FAQ on the New Points System

they need to rotate with a different points system every year. It will keep everybody on their toes. Go one more than stick n ball, start the playoffs after the third race of the season.
 
StandOnIt said:
they need to rotate with a different points system every year. It will keep everybody on their toes. Go one more than stick n ball, start the playoffs after the third race of the season.
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You're on to something. 36 chartered teams, 36 races, start eliminating a team per week after Week 3. The IMPLICATIONS juice the TV numbers like nothing else. I think it's reality shows that need to be emulated more than team sports.
 
gnomesayin said:
You're on to something. 36 chartered teams, 36 races, start eliminating a team per week after Week 3. The IMPLICATIONS juice the TV numbers like nothing else. I think it's reality shows that need to be emulated more than team sports.
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I like it, have a roped off area for the cars that are eliminated. Death race, second chance elimination races. kinda like a survivor spin off thing
 
Larsonfan1995 said:
The empty seats in the grandstands, declining TV ratings, and sponsors who are pulling out disagree with you.
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So your sure that's because of the Playoff system? I don't think so, its the best way to crown a champion and put more on an importance on winning, which is what racing is about.

ChexOrWrex said:
What year did you say you started watching again?
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I've watched my whole life man. Playoffs are the best thing NASCAR has ever done.
 
StandOnIt said:
I like it, have a roped off area for the cars that are eliminated. Death race, second chance elimination races. kinda like a survivor spin off thing
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what is a bit ironic, having the "cut off" and the stage wins and playoff points are very similar to Survivor immunity, and getting voted out.
 
Harvick finished last in the Coca-Cola 600, Kyle won the race and every stage. Did anything of consequence change? I was too busy sleeping.
 
gnomesayin said:
I agree that the Latford system and other similar flat points scales are quite flawed and do not distribute points in a sensible way that rewards top performance. I commented on this during the pre-Chase days, though I didn't post much on racing forums at the time. As you say, winning and finishing toward the front is under-rewarded, and safe mid-pack consistency is over-rewarded. I think abomination is a bit strong. There are occasions in which the wrong driver won the championship, but I can't think of any in which the champion driver wasn't clearly among the top two or three performers for the season. If comparing to the current system, it is still quite possible for a driver who isn't among the top five over the course of the entire season to get hot in the playoffs and win the Homestead finale. Less so now than from 2014-2016, but still feasible.
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It's ALWAYS ben my contention that while not perfect, there was nothing wrong with the Latford system that couldn't have been fixed with a few tweaks. Imagine a system where the winner received as much as 20% more points than second place, and there was a wider gap in points between 2-5, 6-10, and 11-43. That would put much more of a premium on winning and finishing up front while still rewarding consistency. Want to further reward running up front? Award points on a sliding scale to the top five lap leaders of each race, and if you INSIST, add stage points, just don't throw a caution to do it. An increase in the winner's points as I suggested would easily correct the two most often mentioned rubs against the Latford system, 1985 and 1996, and your champions would have been Elliott and Gordon instead of Waltrip and Labonte, not that I personally had an issue with the outcome of those two years either. As frustrating as it was for me to see a 10 win Gordon get beat by a 2 win Labonte, if the 24 team had just taken care of business in ONE more race, they would have been the champions. The 24 team had SIX finishes of 31st or worse, while the 5 team only had ONE finish worse than 26th. Pretty hard for an HONEST fan to make excuses for that. The Elliott fans don't really have a gripe either. After the Southern 500, the 9 team's performance was just plain lame by any standard.
 
ReturnTrip said:
Harvick finished last in the Coca-Cola 600, Kyle won the race and every stage. Did anything of consequence change? I was too busy sleeping.
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Kyle picked up 9 playoff points and Harvick picked up 0, so that might come in to play down the road. However I'd say there's probably about a 90% chance that both those guys make the championship four regardless of what happened Sunday night, so maybe it won't.
 
Simple Fan said:
So your sure that's because of the Playoff system? I don't think so, its the best way to crown a champion and put more on an importance on winning, which is what racing is about.



I've watched my whole life man. Playoffs are the best thing NASCAR has ever done.
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Then why has almost NOBODY embraced it? The playoffs offered basically ZERO increase in fan interest, in most cases, even less. I will still contend that any system where you can have 35 wins and one second place finish and lose the title is BADLY flawed. Auto racing has far too many variables that are out of the hands of the actual participants to crown a champion from such a small sample of work.
 
