Has Kevin Harvick (at age 43) Lost A Step?

Formerjackman said:
Kulwicki was a flying unicorn even in 1992. It was a one off miracle that was never going to be repeated. Unless he dramatically changed his way of doing things, I'm not sure he even would have had a team by the late 90's, and if he did, he would have been racing Dave Marcis.
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Yeah. And now we watch bullschit races manipulated by a corporation that thinks they know what we should watch.
 
MAGICMILER said:
I am not a fan of Joey, but I have seen Joey wrenching on his cars at Waterford Speedbowl. He knows how to turn a wrench, and that's counts for something.
Wasn't Dale Sr. Filthy rich when Jr. started racing.?
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What does Dale Jr have to do with Joey Logano's upbringing? I'm just saying, you said he wasn't wealthy coming up and that isn't the case. Not saying for better or worse, just putting the information out there.
 
cheesepuffs said:
What does Dale Jr have to do with Joey Logano's upbringing? I'm just saying, you said he wasn't wealthy coming up and that isn't the case. Not saying for better or worse, just putting the information out there.
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What does a girls skating rink have to do with turning wrenches? He wasn't wealthy coming up. Quite the opposite. .Do you live in New England, do you know the family history, or is your info from trusty 'ol Google? Just putting facts out there .
 
OldTimer said:
You are full of crap, that is bias and you know it. If this kid murdered a six year old child and you would have an excuse for him.

As far as his father and grandfather, have nothing but respect for them...they worked for it.

Listen, my only grievance with Elliot is that he did not go through the school of hard knocks, same as some others. He has been groomed with the best equipment available, never had to scrape a knuckle due to a rounded off nut. That is just one of my biased contentions, but I am a man enough to admit it, you are not.

If Elliot would have not ADMITTED he determined the out come of the race, I might have just given him a pass as to his arrogance as to him thinking that Harvick owed him a hole when Chase dove between Harvick and the lapped car. Harvick had him by half a car....hence the exhaust pipe cutting Chase's LF. When Chase pinched Harvick, what was he supposed to do, back out of it? No, you have the position, you use it.
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MAGICMILER said:
What does a girls skating rink have to do with turning wrenches? He wasn't wealthy coming up. Quite the opposite. .Do you live in New England, do you know the family history, or is your info from trusty 'ol Google? Just putting facts out there .
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This is from a Ryan Mcgee ESPN article from 2013

"Logano's earliest racing efforts were backed by his father, Tom, a businessman who experienced great success in the waste management industry. Eventually, the elder Logano moved the family from Connecticut to Georgia so Joey could race. He also went to great financial lengths to support his daughter's love of competitive ice skating."

Are you saying this is not true?
 
Formerjackman said:
This is from a Ryan Mcgee ESPN article from 2013

"Logano's earliest racing efforts were backed by his father, Tom, a businessman who experienced great success in the waste management industry. Eventually, the elder Logano moved the family from Connecticut to Georgia so Joey could race. He also went to great financial lengths to support his daughter's love of competitive ice skating."

Are you saying this is not true?
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I'm saying it's somewhat true. The thing is, Joey turned wrenches. I've seen it in his younger days, at tracks in Ct. Don't tell me it was handed to him. It wasn't. As I said, I'm not a Joey fan , and The "silver "spoon was plastic, and it broke. Frequently.
Here in the Northeast, we read more than 1 article from ESPN. I'm done, bedtime for me...
 
MAGICMILER said:
I'm saying it's somewhat true. The thing is, Joey turned wrenches. I've seen it in his younger days, at tracks in Ct. Don't tell me it was handed to him. It wasn't. As I said, I'm not a Joey fan , and The "silver "spoon was plastic, and it broke. Frequently.
Here in the Northeast, we read more than 1 article from ESPN. I'm done, bedtime for me...
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Does your back hurt from having to lug those goal poasts around from location to location every argument? Are you going to tell me that Chase Elliott didn't wrench on his kart, late model, and SLM? You know, coming from the Elliott clan who were famous for doing everything themselves? Oh, and if you disagree, I know. I can't prove I know, but since I said I know and am dropping facts I win. *eyeroll*
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
Does your back hurt from having to lug those goal poasts around from location to location every argument? Are you going to tell me that Chase Elliott didn't wrench on his kart, late model, and SLM? You know, coming from the Elliott clan who were famous for doing everything themselves? Oh, and if you disagree, I know. I can't prove I know, but since I said I know and am dropping facts I win. *eyeroll*
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Not sure why we're so far into chase and joey in this thread but I believe by the time Chase was in a SLM it was a HMS prepared car. At least for the snowball derby, heck they even had a HMS crew chief (cant recall his name).

