigious races in the world.
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And like the Brickyard 400, Monaco is a poor showcase for the series that runs it. It's a prime example of why tradition is a weak primary reason to continue doing something. Even the drivers question its significance.
 
Daytona 500 qualifying was relegated to FS2 for College Basketball this past season and we're questioning the prestige of Indy?

In all seriousness, NASCAR has fallen off so hard and the Daytona 500 is such a crapshoot that it doesn't even feel special anymore. Of course, I put A LOT of this on FOX for dramatically scaling back coverage when they launched FS1, and NASCAR for getting rid of the decades-old format and trying to cram it all in one week. But it's what the teams and the media want.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
And like the Brickyard 400, Monaco is a poor showcase for the series that runs it. It's a prime example of why tradition is a weak primary reason to continue doing something. Even the drivers question its significance.
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And the Daytona 500 is such a crapshoot that now has a long history of producing fluke winners - especially in the era of draft racing we have had since 2000.
 
HoneyBadger said:
Of course, I put A LOT of this on FOX for dramatically scaling back coverage when they launched FS1, and NASCAR for getting rid of the decades-old format and trying to cram it all in one week.
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There isn't enough fan support for the old two-week format. Rewatch the Duels fron the last few years and notice the grandstands that weren't even opened.
 
HoneyBadger said:
And the Daytona 500 is such a crapshoot that now has a long history of producing fluke winners - especially in the era of draft racing we have had since 2000.
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I'm the only one but I thought the tandem era was the best version of plate / pack racing we've seen since speed restrictions were introduced at Daytona and Talladega.
 
HoneyBadger said:
Daytona 500 qualifying was relegated to FS2 for College Basketball this past season and we're questioning the prestige of Indy?

In all seriousness, NASCAR has fallen off so hard and the Daytona 500 is such a crapshoot that it doesn't even feel special anymore. Of course, I put A LOT of this on FOX for dramatically scaling back coverage when they launched FS1, and NASCAR for getting rid of the decades-old format and trying to cram it all in one week. But it's what the teams and the media want.
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The Daytona 500 is still the most prestigious race in stock car racing.

NASCAR shooting itself in the foot repeatedly doesn’t change that. I want the old Speedweeks back. The run up to Daytona made it feel like the most important thing on the planet.

Give me back Preseason Thunder too.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
There isn't enough fan support for the old two-week format. Rewatch the Duels fron the last few years and notice the grandstands that weren't even opened.
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The new Speedweeks (Speed Days) format has nothing to do with fans. In fact, it's all been a detriment to the fan experience, and for Daytona, it's killed the hype and buildup. This was solely about saving the teams money on hotels and on tires and gas.

I think this new race week format has hurt every track. The three-day show was a big part of the weekend experience for fans and we've heard it for years now that it's not the same anymore.

But no race has suffered from this worse than Daytona. There's no buildup. There's no hype. There's no anticipation.

We don't have five hours of coverage on ESPN for two weeks, or nightly programming on SPEED following hours of on track action, or two weeks or programming on FOX and NBC. All we have now is what is literally just filler content for FS1.
 
Naitch said:
Whenever I think about drivers and the media on Indy, I think about Bill Weber going on about Rick Mears when Jimmie Johnson won the Brickyard 400 for the first time. NASCAR’s history there pales in comparison to open wheel. A lot of drivers grew up fans of open wheel racing and winning at Indy does a mean a lot. But it’s not stock car history.