Formerjackman said:
Then why has almost NOBODY embraced it? The playoffs offered basically ZERO increase in fan interest, in most cases, even less. I will still contend that any system where you can have 35 wins and one second place finish and lose the title is BADLY flawed. Auto racing has far too many variables that are out of the hands of the actual participants to crown a champion from such a small sample of work.
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It's better now with the playoff points, but the first three years were ridiculous. When Ryan Newman makes it into the championship race with no wins and only four top-5's in a year when HMS racked up 13 wins and didn't have a single driver make it, there's a fundamental flaw in the system. I'm glad they fixed that in 2017.
 
Formerjackman said:
Then why has almost NOBODY embraced it? The playoffs offered basically ZERO increase in fan interest, in most cases, even less. I will still contend that any system where you can have 35 wins and one second place finish and lose the title is BADLY flawed. Auto racing has far too many variables that are out of the hands of the actual participants to crown a champion from such a small sample of work.
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Undefeated Patriots lost the Super Bowl. Won EVERY game but the last one. Its not THAT hard to understand.
 
Spotter22 said:
Undefeated Patriots lost the Super Bowl. Won EVERY game but the last one. Its not THAT hard to understand.
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Well football actually needs playoffs since all 32 teams don't play each other in a season.

Also in football you can't get into the playoffs because of just one win lol.
 
I dont compare the playoff system auto racing to stick n ball sports, two totally different entities. If NASCAR were a true playoffs, then you would have a saturday race with non playoff drivers and then a Sunday Race with just playoff drivers. The Patriots when they went undefeated for example, only lost to the Giants because that was the team they were playing not to the Giants and every other AFC East ( Pats division), which for me was easier to stomach. They had a bad day and lost on a lucky ass play.
 
2 Sweet said:
What does that have to do with anything? Racing and football are not the same.
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So many variables in auto racing that the driver has zero control over. Sure in sports you can lose on a bad day, injuries, unlucky play. But racing I dont know where to begin on what you can lose on.
 
I just got off the airplane and wow, it is 2004.
 
Do a 10 race elimination, hand out a big trophy, even the biggest check. It would be great entertainment.

But don't automatically call the winner of it the champion. That should go to the driver who performed best over the entire 36 races. If a driver wins both it would some rare extra prestige.
 
Blaze said:
Should we have only two drivers racing each other during a weekend at different tracks? You know so it's like other sports!!
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It doesnt matter if it 2 or 40. Its the end event that determines the winner. They can be undefeated OR have 4 losses etc....
 
Spotter22 said:
It doesnt matter if it 2 or 40. Its the end event that determines the winner. They can be undefeated OR have 4 losses etc....
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You want it like other sports so why not do that?

See in others, it's a bit unfair to crown the team when all teams don't face each other in a season.

With you having 16 games in football...It's not possible for a team to face the other 31 teams. Now keep in mind 3 teams you play twice. That's 6 games. So that leaves 10 other teams. So you face 13 teams total in a season. That leaves 18 teams you don't play. If you go 16-0 who's to say those other 18 teams wouldn't beat you? Thus you could still have had 18 times you lost. Being 16-18. So playoffs are needed here to take the winner of each division, then two wildcards from each conference being two teams who were good but didn't well win their division. Taking the best of the best.

With NASCAR you have a chance every single week to beat the person having the best season. Why should you be able to beat him once and win the championship when you personally failed 35 other times?
 
NASCAR has gotten truly lucky with their final four races that things have gone fairly smoothly, but some day we are going to have a driver who has been utterly dominate all season (like Truex last year) lose the title because of some stupid factor completely out of their control, like making a green flag pit stop and the caution comes out on the next lap, or he gets a tire that delaminates, or the mandated pit gun breaks, and they are going to lose and NASCAR is going to catch hell like there is no tomorrow. Over the course of an entire season, EVERYBODY has their turn at bad luck and has ample opportunity to overcome it. The playoffs condense that and leave no margin for factors outside the team's control and increases the chance of a competitor doing something that deliberately affects the outcome. (Think Kenseth-Logano or Hamlin-Elliott.) I'll also add that from the very start, there have simply been WAY too many drivers in the playoffs, whatever form they have taken. I am a huge believer in less is more, and I despise the fact that sports leagues are always trying to see how teams they can jamb into their playoffs, purely for the revenue and to satisfy whiney fans. In stick and ball sports, I FIRMLY believe that the playoffs should be limited to division winners and the ONE team with the next best record in each league. In any given season, it is a basic fact that no more than four drivers have even EARNED a chance to win a championship, and it's completely absurd to have 16, or even 12 or even 10. All it does is dilute the value of the accomplishment of being a playoff finalist. Auto racing is just not conducive to the same winner take all format that works for other sports, and I don't even understand why people WANT it to be. For years, one of the big marketing ploys of NASCAR was that WAS different from the stick and ball sports. You can say it's purely coincidental, but the truth still is that very little has gone well for NASCAR since it began trying to emulate other sports.
 
