I don't get it.

Charlie Spencer said:
If it's precalculated, what's with the parade laps with two packs each following separate pace cars at pit road speed? Just an obsolete tradition?
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The pace cars haven't reflected pit road speed for some time now. They are moving them at a faster clip.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, how did you know?
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What I did was have a buddy drive from 30 to 70 at 10 mph increments 2 different times. When he hit 30 I wrote down what the tach reading was and so on and so forth. Were the speeds exact? Probably not but I never got pulled over for speeding so it worked well until the speedo cable was replaced.
 
It seems to me this is not about racing. It is about TV coverage and sponsors.

When there aren't enough yellow flags to let the TV company to play all their commercials, they run their ads during green flag racing and we complain.
When they go to split-screen, we watch the race not the ads and the TV folks complain.
So NASCAR throws phony cautions and we complain.

So, ultimately, they built in "innings" to make the TV folks happy, but we complain.
 
I'm not so sure the racing is going to be that different at most tracks. The biggest thing will probably wind up being giving viewers a reason to stay tuned in for the early portions of a race and throughout the summer months.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The biggest thing will probably wind up being giving viewers a reason to stay tuned in for the early portions of a race and throughout the summer months.
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That's the thing I like about stage racing. The stretch of races between Memorial Day and Labor Day have been essentially meaningless the last three years, it'll be good that all the guys who already have wins by the summer will have continued incentive to go 100%.
 
bustedknee said:
It seems to me this is not about racing. It is about TV coverage and sponsors.

When there aren't enough yellow flags to let the TV company to play all their commercials, they run their ads during green flag racing and we complain.
When they go to split-screen, we watch the race not the ads and the TV folks complain.
So NASCAR throws phony cautions and we complain.

So, ultimately, they built in "innings" to make the TV folks happy, but we complain.
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Leave me out of this as I never complain about commercials because I always fast forward through them when watching Nascar or other TV programs I don't stream. From what I understand having stages in Nascar where many commercials are shown is really a good thing as fans have 10-15 minutes to take a break and do some other things without worrying about missing green flag action.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I'm not so sure the racing is going to be that different at most tracks. The biggest thing will probably wind up being giving viewers a reason to stay tuned in for the early portions of a race and throughout the summer months.
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I don't see much changing either as if a driver has a car capable of leading he will try and lead early and often and if not he will try and settle in and hope his car can be improved or just take what the day will give him. IMO Kyle Busch is the only driver who regularly stretches his car's ability which has obviously been a high risk;/high reward proposition for him. Some of the younger guys (or Jaimie McMurray!) may push the envelope but I don't see guys like Kenseth, Johnson or Truex putting themselves at risk by trying to take a 10th place car and make into a 5th place car at least in the first 2 stages. JMO.
 
ToyYoda said:
That's the thing I like about stage racing. The stretch of races between Memorial Day and Labor Day have been essentially meaningless the last three years, it'll be good that all the guys who already have wins by the summer will have continued incentive to go 100%.
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It will be interesting to see if the generally lackluster 100 days or so between Memorial Day and Labor Day can be improved and if people are actually tuning in to find out. For me personally that stretch can be brutal as I am not crazy about some of the tracks and racing that is produced.
 
SpeedPagan said:
I watched the Atlanta race yesterday and I just don't get it. What are the stages supposed to do? If it was supposed to enhance the racing product, then it failed, miserably. IMHO the race would've played out in similar ways regardless of whether or not it had stages. It decreased the amount of "debris" caution. Honestly I think the new Five Minutes of repair rules did more towards that end than the segments did. As for reduction in commercials, yea, no. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but yesterday's race felt like it had the same amount of commercials the races last year did.

As far as I can tell, the stages just made the points system needlessly more complicated. Like I said in the title, I just don't get it.
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You dont need to look any further than the points standings after only two races to figure out what its doing.

Harvick has finished 22nd and 9th in the first two races of the season.. but has won 3 segments and finds himself on top of the driver standings right now. It rewards drivers for running up front, even if they crash out or just blow it for the end of the race. Lets say he can continue to do his Harvick thing and run up front without winning races theres a good chance he could end up cashing in some serious playoff points at the end of the regular season.

