Final Four

Simple Fan said:
I think they are going in the right direction with the Playoffs. I do believe they should make the regular season championship a bigger deal and they've taken steps to do that with the 15 point bonus. That little trophy wasn't anything to look a tough.
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How about not resetting the points going into the Chase?
 
Mopardh9 said:
Why you laughing, look up the stats pre case /post chase attendance, tv ratings, number of sponsors in the sport. ..that will give you conclusive evidence the Chase hasn't done anything to make Nascar better, it is in fact just the opposite.
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While you are not wrong there is still no proof that that is the main reason for the decline. Sports viewership has been on the decline across the board with way more competition from streaming services, social interest, and many other things that just weren't around then. Now I'm sure a fair share of fans have left as a result ofthe Chase/Playoffs but to attribute one thing to NASCAR's declining numbers is simply wrong. You also have no way of knowing, if NASCAR had not instituted the Chase if the same decline would have happened.
 
Football is posting record lows, it's tough all over, millions cancelling their pay TV subs. Baseball needs a pitch clock, basketball and football don't need any quarter breaks, half times, all the 2 minute warnings, hand fulls of timeouts, These gimmicks are the reason for the declines right.:rolleyes: Makes about as much sense as most of the arguments about motorsports IMO.
 
Simple Fan said:
It does compare though because NASCAR has a playoff. I believe most of you have a problem with acceptance and change.
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It is one thing to accept change; it is another thing to accept an incorrect change.
 
StandOnIt said:
Football is posting record lows, it's tough all over, millions cancelling their pay TV subs. Baseball needs a pitch clock, basketball and football don't need any quarter breaks, half times, all the 2 minute warnings, hand fulls of timeouts, These gimmicks are the reason for the declines right.:rolleyes: Makes about as much sense as most of the arguments about motorsports IMO.
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You don't know what you're talking about
 
Simple Fan said:
While you are not wrong there is still no proof that that is the main reason for the decline. Sports viewership has been on the decline across the board with way more competition from streaming services, social interest, and many other things that just weren't around then. Now I'm sure a fair share of fans have left as a result ofthe Chase/Playoffs but to attribute one thing to NASCAR's declining numbers is simply wrong. You also have no way of knowing, if NASCAR had not instituted the Chase if the same decline would have happened.
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Really. ..why are fans turning away droves ...tell me 5 good reasons.
 
Wife has a great idea. We both feel the regular season champion should receive equally huge recognition and honor. So, do that, AND have that champion placed into one of 4 finalists at Homestead. Now THAT is a just reward for winning the season. The next 9 races play out as they do now, with the last 3 playoff championship contenders advancing to Homestead.

This way the regular season champ is always in the hunt for the playoff trophy.
 
StandOnIt said:
Football is posting record lows, it's tough all over, millions cancelling their pay TV subs. Baseball needs a pitch clock, basketball and football don't need any quarter breaks, half times, all the 2 minute warnings, hand fulls of timeouts, These gimmicks are the reason for the declines right.:rolleyes: Makes about as much sense as most of the arguments about motorsports IMO.
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There is so much garbage misinformation out there about NFL ratings. Even with the declines of 2016 and 2017 (aggregate NFL ratings are now down 5.7% in 2017 vs. 2016 through Week 10), their average ratings are higher than they were a decade ago. 2013-2015 represented a peak that they are now falling from. It is simply not true in any genuine sense that "record lows" are being posted.

If we're going to compare NFL apples to NASCAR oranges, NASCAR's peak was from about 2004-2006. They've lost more than 50% of the audience from those highs. Let's not pretend it's the same.

What can be fairly said is that network television ratings have decreased generally everywhere. Forget sports. All TV audiences are smaller and more fragmented, and the most watched individual program on television every year since 2010 has been..."Sunday Night Football".

