General consensus – A Johnson win takes away from the enjoyment of the race

I dont buy the idea of drivers who are more in shape achieve better results. Carl Edwards is a gym rat & he aint out there winning every week. Tony Stewart is a fat old man and he won in 2011. Gordon is the type of guy who can eat anything he wants and his metabolism will get rid of it without packing on a single pound. Hes had some strength therapy for his back but thats really about it. Yeah JJ is a marathon runner but so is Kasey Kahne and we all know how Kasey's seasons have been. I just dont buy it.

Plus JJ is only 4 years younger than Jeff. Age is fair to no man, even 6 time.
If your body is in good shape it affects things such as reflexes and reaction time. Carl Edwards is the best driver at Roush by far and I think his workout routine has a lot to do with it.
 
:mad:
Since the winner is not declared until the checkered flag, how can you not enjoy the WHOLE race? You may not like
the winner, but what does that have to do with all the laps run except the last one?

I can enjoy the race and not like the winner every week.

I'm not pleased when anyone other than Kenseth wins the race but I can unequivocally say that I've enjoyed every race I watched this year and we all know how many of those was won by the #20 :mad: LOL
 
Guess what? "Your driver" isn't going to win every week, Hell, enjoy the race.
 
Jimmie gets probably 10% of the hate that Jeff got when he was whipping on Dale Sr week in and week out. The jealousy and resentment that most fans harbored towards Jeff Gordon and his fans was absolutely atrocious. It was all too common to hear grown men and women tell little kids wearing JG gear that they were going to grow up to be a f*ggot or a queer. It was really that bad and often worse. Cars with JG stickers would get vandalized. RV's with JG emblems would get their windows smashed out. One could go on all day about it. I'd always deflect the hate from me by telling the Dale fans how great a driver Dale Sr was and how much fun it was to watch him race Jeff. That worked about 95% of the time but the other 5% sometimes ended differently. Good times.

To hear that some fans don't enjoy seeing Jimmie win is no surprise. Hell, Dale Sr got a ton of boo's when he was winning his Cups.

Citations please
 
I like Jimmie and was glad to see him finally get a win Sunday night. It would have interfered with my enjoyment much more had Harvick passed him for the win.
Agreed.

I have nothing against Harvick, but I wanted Johnson to win that race because he deserved it after having been snakebitten a couple of times this year, and Harvick has already won and has been a threat to win almost every week. I want to see as many different winners as possible.
 
Jimmie gets probably 10% of the hate that Jeff got when he was whipping on Dale Sr week in and week out. The jealousy and resentment that most fans harbored towards Jeff Gordon and his fans was absolutely atrocious. It was all too common to hear grown men and women tell little kids wearing JG gear that they were going to grow up to be a f*ggot or a queer. It was really that bad and often worse. Cars with JG stickers would get vandalized. RV's with JG emblems would get their windows smashed out. One could go on all day about it. I'd always deflect the hate from me by telling the Dale fans how great a driver Dale Sr was and how much fun it was to watch him race Jeff. That worked about 95% of the time but the other 5% sometimes ended differently. Good times.

To hear that some fans don't enjoy seeing Jimmie win is no surprise. Hell, Dale Sr got a ton of boo's when he was winning his Cups.
I've been to a lot of races in my lifetime and I can't say that I've ever witnessed any of what you're talking about when it comes to harassment of Gordon fans or the destruction of their property. To imply that this was some kind of widespread occurrence is anything but reality. I spent many nights in track campgrounds and never saw anything more than the friendly ribbing that normally goes on and still does today.
 
Jimmie gets probably 10% of the hate that Jeff got when he was whipping on Dale Sr week in and week out. The jealousy and resentment that most fans harbored towards Jeff Gordon and his fans was absolutely atrocious. It was all too common to hear grown men and women tell little kids wearing JG gear that they were going to grow up to be a f*ggot or a queer. It was really that bad and often worse. Cars with JG stickers would get vandalized. RV's with JG emblems would get their windows smashed out. One could go on all day about it. I'd always deflect the hate from me by telling the Dale fans how great a driver Dale Sr was and how much fun it was to watch him race Jeff. That worked about 95% of the time but the other 5% sometimes ended differently. Good times.

