I'm already sick of the chase and it hasn't started yet.

NasNYG567 said:
The Chase is entertaining, and I watch NASCAR (or anything for that matter) to be entertained.
Click to expand...
I guess that's a difference between us. I don't find the Chase entertaining. I think it has too many random aspects to be used for determining a champion. I think it ignores season-long performance. There's definitely something wrong with a system where a driver can win 35 races, finish second in the 36th, and not be guaranteed of being the champion.
 
DaBiff1618 said:
The chase makes NASCAR worth talking about this time of year, end of story.
Click to expand...
If the first 26 races were worth talking about, why would a gimmick be required to make the last 10 worthwhile?

If the first 26 weren't worth talking about, how does a gimmick make the last 10 any better?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I guess that's a difference between us. I don't find the Chase entertaining. I think it has too many random aspects to be used for determining a champion. I think it ignores season-long performance. There's definitely something wrong with a system where a driver can win 35 races, finish second in the 36th, and not be guaranteed of being the champion.
Click to expand...

The Carolina Panthers were 17-1 going into the Super Bowl but they weren't promise a championship going into the final game.

Not saying that I'm disagreeing with you but just throwing it out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I guess that's a difference between us. I don't find the Chase entertaining. I think it has too many random aspects to be used for determining a champion. I think it ignores season-long performance. There's definitely something wrong with a system where a driver can win 35 races, finish second in the 36th, and not be guaranteed of being the champion.
Click to expand...

It isn't for me to tell another person what they should or should not like as that is an individual decision. I am in the same camp as you are and see the chase as fundamentally flawed and furthermore I see it as just another gimmick in a long line of gimmicks that preclude Nascar from being called a sport.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If the first 26 races were worth talking about, why would a gimmick be required to make the last 10 worthwhile?

If the first 26 weren't worth talking about, how does a gimmick make the last 10 any better?
Click to expand...

There is something terribly wrong when the winner of the Daytona 500 is guaranteed of making the chase or a back marker hovering in 30th place can win a rain shortened event and make it too.
 
Biggreen695 said:
The Carolina Panthers were 17-1 going into the Super Bowl but they weren't promise a championship going into the final game.

Not saying that I'm disagreeing with you but just throwing it out there.
Click to expand...
Playoffs in other team sports don't easily compare to NASCAR.

The length of the football season makes it impossible for each team to play all the others every year, or even a majority. Since each of the 32 teams will play only 13 of the others in the regular season, some playoff method is needed to determine a champion. (Even with playoffs, the winning team will only face 17 different teams at most, possibly as few as 14. An argument could be made that the Super Bowl winner isn't a 'real' champion because it hasn't beaten every team.) In NASCAR, each team competes against all the others every single week. (This is why the notion of an 'All Star' race doesn't translate well to NASCAR either, and why gimmicks are needed to draw attention to it too.) A playoff isn't needed to determine how they measure up against each other; the points system handles that.

Once stick and ball playoffs start, the competing teams face only other playoff teams. They don't face the prospect of a non-playoff team beating them that week, or interfering with their progress. NASCAR requires sponsors who pay to be seen all season. Those non-playoff cars are going to be out there during the Chase, unavoidably affecting the performance of playoff teams.

In most other sports, teams with the best regular season records get to play at home for most or all of the playoff season. The better they do through the playoffs, the longer they get to stay home and have the opponent come to them. In NASCAR, Chase drivers don't get to pick the tracks they want to run on. They're stuck with whatever tracks are the last 10 on the schedule, as determined by ... well, they just happened to be the last 10 when the Chase was established.
 
Last edited:
If they ran the Boston Marathon and then gathered all the runners together to draw straws for the win , that would resemble our chase . Absolutely off the wall crazy.
 
I just don't see the folks who run baseball, football, golf or tennis changing their sport to try to save it.
 
Under the prechase system, at this time of the year the two or three leaders would be points racing for the remaining races. I've come to like the current playoff system. Either way I still get to see 10 races.
 
The Chase is simply a failed attempt at boosting the ratings. It was created to give NASCAR its game #7 moment. The most recent changes to make Homestead the deciding race each and every time has done just that. Brian now has his guaranteed game #7 moment at the cost of a long time fanbase. I'm certainly not speaking for all long time fans. I'm only speaking my thoughts on the Chase.