Quarters and periods in stick and ball sports are not gimmicks . Those games were conceived that way, and are broken up for logical reasons, because giving players rest breaks tends to make sense. I will grant you that football's two-minute warning is a gimmick, as is basketball's three-point shot, which has completely changed the game. NASCAR is not alone as a sport that has been deliberately tweaked for entertainment purposes, but the changes in the past 15 years have been more severe and IMO the people running NASCAR lack the patience and savvy to 'spice up' the sport while maintaining its integrity. None of this is the fault of the teams and drivers, who are competing at a higher level than they ever have. Still, the format is a sham, and people who just go with the flow and accept whatever BS they are given aren't helping the sport's fortunes long-term.
 
Simple Fan said:
So you'd rather they just go back to the Chase? I don't see how you believe the final race means more than winning 6-8 other races. Those 6-8 could get you in the championship, look at Truex.
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I have watched divers win 6-8 races in the season and go out of the chase in the first round.This "Lottery Champion" might be good for the KB fans but I like to see the BEST TEAM win.
 
gnomesayin said:
There is so much garbage misinformation out there about NFL ratings. Even with the declines of 2016 and 2017 (aggregate NFL ratings are now down 5.7% in 2017 vs. 2016 through Week 10), their average ratings are higher than they were a decade ago. 2013-2015 represented a peak that they are now falling from. It is simply not true in any genuine sense that "record lows" are being posted.

If we're going to compare NFL apples to NASCAR oranges, NASCAR's peak was from about 2004-2006. They've lost more than 50% of the audience from those highs. Let's not pretend it's the same.

What can be fairly said is that network television ratings have decreased generally everywhere. Forget sports. All TV audiences are smaller and more fragmented, and the most watched individual program on television every year since 2010 has been..."Sunday Night Football".

Quarters and periods in stick and ball sports are not gimmicks . Those games were conceived that way, and are broken up for logical reasons, because giving players rest breaks tends to make sense. I will grant you that football's two-minute warning is a gimmick, as is basketball's three-point shot, which has completely changed the game. NASCAR is not alone as a sport that has been deliberately tweaked for entertainment purposes, but the changes in the past 15 years have been more severe and IMO the people running NASCAR lack the patience and savvy to 'spice up' the sport while maintaining its integrity. None of this is the fault of the teams and drivers, who are competing at a higher level than they ever have. Still, the format is a sham, and people who just go with the flow and accept whatever BS they are given aren't helping the sport's fortunes long-term.
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Spot on!
 
What is it with the chorus of those who say "It isn't changing back, get used to it." Get used to what? Major changes are made every few years in a new attempt to 'enhance' a sport that clearly has severe self-esteem issues. How could anyone be certain of what is or isn't coming next? Nobody in the public sphere had any concept of stage racing less than a year ago.
 
gnomesayin said:
What is it with the chorus of those who say "It isn't changing back, get used to it." Get used to what? Major changes are made every few years in a new attempt to 'enhance' a sport that clearly has severe self-esteem issues. How could anyone be certain of what is or isn't coming next? Nobody in the public sphere had any concept of stage racing less than a year ago.
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If we have more changes=gimmicks, Nascar won't be around much longer, at least not the way we know it. Nascar has to get back to basics, this final 4 crap, while I tried to embrace it, just convoluted and weakens the sport...gimmick. You can't equate the final 4 in other sports to what we have in Nascar, they don't compare and they shouldn't. If Nascar wants to great again, they need to get back to basics, get back to what made the sport awesome. Gimmicks aren't the right route.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Really. ..why are fans turning away droves ...tell me 5 good reasons.
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There are way more than 5 and I really shouldn't have to explain them, as I said there is alot more competition today with streaming services and social media. Economy took a hit in that time and most Nascar fans are working class. Technology is alot more accessible now and has taken over youths interest where the car used to be. Also as I've said you are not wrong as changes NASCAR has made has resulted in some fans loosing interest. I'm just saying to put the blame on one thing is kind of silly, especially when you can't prove that the decline wouldn't happen had the Chase not been instituted.
 
Team Penske said:
I have watched divers win 6-8 races in the season and go out of the chase in the first round.This "Lottery Champion" might be good for the KB fans but I like to see the BEST TEAM win.
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No you haven't. That has literally never happened since the playoffs started. I'm interested to see who you think you've seen eliminated in the first round after 6-8 wins though.
 