That being said.. hopefully he doesnt. :D

Just an example.. I get it.. and its working.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
People complain too much.. and we wonder why our next generation is so soft.

Watch the damn race and hope your favorite driver does better than the rest and your fantasy lineups finish P1-5.

Everything else is irrelevant.
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I didn't care for the segments but I've came to that conclusion.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
People complain too much.. and we wonder why our next generation is so soft.

Watch the damn race and hope your favorite driver does better than the rest and your fantasy lineups finish P1-5.

Everything else is irrelevant.
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Or do what I do and just enjoy each race as a stand alone event that doesn't award any points to any participants or crown a season long champion.
 
R Clarence said:
The segment thing is seriously lacking.

Many more gimmicks are needed. I'm working on procedures for a scavenger hunt between the action action packed segments for elimination points. GO DANICA!
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If you could work in a demo derby for the drivers at halftime I would be much obliged.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
People complain too much.. and we wonder why our next generation is so soft.

Watch the damn race and hope your favorite driver does better than the rest and your fantasy lineups finish P1-5.

Everything else is irrelevant.
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And ..... if it so happens that your favorite driver wins, then go to RF and start 89 threads in 5 minutes ;)
 
R Clarence said:
The segment thing is seriously lacking.

Many more gimmicks are needed. I'm working on procedures for a scavenger hunt between the action action packed segments for elimination points. GO DANICA!
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How about a yoga pose off at the start/finish line at segment end. She would at least get a top five then.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
It will be interesting to see if the generally lackluster 100 days or so between Memorial Day and Labor Day can be improved and if people are actually tuning in to find out. For me personally that stretch can be brutal as I am not crazy about some of the tracks and racing that is produced.
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That's the time I used to look forward to Tony stepping up his game after taking all spring to get warmed up.
 
ToyYoda said:
That's the thing I like about stage racing. The stretch of races between Memorial Day and Labor Day have been essentially meaningless the last three years, it'll be good that all the guys who already have wins by the summer will have continued incentive to go 100%.
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Meaningless? Not really seeing how it is all about winning now to secure a Chase birth, but of course that could be eliminated if the old points system were back in place. Nascar keeps F'ing up a good thing, first it was the Chase, the tweaks to the Chase, now this latest gimmick ....stages. They don't learn their lesson, how many empty seats were there at Atlanta? Vegas will be pretty much full and so will Phoenix , but I'll go out on a limb here and say most of the other tracks will have a lot of empty seats and a lot less tv viewers.:rolleyes:
 
R Clarence said:
The segment thing is seriously lacking.

Many more gimmicks are needed. I'm working on procedures for a scavenger hunt between the action action packed segments for elimination points. GO DANICA!
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They should do what Tony Stewar said a few years back, run a figure 8 then run it reverse and then have half the field go one way and the rest the opposite. I'm not ready to give up on Stage racing yet, I realize it's a gimmick but I'm giving it to Martinsville in the spring.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Meaningless? Not really seeing how it is all about winning now to secure a Chase birth, but of course that could be eliminated if the old points system were back in place. Nascar keeps F'ing up a good thing, first it was the Chase, the tweaks to the Chase, now this latest gimmick ....stages. They don't learn their lesson, how many empty seats were there at Atlanta? Vegas will be pretty much full and so will Phoenix , but I'll go out on a limb here and say most of the other tracks will have a lot of empty seats and a lot less tv viewers.:rolleyes:
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Meaningless in that most of the drivers who win during the summer months are the guys who have long since wrapped up a chase berth. Tony Stewart and Chris Buescher were the exceptions last year, but most of the drivers that win in the summer stretch gained nothing other than 3 disposable chase points that went away after Dover. There's more on the line now in those summer races, which I think will be good.
 
Snappy D said:
I'm not ready to give up on Stage racing yet, I realize it's a gimmick but I'm giving it to Martinsville in the spring.
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What one guy sees as a gimmick, another guy just sees as a choice of how to structure the competition. There are no absolute truths on this matter, just opinions, and they cover a wide range.

It is my opinion that one of the worst gimmicks in Nascar history is to use a ridiculously flat points scale that under-rewards winning and over-rewards those who don't... all for the sake of keeping the points tallies close. Thankfully, the revised championship format places a little more emphasis on winning.

