Hunting for new manufacturers

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by ChexOrWrex, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. LouieLouie

    LouieLouie Team Owner

    I know this is a super old thread but figured my link belonged here.

    This is a new Nissan GTR with 710hp. I thought it would be a great fit with the new camaro and mustang. Someone in the comments section even said it looks like a camaro.

    Anyway, recently (just for fun) I have been looking at other manufacturers to see if they even have a car that could compete with the camaro and mustang. Although the camry seems out of place. Hopefully the supra will be in the cup series in a few short years. Going back to Nissan, I think the GTR would be a great fit with the Camaro, Mustang, and Supra. It would be great to get the Titan in the truck series too.
    Well just some off-season stuff to talk about. Enjoy.
  2. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    Is the RCR Dodge ready to go?

    Sorry ... couldn’t help myself.
    Hawaii808 and Snappy D like this.
  3. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    Homoligation rules prevent that car from competing I'm pretty sure.

    Only problem with running a similarly designed Skyline is that the current R35 has been in production for what, ten years? A re-design is imminent, if they continue building Skyline's at all.
  4. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Like to see a mixture of electric and gas powered vehicles race each other.
  5. Johali

    Johali Team Owner Contributor

    Okay ya got me on that one. Google is my friend. :D
  6. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    -Being indicted
    -Dropping GT racing for Formula E

    Not good signs for Nissan involvement in NASCAR. They’re all in on electric.
    Hawaii808 and Team Penske like this.
  7. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Electric is the future and women will always wear the:D pants from now on.
  8. be9ak7ts16

    be9ak7ts16 Hick

    Please hold the electric revolution until they throw dirt on my face.
  9. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    ^ make it quick it is already here. :D
  10. Revman

    Revman Stop asking me about the package!

    Honestly, not big on the Supra in Cup (or in Xfinity for that matter). A BMW engine doesn't make a Toyota IMO. Just doesn't.....and I am not happy about it. The only way anybody will be able to legitimize the Supra is when that German thing is lifted in favor of a 2JZ. Then, the Supra will be reborn. Until that time, I look at the Supra like I look at one of MY NASCAR trucks with a spec engine----living a lie.
    FLRacingFan and 2 Sweet like this.
  11. ToyYoda

    ToyYoda Team Owner

    It’ll take a while to completely take hold. In the U.S. in 2017, Hybrids (which have been around almost 20 years) made up only a little over 2% of new vehicle sales, while full electrics accounted for just over 1%, most of those in California.
    LewTheShoe likes this.
  12. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    But new rules are coming all over the world ( except Trump Land) and people will be forced into it. Ford and GM are now committed so it won't be long.
    FLRacingFan likes this.
  13. wi_racefan

    wi_racefan Crew Chief

    Apparently GM isn't too committed as they're stopping production of the Volt
  14. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    What difference does it make if the street car has a BMW engine? The race engine is made up out of thin air anyway. No much different than Chevy racing a rebadged Holden
  15. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Can you buy a NASCAR TRD Motor in a Toyota?
  16. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Buy doesn't the Volt also have a gas engine to expand it's range?
    I am thinking it is already out dated so may as well scrap it.
  17. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    Nobody is making any money selling straight electric cars either. Its day may come, but it isn't now, and probably not any time in the near future. Gas may fall below $2 a gallon here in Indiana before Christmas.
  18. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    A TRD is an American design push rod engine called a small block in the racing circles. Psst, don't tell Revman though :cool: but it shows how unimportant the actual engine design or make of engine is. That huge manufacturer logo slapped on the front of the car is about all anybody goes by. A Toyota, or a Ford or a Chevy wins the race and gets credit for all of the parts and pieces others make.
    Ventisca and Spotter22 like this.
  19. Hawaii808

    Hawaii808 Team Owner

    The Volt was an unreliable turd that the dealers and the supply line were unprepared to support. Wife's was in the shop 4 out of the 18 months she had it. In two years her replacement Rav4 has spent 5 days in for routine maintenance.
  20. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    On the other hand, a friend of mine has a Volt and he thinks it's the greatest car ever built. He bought it slightly used, and I don't think it's EVER been in the shop for anything other than routine maintenance. Heck, my wife's Saturn Vue, which is not most people's idea of a great car, has 130,000 miles on it, and the ONLY non-maintenance repairs were the front brake hoses and the ignition switch, both of which I fixed myself. In the 12+ years since we bought it new, it spent one day in an independent shop getting the scheduled timing belt replacement, (didn't feel like tackling that one) and one afternoon at the dealer getting the shift points reprogrammed under warranty.
    2 Sweet likes this.
  21. darlingtonfan

    darlingtonfan Team Owner

    When you consider GM CEO Mary Barra's no hesitation in killing off slow selling cars I wonder how long the Chevrolet Camaro has left.It has been redesigned for 2019,but the guy heading up the Camaro program,Al Oppenheiser has just been reassigned to work on electric cars.In a few years it will be interesting to see what kind of vehicles are racing on a Sunday in NASCAR.
  22. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    According to all those millionaires that own multiple dealerships, no body is making any money.
    They just do it so you can have a job.
    There is a profit in every car sold during the first 5 months of a new model.
    Isn't that true Skoal.?
    IanMcVittie likes this.
  23. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Like all the Pontiac's that were built in a Toyota plant. ( and had Toy engines)
    But they do have the Pontiac grill and design.:D
  24. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    They just announced the closer of Oshawa's plant where the Camaro is being built.
    IanMcVittie likes this.
  25. 2 Sweet