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Formerjackman said:
This is from a Ryan Mcgee ESPN article from 2013

"Logano's earliest racing efforts were backed by his father, Tom, a businessman who experienced great success in the waste management industry. Eventually, the elder Logano moved the family from Connecticut to Georgia so Joey could race. He also went to great financial lengths to support his daughter's love of competitive ice skating."

Are you saying this is not true?
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Does it really matter if a driver came from money or not? It's not like they had a choice in it. The biggest thing is money can get you there but you need to do something when you get there. Some did as in Joey's case. But plenty of others didn't (Menard, Buckshot Jones)

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Dr_B_UNC said:
Does your back hurt from having to lug those goal poasts around from location to location every argument? Are you going to tell me that Chase Elliott didn't wrench on his kart, late model, and SLM? You know, coming from the Elliott clan who were famous for doing everything themselves? Oh, and if you disagree, I know. I can't prove I know, but since I said I know and am dropping facts I win. *eyeroll*
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I never mentioned Chase... But he fits the narrative I put forth about drivers wrenching their own stuff " pre famousness"..
Anyway, Kevin has lost a little, but it happens with age.
 
MAGICMILER said:
I never mentioned Chase... But he fits the narrative I put forth about drivers wrenching their own stuff " pre famousness"..
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I'll re-state two questions.

1) How do you know he didn't? Just because you didn't witness it, or see a video of it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
2) How much opportunity did he actually have top do it even if he had the desire to do so?
 
Formerjackman said:
I'll re-state two questions.

1) How do you know he didn't? Just because you didn't witness it, or see a video of it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
2) How much opportunity did he actually have top do it even if he had the desire to do so?
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Read my post. I never said he didn't. I said he fits the mold of drivers wrenching their own equipment, meaning they know more than a Clutch, gas pedal and stick shift. They know foot pounds, firing order, gears, etc.
I can't attest to his desire to wrench his own equipment, but I'd like to think that his father had him work a wrench, just to appreciate what is involved, and instill a desire to learn the hows and whys of any form of racing.
Kevin may be in a slump, but slumps come and go....Time will.tell.
 
Can I ask Does it matter if a driver knows how to wrench his own car? Does it diminish their ability to win championships or win races? All I can say is if I had made my last name famous in racing and my child wanted to pursue it, I would take every avenue I know at that level available, to put him/her in the best equipment possible at every level up the ladder. I think you’d be damn sure I’d exploit every relationship possible to help my kid out. As a parent don’t we want to make sure we make the best possible life for a child as much in our control as parents we can? I don’t care about public opinion at that point, I would just care if my child is able to succeed. Why are we holding it against an Earnhardt Jr, Elliott or someone wealthy like Logano? I personally never found it relevant to if the driver can win on Sundays. I never understood why people care about that stuff.
 
Snappy D said:
Can I ask Does it matter if a driver knows how to wrench his own car? Does it diminish their ability to win championships or win races? All I can say is if I had made my last name famous in racing and my child wanted to pursue it, I would take every avenue available to put him in the best equipment possible at every level. I don’t care about public opinion at that point, I would just care if my child is able to succeed. Why are we holding it against an Earnhardt Jr, Elliott or someone wealthy like Logano? I personally never found it relevant to if the driver can win on Sundays. I never understood why people care about that stuff.
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There are no paupers in NASCAR.
This isn’t 1950.
 