A lot of people in NASCAR have a fetish for open wheel, whether it’s IndyCar or sprint cars. You don’t see the reverse though. It’s almost like some people see open wheel history as more “legitimate.”
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well it obviously pales in comparison there because NASCAR havent been racing there as long as Indy, which is fine I get that. But NASCAR has been racing there in some shape or form there for 31 years now, thats a long enough time to establish their own racing history and prestige at the place. Is it tied to Indy Car and other drivers that have raced there, sure I wont deny that. But its damn cool to see Jeff Gordon win 4 times at the same place Rick Mears won his 4, they're tied to history because of that single accomplishment. And someone asked if IndyCar could race at Daytona, would folks think its a crown jewel? You damn sure would think the drivers and teams competing in that race would have a little extra pep in their step for that one.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
And someone asked if IndyCar could race at Daytona, would folks think its a crown jewel? You damn sure would think the drivers and teams competing in that race would have a little extra pep in their step for that one.
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NASCAR drivers and fans make a big deal out of running the I500. Other than Helio's recent run, it's been decades since a full-time IndyCar driver attempted the D500. That says to me the oval isn't a layout they think highly of, although they do stand in line to run the Rolex.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
NASCAR drivers and fans make a big deal out of running the I500. Other than Helio's recent run, it's been decades since a full-time IndyCar driver attempted the D500. That says to me the oval isn't a layout they think highly of, although they do stand in line to run the Rolex.
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This is the best data point we have for how IndyCar views Daytona. Kyle Larson and Kurt Busch attempted the Indy 500 while active winning drivers. I don’t see Will Power or Josef Newgarden asking Roger to put them in a Cup Car or Alex Palou trying to line up a ride.

It feels like NASCAR being enamored with open wheel history and prestige is a one way street.
 
Naitch said:
This is the best data point we have for how IndyCar views Daytona. Kyle Larson and Kurt Busch attempted the Indy 500 while active winning drivers. I don’t see Will Power or Josef Newgarden asking Roger to put them in a Cup Car or Alex Palou trying to line up a ride.

It feels like NASCAR being enamored with open wheel history and prestige is a one way street.
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I don't think the talent pool is equal between the two or any of the Indy teams have the resources to do it either. It isn't a cheap undertaking. I bet Hendrick spent a bundle.
 
Naitch said:
This is the best data point we have for how IndyCar views Daytona. Kyle Larson and Kurt Busch attempted the Indy 500 while active winning drivers. I don’t see Will Power or Josef Newgarden asking Roger to put them in a Cup Car or Alex Palou trying to line up a ride.

It feels like NASCAR being enamored with open wheel history and prestige is a one way street.
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Last time I checked, Indy car's biggest star in the post split era left and went to NASCAR as did two reigning Indycar champion.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Last time I checked, Indy car's biggest star in the post split era left and went to NASCAR as did two reigning Indycar champion.
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I think there’s a delineation between a full time jump and doing a one-off. The money differential between IndyCar and NASCAR made a full time jump a financially wise decision for some. That’s a different can of worms.

We have full time NASCAR Cup guys who trip over themselves to run open wheel sprints and openly fantasize about the Indy 500 but you rarely (if ever) see top level Indy guys running the CARS tour and they rarely fantasize about running the Daytona 500.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
$$$$$

That says more about the paycheck than the supposed appeal of Daytona to drivers outside NASCAR.
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Talent level also. Corey Day flew cross country to Merced to race midgets and 360 sprints. He won the Sprint race probably banked half of the 10 thousand he won. Larson does the same. Very few Indycar drivers race anywhere else than Indycar. Anybodies guess why that is. Santinni is about the only one I know of that will race out of the Indycar series on a regular basis. Pretty sure he will be at the Chili Bowl, he raced there last year. There is going to be a pretty large group of Nascar drivers at the Chili Bowl this year. I don't understand why there aren't more open wheel Indycar drivers at the event.
 
StandOnIt said:
Talent level also.
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I dunno if it's talent or interest. Many of the top Indy drivers will run as third and fourth drivers in the IMSA endurance events. Maybe most of them view sprints only as stepping stones, or maybe they just don't like that form of racing.

Speaking of forms of racing, I suspect the D500 being a pack race probably does more to deter outside drivers from entering than any other single factor, including the layout, expense, or overall talent level.
 
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