To hear that some fans don't enjoy seeing Jimmie win is no surprise. Hell, Dale Sr got a ton of boo's when he was winning his Cups.

anecdotal......when jg 1st started winnin....my best friend was huge sr fan. had goodwrench biz links....an we traveled ta races together. i had jg dupont multi-colored jacket i'd wear. pissed him off ! ha!
people in airports were thumbs up. not so much at track. diff fan base.
fans luved sr......or hated him. not much in between.

jj has same fans......luv....or "grandicide" . i fall in latter group.
ya got enuff wins jj....time ta pass tha torch.
like chad -n- hms listen ta me ! ha! doubtful that'll happen anytime soon !

at my age...i luv tha racin....regardless of.winner .
.....but pull for underdogs....younguns ! larson...chase...etc


*******edit....agree w/ dp above !
 
Since the winner is not declared until the checkered flag, how can you not enjoy the WHOLE race? You may not like
the winner, but what does that have to do with all the laps run except the last one?

I can enjoy the race and not like the winner every week.

Tremendous post. Nailed it.
 
I don't care for JJ, never did. No reason. I don't care for peas either.

That is the best way to defend disliking or even the dreaded H word imo.

It can be as simple as that, and nobody has to love any driver. I use to really despise some drivers, I just outgrew it with time. At least that sounds better than saying I am no longer as passionate.
 
I've been to a lot of races in my lifetime and I can't say that I've ever witnessed any of what you're talking about when it comes to harassment of Gordon fans or the destruction of their property. To imply that this was some kind of widespread occurrence is anything but reality. I spent many nights in track campgrounds and never saw anything more than the friendly ribbing that normally goes on and still does today.

Absolutely agree. I went to a lot of races rooting for Dale and wearing the colors, and I never anything remotely close to the accusations made in Matthews post.
 
Eh, people like a winner until they start winning too much.

As for cheating by the 48 team. Yea....once again, the worst kept secret in Motorsport is everyone cheats. Hel, Smokey Yunick was notorious for working around the rules set down by NASCAR and he's a hero in NASCAR fans of today.
 
Right, not 6 in 8 years including 5 in a row. 5 years of the same champion turned fans off from him. If there was some variety in champions the sport thrives.

I don't disagree with that at all. Your post just made it sound like the only reason he had any championships was because kf the chase. No harm, no foul. Just pointing out that that wasn't the case.
 
I don't disagree with that at all. Your post just made it sound like the only reason he had any championships was because kf the chase. No harm, no foul. Just pointing out that that wasn't the case.

The problem I have with people saying that Johnson won 6 Championships because of the "Welfare points system", is that 42 other drivers had the same chance that Chad and Johnson did to win those Championships. What is it specifically about the points system that helped Johnson and Chad and hindered the other drivers?
 
The problem I have with people saying that Johnson won 6 Championships because of the "Welfare points system", is that 42 other drivers had the same chance that Chad and Johnson did to win those Championships. What is it specifically about the points system that helped Johnson and Chad and hindered the other drivers?
The tracks chosen for the Chase happen to be some of Johnson's strongest tracks.
 
Weird how golf tends to thrive whenever Tiger is on TV playing (or at least it did before the whole infidelity scandal). Some sports people love to see a master at work. Others, apparently, not so much. :idunno:
 
The problem I have with people saying that Johnson won 6 Championships because of the "Welfare points system", is that 42 other drivers had the same chance that Chad and Johnson did to win those Championships. What is it specifically about the points system that helped Johnson and Chad and hindered the other drivers?

Everybody knew the rules in advance. If anyones primary above all else goal was to score the most points over 36 events during a chase season, rather than the last 10 they shouldn't tell anyone. No need to admit to being a fool.

They just couldn't beat him according to the stated rules, plain and simple.
 
Everybody knew the rules in advance. If anyones primary above all else goal was to score the most points over 36 events during a chase season, rather than the last 10 they shouldn't tell anyone. No need to admit to being a fool.

They just couldn't beat him according to the stated rules, plain and simple.
YEAH BUT JIMMEH COULDN'T BEAT THE KING OR SEENYUR.
 
They should definitely put a road course in the Chase. How can you determine a champion if he hasn't raced on all types of tracks?
 
They should definitely put a road course in the Chase. How can you determine a champion if he hasn't raced on all types of tracks?
Even then he isn't horrible; he's ranked 9th among active drivers at road courses.
 
The problem I have with people saying that Johnson won 6 Championships because of the "Welfare points system", is that 42 other drivers had the same chance that Chad and Johnson did to win those Championships. What is it specifically about the points system that helped Johnson and Chad and hindered the other drivers?
For one, NASCAR made no effort to diversify the Chase schedule. All they did was lop off the final ten races and make that the Chase, which was dumb since then the playoff venues weren't representative of the types of tracks you raced on in the regular season to get into the Chase in the first place. Why you can have a driver win a race on a road course and qualify for the Chase and then not have a road course after the reset just boggles my mind.