    2 Sweet Legend

    The Camaro is made in Michigan.
  26. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    Ford will probably be in Formula E within the next two years as well (at the expense of the WEC Ford GT program). It's not the present, but it is the future. Tons of manufacturers are directing their motorsports efforts towards electric or at least hybrid tech-based series. Ford, Chevy, and Toyota aren't going anywhere though so NASCAR is fine, but I think the odds of NASCAR or IndyCar to get additional manufacturers to start a program around purpose-built racing engines that have no tech transfer or don't at least make their boards and management look good (probably more important, really) are low.
  27. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    Everybody's sweetheart Tesla has yet to make a dime of profit making cars, and is only still going because of the inflated stock price from investors that are sure it will be a powerhouse SOME day. If you take away subsidies, tax breaks and tax deductions, electric cars are an even bigger black hole.
    Mike Crayne likes this.
  28. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    That was the Vibe, which was a crash replacement for the failed Aztek (which certain hipsters have suddenly decided is now cool) and how many of those did they make? A couple thousand?
    2 Sweet likes this.
  29. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Not all of them.

    General Motors will close its production plant in Oshawa, Ont., along with four facilities in the U.S. as part of a global reorganization that will see the company focus on electric and autonomous vehicle programs.

    The auto manufacturer announced the closures as part of a sweeping strategy to transform its product line and manufacturing process in order to meet changing demand in the transportation industry, a plan that it says will save the company $6 billion (U.S.) by the year 2020.

    The General Motors Canada office in Oshawa, Ont., is photographed on Wednesday, June 20. GM have announced they are closing the plant along with four others in the U.S. (TIJANA MARTIN / THE CANADIAN PRESS FILE PHOTO)

    "This industry is changing very rapidly, when you look at all of the transformative technologies, be it propulsion, autonomous driving... These are things we're doing to strengthen the core business," GM chief executive and chairman Mary Barra told reporters on Monday. "We think it's appropriate to do it at a time, and get in front of it, while the company is strong and while the economy is strong."

    GM also says it will reduce salaried and salaried contract staff by 15 per cent, which includes 25 per cent fewer executives.

    GM is also closing the Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant in Detroit and the Lordstown Assembly in Warren, Ohio in 2019. GM propulsion plants in White Marsh, Maryland and Warren, Michigan will also be shut.
    Oshawa Car Assembly
    • Aerial view of the GM facilities in Oshawa.
    • The fifth-generation Chevrolet Camaro was a product of the Oshawa Car Assembly.
    • The Cadillac XTS is a current product of Oshawa Car Assembly.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
    IanMcVittie likes this.
  30. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Ooops, I see they swapped the Camaro for the XTS. I guess they knew ahead of time they were going to close this plant.
    IanMcVittie likes this.
  31. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    Focusing on products that few want and are unprofitable to build and sell. Sounds like a winning strategy to me. :rolleyes:
  32. Revman

    Revman Stop asking me about the package!

    Technically, yes (see below). I just don't think it is a good look for a company who wants to promote its "American-ess" and still recognized as "foreign" to promote a product that is both Japanese and now German in a series that still has pockets of resistance to its participation. Toyota pretty much farts rose petals in my world, but on this

    That TRD piece from 2010 (below) sure is something though, isn't it?

  33. Revman

    Revman Stop asking me about the package!

    I have never pretended that what is under the hood of a customer Toyota has anything to do with what is on the track (but you know that). What is under the hood, however, represents the manufacturer and (especially in the case of TRD given that they are a quasi-factory entity) their ability to compete and engineer those parts and pieces. I root for that.....and those sexy TRD valve covers. Stunning in person, really.
  34. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Come on Rev :rolleyes: But yeah thats a nice piece
    Revman likes this.
  35. IanMcVittie

    IanMcVittie Team Owner

    I think @FLRacingFan said it best but I will add a couple of pennies worth.

    With respect to a new manufacturer joining Nascar what is the value proposition? Is it to entertain suppliers and employees? Build brand awareness? Develop technology that can be applied to consumer products? Affiliate your brand with a cool property like Nascar? Build B2B relationships?

    If I am head of marketing of a manufacturer and make a pitch for our company to race in Nascar what do I say to convince them? A cursory look shows year over year losses continue unabated and the series has an audience with an average age of 60! At the rate things are going in 5 years several races will draw less than 1 million viewers and attendance at several races will be less than 30k. What would I say to the CEO that would show that it would be worth spending millions and millions to join the series?
    Ventisca likes this.
  36. Ventisca

    Ventisca Team Owner Contributor

    Yup, and laying out to the decision makers on how many different type race cars they need to competitively build, might make their head spin? Perhaps Larry McReynolds could give the presentation with his enthusiastic southern drawl. :D

    Perhaps they could gain limited entry thru the Super Speedway races -- work their way to road courses, then "short" tracks, followed by the 1.5s.