Well..... The main reason Nascar isn't doing well, the final 4, Chase, and stage racing aside is the fact the racing really isn't that good. All these reasons citing there are more social media now, streaming stuff, yada ...yada....bottom line is good racing puts fans in the seats, not gimmicks. Come Sunday, actually come Friday look at the stands for the truck race, I'll bet there won't be more that 15,000 in the stands and as for the Xfinity race probably a little more. All three series should be pretty much packing the place for a championship weekend, albeit the lower series don't sell out, but relative to normal race attendance they should be doing much better. When Sunday rolls around I would bet the current Capacity: 55,000 Grandstand seats, aren't nearly full. Now that is 55K, that's hardly a huge number for a venue that holds the championship race weekend and has since the early 2000s. Why is that?
 
Simple Fan said:
No you haven't. That has literally never happened since the playoffs started. I'm interested to see who you think you've seen eliminated in the first round after 6-8 wins though.
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Kyle Busch in 2008, essentially.
 
gnomesayin said:
"It isn't changing back, get used to it."
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Just let me remind people of the fabulous racing machine "The COT". Looks like Nascar can go back because the cars today resemble some of the street machines. Once people with their heads in the clouds understand that it is what the fans want that matters they will eventually change more towards the past.
 
Team Penske said:
Just let me remind people of the fabulous racing machine "The COT". Looks like Nascar can go back because the cars today resemble some of the street machines. Once people with their heads in the clouds understand that it is what the fans want that matters they will eventually change more towards the past.
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I can only hope this happens, but i have my doubts. The France family has made an awful lot of money off the sport, it wouldn't surprise me if they ran it into the ground, took their cash and said cya.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I can only hope this happens, but i have my doubts. The France family has made an awful lot of money off the sport, it wouldn't surprise me if they ran it into the ground, took their cash and said cya.
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If that is their intent then selling the rights would be their final move and the NEW owners can then try to make a come back.
If this ever happens I think the top 5 teams would do the buyout and run the show themselves.
 
Team Penske said:
If that is their intent then selling the rights would be their final move and the NEW owners can then try to make a come back.
If this ever happens I think the top 5 teams would do the buyout and run the show themselves.
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Hmmm...interesting, but then there would be cries of collusion, plus that cost of a buyout would be astronomical I would think?
 
Mopardh9 said:
Well..... The main reason Nascar isn't doing well, the final 4, Chase, and stage racing aside is the fact the racing really isn't that good. All these reasons citing there are more social media now, streaming stuff, yada ...yada....bottom line is good racing puts fans in the seats, not gimmicks. Come Sunday, actually come Friday look at the stands for the truck race, I'll bet there won't be more that 15,000 in the stands and as for the Xfinity race probably a little more. All three series should be pretty much packing the place for a championship weekend, albeit the lower series don't sell out, but relative to normal race attendance they should be doing much better. When Sunday rolls around I would bet the current Capacity: 55,000 Grandstand seats, aren't nearly full. Now that is 55K, that's hardly a huge number for a venue that holds the championship race weekend and has since the early 2000s. Why is that?
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I believe you are clouded by your hate for the format and there is no hope for you.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Why you laughing, look up the stats pre case /post chase attendance, tv ratings, number of sponsors in the sport. ..that will give you conclusive evidence the Chase hasn't done anything to make Nascar better, it is in fact just the opposite.
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It's impossible to know what attendance and TV numbers would look like if the Chase had not been implemented. Those numbers might be even worse.
 
I'll make my prediction, Kevin Harvick. He has the best track record at Homestead and he's revalidating his nickname as of late. He'll be tough to beat Sunday.
 
jaqua19 said:
I can't help but shake my head at the people who don't understand the the way the world works, and think getting rid of the chase will be good for the sport..attendence etc.
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I cant help think how anyone sees the chase, stage racing, and the final 4 real Nascar racing!!!!
 
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