Snappy D said:
Can I ask Does it matter if a driver knows how to wrench his own car? Does it diminish their ability to win championships or win races? All I can say is if I had made my last name famous in racing and my child wanted to pursue it, I would take every avenue I know at that level available, to put him/her in the best equipment possible at every level up the ladder. I think you’d be damn sure I’d exploit every relationship possible to help my kid out. As a parent don’t we want to make sure we make the best possible life for a child as much in our control as parents we can? I don’t care about public opinion at that point, I would just care if my child is able to succeed. Why are we holding it against an Earnhardt Jr, Elliott or someone wealthy like Logano? I personally never found it relevant to if the driver can win on Sundays. I never understood why people care about that stuff.
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Plus hell ask Jason Jarrett or Justin Labonte how far their last name got them. Hell all it for them was some cheap ass video game. People seem to think all you need is that name. Yeah it helps for sure, won’t deny it. But you gotta have some sort of damn talent to go along with it.
 
Blaze said:
Plus hell ask Jason Jarrett or Justin Labonte how far their last name got them. Hell all it for them was some cheap ass video game. People seem to think all you need is that name. Yeah it helps for sure, won’t deny it. But you gotta have some sort of damn talent to go along with it.
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I agree. A name may get you in the door, but after that you have to produce. The landscape is littered with famous name offspring that couldn't make it stick. Since you mentioned Jason Jarrett, I got to watch him up close waste a top two car in the ARCA Series for three years. I like Jason, he was always nice to me, but honestly, the guy couldn't drive a nail.
 
Blaze said:
Plus hell ask Jason Jarrett or Justin Labonte how far their last name got them. Hell all it for them was some cheap ass video game. People seem to think all you need is that name. Yeah it helps for sure, won’t deny it. But you gotta have some sort of damn talent to go along with it.
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100% agree. You said what I was trying to say better than I did.
 
Harvick loves the drama and attention. As soon as the fans started booing him, that little smirk comes across his face.

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MAGICMILER said:
What does a girls skating rink have to do with turning wrenches? He wasn't wealthy coming up. Quite the opposite. .Do you live in New England, do you know the family history, or is your info from trusty 'ol Google? Just putting facts out there .
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I'm from Connecticut and I know people that worked with Joey's dad long before Joey was a household name. Joey did not come up "quite the opposite of wealthy".
 
cheesepuffs said:
I'm from Connecticut and I know people that worked with Joey's dad long before Joey was a household name. Joey did not come up "quite the opposite of wealthy".
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Being from Connecticut you do know about Matt Kobylucks unspoken involvement with Logano Trucking right,?
Anyway, this is pointless . Joey wrenched with money. But, he wrenched....
 
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Nitro Dude said:
What's he wannabe that he has not already been?
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A bully. Whos he scared? Or intimidated? Without someone there to "hold him back"?

People keep referring to Biffle but what did he do before the jackman grabbed his scrawny ass and drug him away (as per usual Harvick "fights". Didn't change the way Biffle raced Harvick.that I could see?
 
Ford 222 said:
A bully. Whos he scared? Or intimidated? Without someone there to "hold him back"?

People keep referring to Biffle but what did he do before the jackman grabbed his scrawny ass and drug him away (as per usual Harvick "fights". Didn't change the way Biffle raced Harvick.that I could see?
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Harvick even later laughed at that and owned up to being childish.

The best was the incident with Ricky Rudd. I was too young to appreciate this at the time, but apparently Rudd was legitimately ready to kick his ass, and had to be pinned by his CC. Ricky in an interview this year even said so, he regrets not fighting him and believes he would have if his CC didn't hold him

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Ford 222 said:
A bully. Whos he scared? Or intimidated? Without someone there to "hold him back"?

People keep referring to Biffle but what did he do before the jackman grabbed his scrawny ass and drug him away (as per usual Harvick "fights". Didn't change the way Biffle raced Harvick.that I could see?
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Like I said what's he wannabe that he has not already been? Heck he has been a bully for years. No big news there. ;)
 
Ford 222 said:
A bully. Whos he scared? Or intimidated? Without someone there to "hold him back"?

People keep referring to Biffle but what did he do before the jackman grabbed his scrawny ass and drug him away (as per usual Harvick "fights". Didn't change the way Biffle raced Harvick.that I could see?
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Documented fact that Harvick couldn't catch KDB on pit road. don't know what he would have done to him if he had caught him. I think the bully name thing was started by Yota/Busch fans. Aparently Kyle was scared enough to drive thru his car and escape to the garage. I've noticed since Harvick did that Kyle hasn't turned him, hooked him or anything else and it has been years ago. I think Elliott is trying to do the same thing to Harvick and I bet it works.
 