As for the stages, I'm in wait-and-see mode, but so far I'm reasonably favorable.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
The Chase, err payoffs, in NASCAR is a convoluted joke. All other changes pale in comparison. They are not even close in any way shape or form. The single change of implementing a playoff format of any kind in this sport was and continues to be it's downfall. All the other competition changes since 2004 are an attempt to bring this sport back to its pre-Chase glory while a blind eye is turned to the real problem. While the real problem is ignored, they'll continue to alienate the current fan base in an attempt to grab the ADD crowd that is concerned with things such as the noise factor and other trivial pursuits that will eventually turn this sport into a distant memory for a once promising and growing fandom.
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It continues to amaze me how out of touch NASCAR is with their core fanbase. I can understand wanting to attract new fans but the first thing you should always keep in mind is to never, ever piss off your base. Yet they continue to do just that over and over.
 
LewTheShoe said:
What one guy sees as a gimmick, another guy just sees as a choice of how to structure the competition. There are no absolute truths on this matter, just opinions, and they cover a wide range.

It is my opinion that one of the worst gimmicks in Nascar history is to use a ridiculously flat points scale that under-rewards winning and over-rewards those who don't... all for the sake of keeping the points tallies close. Thankfully, the revised championship format places a little more emphasis on winning.

As for the stages, I'm in wait-and-see mode, but so far I'm reasonably favorable.
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I respect your opinion. I preferred the ridiculously flat Winston Cup points system that rewarded a full season body of work instead of what we have now. But that's an argument for another time, I think what we will have now is a bit more fair full season wise than 2014,2015 and 2016. However if it comes down to it, I wonder how people would take it if a driver won 1 race but won a bunch of stages, was ultra consistent with his race finishes (top 5's top10's) and ended up wining the Championship as opposed to a driver who won 8-10 races but didn't win as many stages.
 
Snappy D said:
I respect your opinion. I preferred the ridiculously flat Winston Cup points system that rewarded a full season body of work instead of what we have now. But that's an argument for another time, I think what we will have now is a bit more fair full season wise than 2014,2015 and 2016. However if it comes down to it, I wonder how people would take it if a driver won 1 race but won a bunch of stages, was ultra consistent with his race finishes (top 5's top10's) and ended up wining the Championship as opposed to a driver who won 8-10 races but didn't win as many stages.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't winning the entire race worth more than winning stages?
 
SpeedPagan said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't winning the entire race worth more than winning stages?
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Define 'worth'. Winning a race is worth 40 points, and winning a stage only 10, but coming in second in both stages and the race itself is worth 53 (9+9+35) points. (I think that's right, but it's too early to check.) Many people feel the winner should be guaranteed to walk away with the most total points for the event.

I kind of agree, at least to the extent that winning a stage has too big a payoff. I don't see how NASCAR can reduce it while maintaining the stated goal of encouraging driver aggression. If you cut the points down to 5 for a stage win, then you're only going to be able to award points for positions 1 through 5, not down through position 10. The fewer positions that get points, the less reason for anyone outside 5th to push during those last few laps.

The other option would be to increase the points awarded for the final positions. There's a fine line there, and on the far side of it is 'points inflation'. If the difference between stage points and final points becomes too great, it becomes no longer worth risking the car for stage points and losing out on the final payoff.

Huh. Econ 101. Who knew?
 
carolinabuff said:
It continues to amaze me how out of touch NASCAR is with their core fanbase. I can understand wanting to attract new fans but the first thing you should always keep in mind is to never, ever piss off your base. Yet they continue to do just that over and over.
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Precisely why the stands are becoming less full every year. I used to go to 1 to 2 races per year, sometimes 3, but now you won't catch me going to Cup race and wasting my money. The local scene continues to be where it's at, the national level not so much.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Precisely why the stands are becoming less full every year. I used to go to 1 to 2 races per year, sometimes 3, but now you won't catch me going to Cup race and wasting my money. The local scene continues to be where it's at, the national level not so much.
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Agreed 100%, the local level is where the real racing is, that and ARCA.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Agreed 100%, the local level is where the real racing is, that and ARCA.
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I like the ARCA Races at Chicagoland, would love to make it out to the smaller Midwest tracks they go to. Fairgrounds in Nashville would be awesome to attend I think
 
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