Blaze said:
You want it like other sports so why not do that?

See in others, it's a bit unfair to crown the team when all teams don't face each other in a season.

With you having 16 games in football...It's not possible for a team to face the other 31 teams. Now keep in mind 3 teams you play twice. That's 6 games. So that leaves 10 other teams. So you face 13 teams total in a season. That leaves 18 teams you don't play. If you go 16-0 who's to say those other 18 teams wouldn't beat you? Thus you could still have had 18 times you lost. Being 16-18. So playoffs are needed here to take the winner of each division, then two wildcards from each conference being two teams who were good but didn't well win their division. Taking the best of the best.

With NASCAR you have a chance every single week to beat the person having the best season. Why should you be able to beat him once and win the championship when you personally failed 35 other times?
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Every team has a chance to make the playoffs in both...No? Every team doesnt make the playoffs in both....no? The teams who do, play and eliminate each other...No? The last one standing is the Champion in both no matter what the season record.....No?
 
Formerjackman said:
NASCAR has gotten truly lucky with their final four races that things have gone fairly smoothly, but some day we are going to have a driver who has been utterly dominate all season (like Truex last year) lose the title because of some stupid factor completely out of their control, like making a green flag pit stop and the caution comes out on the next lap, or he gets a tire that delaminates, or the mandated pit gun breaks, and they are going to lose and NASCAR is going to catch hell like there is no tomorrow. Over the course of an entire season, EVERYBODY has their turn at bad luck and has ample opportunity to overcome it. The playoffs condense that and leave no margin for factors outside the team's control and increases the chance of a competitor doing something that deliberately affects the outcome. (Think Kenseth-Logano or Hamlin-Elliott.) I'll also add that from the very start, there have simply been WAY too many drivers in the playoffs, whatever form they have taken. I am a huge believer in less is more, and I despise the fact that sports leagues are always trying to see how teams they can jamb into their playoffs, purely for the revenue and to satisfy whiney fans. In stick and ball sports, I FIRMLY believe that the playoffs should be limited to division winners and the ONE team with the next best record in each league. In any given season, it is a basic fact that no more than four drivers have even EARNED a chance to win a championship, and it's completely absurd to have 16, or even 12 or even 10. All it does is dilute the value of the accomplishment of being a playoff finalist. Auto racing is just not conducive to the same winner take all format that works for other sports, and I don't even understand why people WANT it to be. For years, one of the big marketing ploys of NASCAR was that WAS different from the stick and ball sports. You can say it's purely coincidental, but the truth still is that very little has gone well for NASCAR since it began trying to emulate other sports.
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The dooms dayers were around long before the Chase. Things change and life goes on.
 
Spotter22 said:
Every team has a chance to make the playoffs in both...No? Every team doesnt make the playoffs in both....no? The teams who do, play and eliminate each other...No? The last one standing is the Champion in both no matter what the season record.....No?
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This is such a lost cause. You don't see the difference and for me to explain it would cause TRL to get on to me for what I'd say so I'm really just going to not go there. Peace out.
 
Greg said:
I just got off the airplane and wow, it is 2004.
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My fault for bringing this entire post back to light, I thought it was just fun reading about how people were upset in 2004 and 14 years later most are still upset about the same thing. Myself included but I didnt think it would bring up old arguments. Sorry everyone.
 
Blaze said:
Should we have only two drivers racing each other during a weekend at different tracks? You know so it's like other sports!!
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well if it were a true playoff, using playoff logic in other stick and ball sports..... Yes.
 
