FAQ on the New Points System

Greg said:
One year we will have a driver that might miss up to a third of the season and still win the damn thing.
Sounds crazy, but it will happen, just watch.
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ha ha shame on me... that already happened.
 
Blaze said:
Hey might as well have brackets online people can fill out online as well. See who pulls off the upset. Get NASCAR on the phone
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Im liking this. we think alike, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in the bank I'd say with our idea. Start building those stands back up, Blaze and I are saving NASCAR. Put these playoffs on PPV too.
 
When the Chase started I was totally against it. It overlooked a season of consistent finishes. One bad race during the Chase and you were out of it. They were trying to come up with some kind of playoff system for racing. Under the old system the championship was pretty much over by Labor Day and the two or three contenders were points racing. The current system gives a team a chance at advancing to recover from a bad race. The introduction of stages and the bonus points rewards season long consistency. I think a team that has consistent results throughout the season will have an above average chance at advancing though the playoffs. One thing I have noticed is that the racing intensity has gone way up with the current system. No system is prefect but I'm happy with the current system so far.
 
Snappy D said:
well if it were a true playoff, using playoff logic in other stick and ball sports..... Yes.
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Why is it necessary to apply playoff "logic" from other sports? It's a playoff system with its format devised to fit the fact that all competitors are on the "field" at the same time throughout the "regular season" and each playoff event.

It has appeal for some observers and not for others. You'll have that.
 
aunty dive said:
Why is it necessary to apply playoff "logic" from other sports? It's a playoff system with its format devised to fit the fact that all competitors are on the "field" at the same time throughout the "regular season" and each playoff event.

It has appeal for some observers and not for others. You'll have that.
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Well, it doesnt appeal to me because IMO a playoff shouldnt have competitors from the regular season that couldnt make the playoffs in it's playoffs event.
 
Formerjackman said:
If you have intellectual integrity, why WOUDN'T you still be upset? If you thought it was wrong then, what has changed that would make you think it is right NOW? If it had been a success and took NASCAR to even higher highs, then it would be fair to say that the naysayers were wrong, and even if they didn't like it, the masses DID, and that's all that matters, but we all know that is NOT what happened. To this very day, I have NEVER met a single NASCAR fan that was in favor of the Chase/Playoffs. Only on the internet have I found fans of it. I also don't understand why we should have to just shut up about things we don't like. I was always taught to believe that silence is consent. If you EVER have hope of changing the situation, how can you do it by just quietly accepting it? I'm STILL pissed at the designated hitter rule, one of the most idiotic rules in the history of sports.
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Well my thinking changed in that I found out I have way more important things to worry about than what point system NASCAR runs, I may or may not like it (in this case I dont) but I cant change it. I'll just enjoy the racing we do have and go from there. and to be fair, rando's I've talked to at races, customers I deal with during my work day who watch NASCAR also dont like the Chase, Playoffs , Playoff grid so I find that too. It's just what it is, I've learned to accept it I guess.
 
gnomesayin said:
I agree that the Latford system and other similar flat points scales are quite flawed and do not distribute points in a sensible way that rewards top performance. I commented on this during the pre-Chase days, though I didn't post much on racing forums at the time. As you say, winning and finishing toward the front is under-rewarded, and safe mid-pack consistency is over-rewarded. I think abomination is a bit strong. There are occasions in which the wrong driver won the championship, but I can't think of any in which the champion driver wasn't clearly among the top two or three performers for the season. If comparing to the current system, it is still quite possible for a driver who isn't among the top five over the course of the entire season to get hot in the playoffs and win the Homestead finale. Less so now than from 2014-2016, but still feasible.

That possibility certainly exists in some of the major team sports as well (sixth-seeded wild cards have won Super Bowls). My opinion is that playoffs and 'postseasons' are much more inevitable and natural in team sports than they are in either individual sports or motorsports, as evidenced by them evolving much earlier and more uniformly in the former than the latter. I agree that playoffs are largely a commercial concern, and it is why they continue to expand in several major sports. NASCAR's attempt to graft a playoffs onto its season would be easier to defend on these grounds if it had been commercially successful. It has not. There is no actual evidence that interest in the latter portion of the season has been improved. Only two major variables seem to govern the differences in viewership among NASCAR races: 1) when it occurs on the schedule (earlier races tend to rate higher) and 2) which track it takes place at (some notable venues are significantly more popular). The only event that has shown an increase relative to the season at large is the Homestead finale. That's it. Playoffs cut-off races don't rate higher than others, showing that NASCAR's version of eliminations don't move more fans to watch. They hype those endlessly, and the general audience doesn't care. They could achieve the same result with a 35-race regular season and one-off finale.

Is there another example of a sport that has created a playoffs, and after a long period the playoffs portion of the season is much less popular and viewed than the regular season? If so, it is probably the best argument possible that that sport doesn't benefit from having playoffs, or at least that it shouldn't be a major focus.
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Good thoughtful post, Mr. Gnome, as far as it goes. I stand by everything I said, and also agree with everything you said. The quagmire which has never been solved is to combine (a) proper reward to the winner and other top-5 finishers, with (b) a commercial need to maintain some degree of suspense into the late season. F1 emphasizes (a) and often suffers greatly from lack of (b) despite a season that is only about half as long as Nascar. Same for MotoGP. If Nascar did that, I postulate the late season interest would be a lot less than it has been. In the pre-Chase days, Nascar went for (b) and ignored (a), which I always found unfair and offensive. Like I said before, there is a compromise I would implement if I owned Nascar, but I don't have the financial stroke to buy it..:oops:
 
Snappy D said:
.... but I cant change it. I'll just enjoy the racing we do have and go from there. It's just what it is, I've learned to accept it I guess.
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Same here, Snappy D. Ranting and raving isn't going to change a thing. I'll just live with what I've got and be thankful that I have it.
I'm certainly not going to quit watching.
 