    Daytona and Talladega (yeah, I spelled it out...) would be good showcase events, and if they maintained position in the pack -- they get their grill and hood on TV.
    IanMcVittie likes this.
  37. gone

    gone Team Owner

    Actually you're pushing misinformation (that's a nice way to put it)...
    Tesla has had profitable quarters. Not many, but also not zero.
    If investors are willing to take the risk they can set the stock price wherever they like. Only the short sellers are complaining.
    Some people expect Tesla to fold once its tax credits expire, yet hundreds of thousands of people gladly paid $1000 to get onto the Model 3 waiting list - even after being warned that they would probably not get a tax credit by the time they took delivery of their cars. So it appears that there are plenty of people who are motivated by more than a tax credit.
    Also, other electric car manufacturers are not effected by Tesla's tax credits getting phased out - except maybe by picking up a few customers who do care about the tax credit. Each manufacturer has its own tax credit quota (200,000 cars).
    Meanwhile, if you took away all of the government subsidies that the oil industry has enjoyed for decades (and has totaled much more than any electric car company has ever gotten) then we could all be paying $4 or much more per gallon of gasoline. You might not want to hate on electrics so much - they leave more gasoline available for your favorite cars, and help keep the price down by lowering demand.
  38. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    Well, color it any way you want, but here are some choice excerpts from a an October 24th New york Times article;

    Tesla on Wednesday reported its first quarterly profit in two years and its biggest ever. But for the electric-car maker and its unpredictable chief, the question is whether it can keep making money.

    The company’s third-quarter earnings were helped by cost-cutting, spending less on future models, delaying payments to suppliers and, most important, rushing to sell as many cars as possible. It may not be able to do all those things quarter after quarter.

    In the 15 years since Mr. Musk and his partners founded Tesla, the company has never reported an annual profit. In previous quarters, the company’s costs increased as it made more cars. To finance its operations, Tesla, which also makes solar panels and batteries, has had to sell stock, take out loans and ask customers to make $1,000 refundable deposits for cars and energy products that they might not get for many months.

    The profit the company reported in the third quarter will help stabilize Tesla’s finances and end a streak of quarters in which the automaker used close to $1 billion in cash. In the second quarter, the company reported a $718 million loss.

    The company, which until recently only sold tens of thousands of luxury cars a year, will need to find many more buyers for the Model 3, which sells for $46,000 to $64,000 before federal and state tax incentives.

    Tesla next year is supposed to start making a more affordable version of the Model 3 priced at $35,000, and Mr. Musk has said that Tesla would lose money on that model if the company produced it now. The cheaper Model 3 is important because the $7,500 federal tax credit available to buyers of Tesla cars will be cut by half on Jan. 1 and phased out entirely over the course of 2019, making the company’s cars more expensive.

    Even though Tesla is finally hitting its stride in production, “the company isn’t out of the woods yet,” said Jeremy Acevedo, manager of industry analysis at Edmunds, a market researcher. “The $35,000 Model 3 remains a fantasy, and with the full tax credit for that car now off the table, it will be interesting to see how many buyers are willing to keep waiting for it to be a reality.”

    The company is still struggling to deliver cars to customers, which Mr. Musk has described as “delivery logistics hell.The quality of the Model 3 has also come under question as many customers have complained about receiving cars with scratched paint, cracked windows and other defects.

    Consumer Reports on Wednesday lowered Tesla’s reliability ranking by six places, to 27th out of 29 automakers. The magazine said its members complained about the suspension in the company’s full-size Model S sedan.

    If sales falter, the company could quickly find itself in a financial squeeze. It has to make bond payments of $230 million in November and $920 million in March. It can use stock for the second payment but only if its share price is above $360. At the same time, Tesla hopes to build a factory in China, which will require hundreds of millions of dollars in capital expenses.

    I'm not saying Tesla won't EVER be successful, BUT they have a LONG way to go, and this article points out several things that are quite troubling. I will continue to maintain that thus far Tesla has survived because of the hip factor associated with it, and NOT because they have shown any particular ability to be a successful auto manufacturer. If this were any normal company selling some mundane product without all of the smoke and mirrors attached to it, it would have been closed down a LONG time ago. When it comes to the ability to actually turn a straight up profit on what they make without resorting to accounting tricks, the only difference between Tesla and Sears is that Tesla is "cool" and Sears stopped being cool about three decades ago.
    Mike Crayne likes this.
  39. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Most of you pay is around $2.50 a gallon, Our gas just went down from $5.35
    to $4.40 per US gallon. That is the lowest in my area since 2016. It is a 36 mile
    round trip to get to the nearest town.
  40. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Tesla is a suckers nightmare. Sooner or later Musk will be forced out and people who know manufacturing will step in and turn things around. Electric cars will be the future and they have proven to be just as good as gas cars.

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