Someday many will be celebrating Double J's 7th Championship having equaled other greats like Petty & Earnhardt. Others, like me, will feel the the Championship of today will never compare to the season's long body of work that preceded the Chase era. I'm not saying the road to the Championship of today is an easy one. It's not but it's also not a true seasons Champion IMO. I have a real tough time seeing drivers crowned champion that don't even participate in the entire season. This is not a stick & ball sport. It is/was unique. Now, it's just like every other sport.

Brian will create Chase fans, one random Champion at a time. Guys like me will be gone soon enough. For now though, I don't mind be labeled a Chase Hater at all. That's who I am.
 
From a business perspective it's better than the championship being locked up early, giving fans no reason to watch over the NFL.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
The Chase is simply a failed attempt at boosting the ratings. It was created to give NASCAR its game #7 moment. The most recent changes to make Homestead the deciding race each and every time has done just that. Brian now has his guaranteed game #7 moment at the cost of a long time fanbase. I'm certainly not speaking for all long time fans. I'm only speaking my thoughts on the Chase.

Someday many will be celebrating Double J's 7th Championship having equaled other greats like Petty & Earnhardt. Others, like me, will feel the the Championship of today will never compare to the season's long body of work that preceded the Chase era. I'm not saying the road to the Championship of today is an easy one. It's not but it's also not a true seasons Champion IMO. I have a real tough time seeing drivers crowned champion that don't even participate in the entire season. This is not a stick & ball sport. It is/was unique. Now, it's just like every other sport.

Brian will create Chase fans, one random Champion at a time. Guys like me will be gone soon enough. For now though, I don't mind be labeled a Chase Hater at all. That's who I am.
Click to expand...

I hate the Chase too, but, in fairness, Petty's championships can't be compared to Earnhardt's either. Petty won three of his championships under systems where points awards varied depending on the purse (1967), based on the length of the track (1971), or were only awarded for completion of laps (1972). Only Earnhardt won all his championships under a consistent points system.
 
NasNYG567 said:
From a business perspective it's better than the championship being locked up early, giving fans no reason to watch over the NFL.
Click to expand...
I'd agree IF it was accomplishing that. But even here, on a NASCAR forum, there are people who talk about opting for the ballgame and recording the race to (maybe) watch it later. Then there are those in the (hopefully small minority) group that the Chase has actively driven away from the final races. The Chase isn't keeping the attention of those interested enough in NASCAR to seek out and join a forum; it's not going to get the attention of casual fans.

It's not serving the purpose it was created for.
 
29-4 said:
I hate the Chase too, but, in fairness, Petty's championships can't be compared to Earnhardt's either. Petty won three of his championships under systems where points awards varied depending on the purse (1967), based on the length of the track (1971), or were only awarded for completion of laps (1972). Only Earnhardt won all his championships under a consistent points system.
Click to expand...
So, I guess we'll just have to agree that Earnhardt was the best then. ;)

Seriously though, even Petty's was determined over a season long point total. No reset's, no gimmick's. Just racing.

Not trying to convince anybody of anything. We've all got our minds made up on this. Again, these are just my thoughts.
 
ToyYoda said:
The chase is around for one simple reason: to try to keep viewers from defecting to the NFL. As the TV ratings have always indicated, a lot of people ditch NASCAR once the NFL season starts, as many are fans of both. It was a good idea on paper, but it hasn't done a thing to reverse that trend.
Click to expand...

I think Nascar could have made some tweaks to the classic points system that would not have caused a rebellion yet would have rewarded victories and whatever other performances bonuses were deemed worthy. Instead Nascar decided going completely off the rez and turning its championship into a punchline was the correct course of action which has proven to be anything but correct. When the best thing that can happen to you is having your final event rain delayed so it eats into the NFL pregame show you know you have problems.

While I believe that Nascar hastened the departure of many of its fans I don't think there was much they could have done in order to get younger people interested as for whatever reasons traditional American motorsports don't seem to resonate with them even on a small scale. When I was a youngster it was normal for the lady of the house not to work outside of the home, to have sit down breakfasts and dinners as a family and do other things like going on picnics. It seemed everyone smoked like chimneys and normally people got a new car every few years. I know people still do those things but nowhere near the extent of what they used to and that may be the future for Nascar in that it is still around but just with a smaller footprint.
 
ted@economy said:
I just don't see the folks who run baseball, football, golf or tennis changing their sport to try to save it.
Click to expand...

Football and hockey have made a lot of changes over the last 10-20-30 years but it has been with an eye to improve the game not to turn it into a farce.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
The Chase is simply a failed attempt at boosting the ratings. It was created to give NASCAR its game #7 moment. The most recent changes to make Homestead the deciding race each and every time has done just that. Brian now has his guaranteed game #7 moment at the cost of a long time fanbase. I'm certainly not speaking for all long time fans. I'm only speaking my thoughts on the Chase.