Formerjackman said:
NASCAR has gotten truly lucky with their final four races that things have gone fairly smoothly, but some day we are going to have a driver who has been utterly dominate all season (like Truex last year) lose the title because of some stupid factor completely out of their control, like making a green flag pit stop and the caution comes out on the next lap, or he gets a tire that delaminates, or the mandated pit gun breaks, and they are going to lose and NASCAR is going to catch hell like there is no tomorrow. Over the course of an entire season, EVERYBODY has their turn at bad luck and has ample opportunity to overcome it. The playoffs condense that and leave no margin for factors outside the team's control and increases the chance of a competitor doing something that deliberately affects the outcome. (Think Kenseth-Logano or Hamlin-Elliott.) I'll also add that from the very start, there have simply been WAY too many drivers in the playoffs, whatever form they have taken. I am a huge believer in less is more, and I despise the fact that sports leagues are always trying to see how teams they can jamb into their playoffs, purely for the revenue and to satisfy whiney fans. In stick and ball sports, I FIRMLY believe that the playoffs should be limited to division winners and the ONE team with the next best record in each league. In any given season, it is a basic fact that no more than four drivers have even EARNED a chance to win a championship, and it's completely absurd to have 16, or even 12 or even 10. All it does is dilute the value of the accomplishment of being a playoff finalist. Auto racing is just not conducive to the same winner take all format that works for other sports, and I don't even understand why people WANT it to be. For years, one of the big marketing ploys of NASCAR was that WAS different from the stick and ball sports. You can say it's purely coincidental, but the truth still is that very little has gone well for NASCAR since it began trying to emulate other sports.
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I agree with The Jackman's logic, I thought the old way rewarded the whole body of work, good or bad. What we have now while yes its a huge improvement over what we've had.... the Championship Race I never liked. I feel like one race is too random to crown a champion and one of these years I'm telling you we are going to have a champion that exposes this system for what it is. But no amount of whining from me on an internet forum is going to change the point system back to the Winston Cup days, this is what we have. Some like it, some hate it ( like myself), it's still racing and I am glad I get to tune in every week to watch. I would like to say though that I wish if it were changed they'd go back to Winston Cup points system with an emphasis on wins, bonus points for most laps led, bonus points for leading a lap and bonus points for a pole position. If I had to pick a playoff system....... I'd pick the original Chase with only 10 drivers getting in with the hard reset after Indianapolis.
 
One year we will have a driver that might miss up to a third of the season and still win the damn thing.
Sounds crazy, but it will happen, just watch.
 
Blaze said:
This is such a lost cause. You don't see the difference and for me to explain it would cause TRL to get on to me for what I'd say so I'm really just going to not go there. Peace out.
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No I get it you dont. Peace out
 
Snappy D said:
My fault for bringing this entire post back to light, I thought it was just fun reading about how people were upset in 2004 and 14 years later most are still upset about the same thing. Myself included but I didnt think it would bring up old arguments. Sorry everyone.
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If you have intellectual integrity, why WOUDN'T you still be upset? If you thought it was wrong then, what has changed that would make you think it is right NOW? If it had been a success and took NASCAR to even higher highs, then it would be fair to say that the naysayers were wrong, and even if they didn't like it, the masses DID, and that's all that matters, but we all know that is NOT what happened. To this very day, I have NEVER met a single NASCAR fan that was in favor of the Chase/Playoffs. Only on the internet have I found fans of it. I also don't understand why we should have to just shut up about things we don't like. I was always taught to believe that silence is consent. If you EVER have hope of changing the situation, how can you do it by just quietly accepting it? I'm STILL pissed at the designated hitter rule, one of the most idiotic rules in the history of sports.
 
Snappy D said:
well if it were a true playoff, using playoff logic in other stick and ball sports..... Yes.
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Yet it seems all the chase/playoff supporters probably wouldn't like this idea. Just think Kyle Busch vs Ricky Stenhouse at Atlanta for say, 100 laps or so. Then you got Chase Elliott vs Kasey Kahne at Dover! and so on and so on. Hell I guess we got to split them drivers into a conference and then a division also. So we can make better playoffs. Might have to do some changing around but seed it so that the Championship Race at Homestead is the best driver from each conference. Then it really is like other sports and other playoffs!
 
Blaze said:
Yet it seems all the chase/playoff supporters probably wouldn't like this idea. Just think Kyle Busch vs Ricky Stenhouse at Atlanta for say, 100 laps or so. Then you got Chase Elliott vs Kasey Kahne at Dover! and so on and so on. Hell I guess we got to split them drivers into a conference and then a division also. So we can make better playoffs. Might have to do some changing around but seed it so that the Championship Race at Homestead is the best driver from each conference. Then it really is like other sports and other playoffs!
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I'd take it a step further ha ha bracket that out so say 1 seed Kevin Harvick vs 16 seed 16 Chase Elliott at Kyle's Hometrack of Las Vegas, 2 seed Kevin Harvick vs 15 seed Alex Bowman at Phoenix and so on so forth, but have these races at the SAME TIME for a March Madness feel. I'm all in for a true playoffs if its going to be done like stick and ball sports.
 
Snappy D said:
I'd take it a step further ha ha bracket that out so say 1 seed Kevin Harvick vs 16 seed 16 Chase Elliott at Kyle's Hometrack of Las Vegas, 2 seed Kevin Harvick vs 15 seed Alex Bowman at Phoenix and so on so forth, but have these races at the SAME TIME for a March Madness feel. I'm all in for a true playoffs if its going to be done like stick and ball sports.
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Hey might as well have brackets online people can fill out online as well. See who pulls off the upset. Get NASCAR on the phone
 
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