Snappy D said:
Well, it doesnt appeal to me because IMO a playoff shouldnt have competitors from the regular season that couldnt make the playoffs in it's playoffs event.
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That’s the NASCAR playoff format / business plan.

There are neither sticks nor balls.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Same here, Snappy D. Ranting and raving isn't going to change a thing. I'll just live with what I've got and be thankful that I have it.
I'm certainly not going to quit watching.
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Not to equate the two in any way, but this country was FOUNDED on people ranting and raving. Patrick Henry anyone? Thomas Paine? My employer has the American flag and the motto "Give me liberty or give me death" on our truck's mudflaps. Now THAT'S a rant. :)
 
Formerjackman said:
Not to equate the two in any way, but this country was FOUNDED on people ranting and raving. Patrick Henry anyone? Thomas Paine? My employer has the American flag and the motto "Give me liberty or give me death" on our truck's mudflaps. Now THAT'S a rant. :)
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Patrick Henry was in the Virginia legislature -- if I remember my history. I'm not and don't have a voice. I've made my displeasure known(in writing to NASCAR headquarters in Daytona -- not the fan council, BTW). Got a nice form letter in return.
My moaning and groaning here in the tiny little corner of the web universe is not going to change a thing.
So, I intend to enjoy what I do have.
 
If all of this had worked, the haters wouldn't have much to stand on, but it HASN'T, and when it comes to beating a dead horse, the concept of HAVING a playoff system is just as dead a horse as NOT having one. The Brian France business model is 1) Try something, 2) Fail miserably at it, 3) Double down on it.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Patrick Henry was in the Virginia legislature -- if I remember my history. I'm not and don't have a voice. I've made my displeasure known(in writing to NASCAR headquarters in Daytona -- not the fan council, BTW). Got a nice form letter in return.
My moaning and groaning here in the tiny little corner of the web universe is not going to change a thing.
So, I intend to enjoy what I do have.
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Well and fine, but just don't make the mistake of assuming that just because some of us have real issues with NASCAR, we don't enjoy it. If I didn't enjoy it so much, I wouldn't waste my time arguing about it.
 
Some people have thoughts that exceed Tweet length, or opinions beyond "Welp, nothing I can do about it. " I appreciate reading them when I'm interested in the subject. If I'm not interested, I let those who are discuss and focus on something else.
 
Zerkfitting said:
When the Chase started I was totally against it. It overlooked a season of consistent finishes. One bad race during the Chase and you were out of it. They were trying to come up with some kind of playoff system for racing. Under the old system the championship was pretty much over by Labor Day and the two or three contenders were points racing. The current system gives a team a chance at advancing to recover from a bad race. The introduction of stages and the bonus points rewards season long consistency. I think a team that has consistent results throughout the season will have an above average chance at advancing though the playoffs. One thing I have noticed is that the racing intensity has gone way up with the current system. No system is prefect but I'm happy with the current system so far.
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This is probably the most concise and persuasive argument I've seen in favor of the current system. I'm still not convinced that there is an inherent fatal flaw in a season-long championship structure, or that increased general interest is maintained by the playoffs. The flaw in the 'traditional' NASCAR system was the too-flat points scale. That's how you end up with points conservation racing when winning isn't properly incentivized. But well said.
 
I like the racing now as I have over the last 30 yrs. I have adjusted my thinking on somethings
BUT not enough to agree with " win and your in" and a champion being crowned because he was the best on the final race. I would prefer to see less drivers get in and use an elimination system to get to the final 4 with 3 races to go. Then it is total points over 3 races.
That is the best I could come up with on such short notice. :D
 
Team Penske said:
I would prefer to see less drivers get in and use an elimination system to get to the final 4 with 3 races to go. Then it is total points over 3 races.
That is the best I could come up with on such short notice. :D
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I could get on board with this. A 3-race series would definitely make more sense. They could reduce the playoff field by 4 drivers (16 is too many anyway), knock one race off the playoffs reducing it to 9 races, with three 3-race rounds. It would be best if the three races in the championship were all at different types of tracks (maybe one short track, one mile-and-a-half, and one non-RP track 2 miles or larger).
 
ToyYoda said:
I could get on board with this. A 3-race series would definitely make more sense. They could reduce the playoff field by 4 drivers (16 is too many anyway), knock one race off the playoffs reducing it to 9 races, with three 3-race rounds. It would be best if the three races in the championship were all at different types of tracks (maybe one short track, one mile-and-a-half, and one non-RP track 2 miles or larger).
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I could go with that, but throw in a road track instead of the 2 miler.
 
ToyYoda said:
I could get on board with this. A 3-race series would definitely make more sense. They could reduce the playoff field by 4 drivers (16 is too many anyway), knock one race off the playoffs reducing it to 9 races, with three 3-race rounds. It would be best if the three races in the championship were all at different types of tracks (maybe one short track, one mile-and-a-half, and one non-RP track 2 miles or larger).
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If NASCAR insists on a "playoff" this is by far the best proposal I've heard.
 
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