I've read posts that say Chad and Jimmie adapted their strategy to become most successful at the types of tracks that dominate the Chase - the intermediate tracks between 1 and 2 miles. Well, not really. Even before the Chase, that was the type of track they were best at. In 75 starts from 2001-2003 these were Jimmie's average finish stats:

Speedways (1-2 miles): 11.5
Speedways (2+ miles): 14.5
Short tracks: 15.0
Road courses: 18.0

In comparison, Jeff Gordon from 1992-2003:

Road courses: 10.6
Speedways (2+ miles): 11.5
Short tracks: 11.6
Speedways (1-2 miles): 12.7

You look at the Chase schedule today, and you see eight speedways between 1-2 miles, one short track, one speedway over 2 miles, and zero road courses. That's one of the reasons why the Chase is a farce, in my opinion. You used to be judged on your performance at all types of tracks over the course of the whole season, and now you're simply judged on what was already the back end of the schedule.
 
For one, NASCAR made no effort to diversify the Chase schedule. All they did was lop off the final ten races and make that the Chase, which was dumb since then the playoff venues weren't representative of the types of tracks you raced on in the regular season to get into the Chase in the first place. Why you can have a driver win a race on a road course and qualify for the Chase and then not have a road course after the reset just boggles my mind.

I've read posts that say Chad and Jimmie adapted their strategy to become most successful at the types of tracks that dominate the Chase - the intermediate tracks between 1 and 2 miles. Well, not really. Even before the Chase, that was the type of track they were best at. In 75 starts from 2001-2003 these were Jimmie's average finish stats:

Speedways (1-2 miles): 11.5
Speedways (2+ miles): 14.5
Short tracks: 15.0
Road courses: 18.0

In comparison, Jeff Gordon from 1992-2003:

Road courses: 10.6
Speedways (2+ miles): 11.5
Short tracks: 11.6
Speedways (1-2 miles): 12.7

You look at the Chase schedule today, and you see eight speedways between 1-2 miles, one short track, one speedway over 2 miles, and zero road courses. That's one of the reasons why the Chase is a farce, in my opinion. You used to be judged on your performance at all types of tracks over the course of the whole season, and now you're simply judged on what was already the back end of the schedule.
The majority of the tracks on the circuit are speedways between 1 & 2 miles. Canning one of them in favor of Watkins Glen wouldn't really change much, IMO.
 
The majority of the tracks on the circuit are speedways between 1 & 2 miles. Canning one of them in favor of Watkins Glen wouldn't really change much, IMO.
Maybe not that one change alone, but overall - there are nine races at tracks between 1-2 miles in the first 26 races and then there are suddenly eight in the final 10. Look at the short tracks - five in the first 26 races, only one in the final 10. It's like changing the dimensions of the field to CFL regulations for the Super Bowl.
 
For one, NASCAR made no effort to diversify the Chase schedule. All they did was lop off the final ten races and make that the Chase, which was dumb since then the playoff venues weren't representative of the types of tracks you raced on in the regular season to get into the Chase in the first place. Why you can have a driver win a race on a road course and qualify for the Chase and then not have a road course after the reset just boggles my mind.

I've read posts that say Chad and Jimmie adapted their strategy to become most successful at the types of tracks that dominate the Chase - the intermediate tracks between 1 and 2 miles. Well, not really. Even before the Chase, that was the type of track they were best at. In 75 starts from 2001-2003 these were Jimmie's average finish stats:

Speedways (1-2 miles): 11.5
Speedways (2+ miles): 14.5
Short tracks: 15.0
Road courses: 18.0

In comparison, Jeff Gordon from 1992-2003:

Road courses: 10.6
Speedways (2+ miles): 11.5
Short tracks: 11.6
Speedways (1-2 miles): 12.7

You look at the Chase schedule today, and you see eight speedways between 1-2 miles, one short track, one speedway over 2 miles, and zero road courses. That's one of the reasons why the Chase is a farce, in my opinion. You used to be judged on your performance at all types of tracks over the course of the whole season, and now you're simply judged on what was already the back end of the schedule.
All of this.

Call me butthurt, but Gordon outscoring Johnson by 353 points in 2007 and yet the fact that Johnson still took the trophy has twisted my idea about the chase forever. Its a gimmick. Its a farce. It doesnt crown a 100% champion. It wreaks of Brian France bullschit. Jimmie Johnson can have all of the Chase trophies he can fit on his shelves, but he will never have won a Winston Cup trophy - which crowned a season race champion.
 
All of this.