StandOnIt said:
Documented fact that Harvick couldn't catch KDB on pit road. don't know what he would have done to him if he had caught him. I think the bully name thing was started by Yota/Busch fans. Aparently Kyle was scared enough to drive thru his car and escape to the garage. I've noticed since Harvick did that Kyle hasn't turned him, hooked him or anything else and it has been years ago. I think Elliott is trying to do the same thing to Harvick and I bet it works.
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Yeah but that was Kyle. Be the same if he grabbed Brad. Those two aren’t there to fight. Unless it’s Joey but I doubt Kyle does that again once he saw Joey‘s reflexes at his attempted sucker punch. Bullying Kyle hardly counts.
 
Nitro Dude said:
Like I said what's he wannabe that he has not already been? Heck he has been a bully for years. No big news there. ;)
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He’s been a bully in his own mind. Who, aside from Kyle, has he ever scared or actually did something to? Without his crew to “separate” him or “hold him back”?
 
jaqua19 said:
Harvick even later laughed at that and owned up to being childish.

The best was the incident with Ricky Rudd. I was too young to appreciate this at the time, but apparently Rudd was legitimately ready to kick his ass, and had to be pinned by his CC. Ricky in an interview this year even said so, he regrets not fighting him and believes he would have if his CC didn't hold him

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Yes, I read that. Thought he had grown up after reading his thoughts on that day with Biffle but he’s shown he still thinks he’s a tough guy…
 
Ford 222 said:
Yeah but that was Kyle. Be the same if he grabbed Brad. Those two aren’t there to fight. Unless it’s Joey but I doubt Kyle does that again once he saw Joey‘s reflexes at his attempted sucker punch. Bullying Kyle hardly counts.
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well once again the bully name came from disgruntled yota fans. Harvick reacting to being turned in my opinion doesn't have a thing to do with bullying if anything it would be a reaction from what happened to him. Elliott thinks the same thing about Harvick and had his reasons to believe so. Probably a better name would be intimidation, but ya know Yota fans, it's easier to spell.
 
StandOnIt said:
well once again the bully name came from disgruntled yota fans. Harvick reacting to being turned in my opinion doesn't have a thing to do with bullying if anything it would be a reaction from what happened to him. Elliott thinks the same thing about Harvick and had his reasons to believe so. Probably a better name would be intimidation, but ya know Yota fans, it's easier to spell.
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I wouldn’t apply intimidation to him either. Not when that term was applied to someone he thinks he replaced. Maybe in a seat but not in stature. Late Bobby Hamilton stated it best.
 
Ford 222 said:
I wouldn’t apply intimidation to him either. Not when that term was applied to someone he thinks he replaced. Maybe in a seat but not in stature. Late Bobby Hamilton stated it best.
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Stand on it is right, and Dale isn't the only driver entitled to intimidation

That's what Harvick is trying to do. But it didn't work.

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I reminisce fondly of the fisticuffs utilized in the in fields.... miss those days, much more exciting. Added a little spice to the bland politically correct demeanor of corporate impression.

That stuff had to go away though as more and more drivers became less and less physical in stature as technology made the vehicles easier and easier to drive.
 
OldTimer said:
I reminisce fondly of the fisticuffs utilized in the in fields.... miss those days, much more exciting. Added a little spice to the bland politically correct demeanor of corporate impression.

That stuff had to go away though as more and more drivers became less and less physical in stature as technology made the vehicles easier and easier to drive.
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A lot of these newer drivers are small in stature, but they're also gym rats, and some of those guys could probably bench press Jimmy Spencer and Tiny Lund at the same time. Anybody that can run a marathon one day and then run 500 miles in a stock car the next like Jimmie Johnson is alright in my book.
 
Formerjackman said:
A lot of these newer drivers are small in stature, but they're also gym rats, and some of those guys could probably bench press Jimmy Spencer and Tiny Lund at the same time. Anybody that can run a marathon one day and then run 500 miles in a stock car the next like Jimmie Johnson is alright in my book.
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Different form of muscles. Met Jimmy Johnson many a time, excellent physical shape, tiny, but wiry... but no way would he be able to go one on one with an ex linebacker...or a offensive lineman like Spencer or Lund was.
 
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