Call me butthurt, but Gordon outscoring Johnson by 353 points in 2007 and yet the fact that Johnson still took the trophy has twisted my idea about the chase forever. Its a gimmick. Its a farce. It doesnt crown a 100% champion. It wreaks of Brian France bullschit.

IMHO, Gordon, Johnson and all the other drivers knew the rules going into each and every season. Chad and Johnson were the one to exploit the rules to their advantage. Stewart successfully did the same in 2011. If there's one thing I've learned about Chad and Johnson is that they are really really good at adapting to new situations. I mean yea, if he won one or two championships, then I'd actually agree with you guys., But c'mon, you don't win five in a row and then a sixth without actually being the best in the sport.
 
IMHO, Gordon, Johnson and all the other drivers knew the rules going into each and every season. Chad and Johnson were the one to exploit the rules to their advantage. Stewart successfully did the same in 2011. If there's one thing I've learned about Chad and Johnson is that they are really really good at adapting to new situations. I mean yea, if he won one or two championships, then I'd actually agree with you guys., But c'mon, you don't win five in a row and then a sixth without actually being the best in the sport.
Youre 100% correct. You just have to be the best from New Hampshire to Homestead. Ask Tony yourself ;)
 
For one, NASCAR made no effort to diversify the Chase schedule. All they did was lop off the final ten races and make that the Chase, which was dumb since then the playoff venues weren't representative of the types of tracks you raced on in the regular season to get into the Chase in the first place. Why you can have a driver win a race on a road course and qualify for the Chase and then not have a road course after the reset just boggles my mind.

I've read posts that say Chad and Jimmie adapted their strategy to become most successful at the types of tracks that dominate the Chase - the intermediate tracks between 1 and 2 miles. Well, not really. Even before the Chase, that was the type of track they were best at. In 75 starts from 2001-2003 these were Jimmie's average finish stats:

Speedways (1-2 miles): 11.5
Speedways (2+ miles): 14.5
Short tracks: 15.0
Road courses: 18.0

In comparison, Jeff Gordon from 1992-2003:

Road courses: 10.6
Speedways (2+ miles): 11.5
Short tracks: 11.6
Speedways (1-2 miles): 12.7

You look at the Chase schedule today, and you see eight speedways between 1-2 miles, one short track, one speedway over 2 miles, and zero road courses. That's one of the reasons why the Chase is a farce, in my opinion. You used to be judged on your performance at all types of tracks over the course of the whole season, and now you're simply judged on what was already the back end of the schedule.
Maybe not that one change alone, but overall - there are nine races at tracks between 1-2 miles in the first 26 races and then there are suddenly eight in the final 10. Look at the short tracks - five in the first 26 races, only one in the final 10. It's like changing the dimensions of the field to CFL regulations for the Super Bowl.

very good points fl !
not sure how that's gonna change tho . ?
$$ tracks in chase.
 
very good points fl !
not sure how that's gonna change tho . ?
$$ tracks in chase.
Yeah, for the most part I don't see it changing. Weather is an issue in the last few months of the season so they pretty much have to close with southern tracks anyways. NBC may want a road course or something though, I'm sure they'll have some input considering what they paid.
 
I've been to a lot of races in my lifetime and I can't say that I've ever witnessed any of what you're talking about when it comes to harassment of Gordon fans or the destruction of their property. To imply that this was some kind of widespread occurrence is anything but reality. I spent many nights in track campgrounds and never saw anything more than the friendly ribbing that normally goes on and still does today.

I've seen it, I've heard stories directly from JG fans, I've seen pictures posted on JG message boards as well as read accounts of JG haters bragging about things. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I never stated that it was rampant but it happened. Get 100,000 people together with 90% of them hating Gordon and it's easy to see how things would get out of hand. The further south, the worse it got. What other drivers have you seen get pelted with hundreds of beer cans because they won a race? My main point is that what JJ and his fans deal with is not even close to what used to happen.
 
Just like an 8-8 regular season football team and upset an undefeated team in the Superbowl. NASCAR has a playoff system now, and has for some time.

Bach-deal-with-it.jpg
 
Just like an 8-8 regular season football team and upset an undefeated team in the Superbowl. NASCAR has a playoff system now, and has for some time.
Football playoffs aren't quite as dumb though.

But SpeedPagan asked, I answered. I don't have a problem with Jimmie winning. Watching the Earnhardt fans' reaction when he gets to seven titles will be worth it.
 
Except that NASCAR isn't a ball sport. A playoff system doesn't belong in motorsports. It's the only motorsport with a playoff system.
Maybe so, but it is what it is at this point and all of the drivers/teams know this.
 
Back
Top Bottom