Someday many will be celebrating Double J's 7th Championship having equaled other greats like Petty & Earnhardt. Others, like me, will feel the the Championship of today will never compare to the season's long body of work that preceded the Chase era. I'm not saying the road to the Championship of today is an easy one. It's not but it's also not a true seasons Champion IMO. I have a real tough time seeing drivers crowned champion that don't even participate in the entire season. This is not a stick & ball sport. It is/was unique. Now, it's just like every other sport.

Brian will create Chase fans, one random Champion at a time. Guys like me will be gone soon enough. For now though, I don't mind be labeled a Chase Hater at all. That's who I am.
Click to expand...

Very well said.

As far as game 7 moments go I believe that some sports naturally lend themselves to intrigue and cliffhangers as the Thursday and Sunday night NFL games came down to the last play to determine the winner. The nationally televised game on Sunday afternoon featured the Giants scoring late to beat the Cowboys in Dallas and it also featured a good performance by Dak Prescott the Cowboys rookie quarterback. In Philadelphia it was RG3 with new team Cleveland going up against a rookie QB for the Eagles that Browns management could have drafted but decided he was not a viable NFL player. Young Carson Wentz made the Brownies eat their words.

IMO, Nascar just doesn't lend itself to things like that because there is 1 game (race) per week instead of 16 and for every Kurt Busch/Ricky Craven finish you are going to have a lot more where the winner crosses the stripe under no pressure from the second place car. I have no problem with that just as I don't have a problem with long green flag runs, drivers winning under yellow, only a handful of cars on the lead lap or a car checking out on the field due to non aero reasons. because that's racin'
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Football and hockey have made a lot of changes over the last 10-20-30 years but it has been with an eye to improve the game not to turn it into a farce.
Click to expand...
C'mon, NASCAR's goal obviously isn't to turn the sport into a farce. I see the big mistake as not accepting that the sport won't compete with football. The smaller mistake is not acknowledging that the crowds of the late '90s and early '00s were an anomoly, similar to the tennis craze of the '70s and '80s. Stop trying to compete with the 800-lb gorilla, accept that the sport has returned to the early '90s audience size, and most of the 'problems' go away. The sport will continue just fine, but at a lower level on the scale of US sports awareness.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
C'mon, NASCAR's goal obviously isn't to turn the sport into a farce. I see the big mistake as not accepting that the sport won't compete with football. The smaller mistake is not acknowledging that the crowds of the late '90s and early '00s were an anomoly, similar to the tennis craze of the '70s and '80s. Stop trying to compete with the 800-lb gorilla, accept that the sport has returned to the early '90s audience size, and most of the 'problems' go away. The sport will continue just fine, but at a lower level on the scale of US sports awareness.
Click to expand...

Problem is the money's out of scale for that now.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Having the championship locked up early never concerned me as if there was a race or 2 left it changed the dynamic of them.
Click to expand...

I'm too young to vividly remember NASCAR pre-chase but I would imagine it wouldn't bother me too much either. But the fact of the matter is from 98-03 with the exception of 2002 the championship was locked up before Atlanta/Loudon/Homestead, so I can imagine a part of the fan base being sick of this and wanting a '92 like championship battle, and thus the Chase was born.
 
aunty dive said:
Golf changed theirs by instituting the Fedex Cup Playoffs.
Click to expand...

I am like Sargent Schultz when it comes to the PGA but prior to the playoffs I don't recall golf having a season's champ so they didn't screw up anything that was working in order to implement it and I bet they don't have waivers allowing duffers who could only participate in 70% of PGA events to make the playoffs.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I am like Sargent Schultz when it comes to the PGA but prior to the playoffs I don't recall golf having a season's champ so they didn't screw up anything that was working in order to implement it and I bet they don't have waivers allowing duffers who could only participate in 70% of PGA events to make the playoffs.
Click to expand...
The points system for the FedEx Cup makes NASCAR'S old system look like child's play. And yes as long as you finish high enough in the tournies you do play in you can make the final 30 for the big money and Championship in the end.
 
kk5fan said:
The points system for the FedEx Cup makes NASCAR'S old system look like child's play. And yes as long as you finish high enough in the tournies you do play in you can make the final 30 for the big money and Championship in the end.
Click to expand...
O, good, it's not just me. Golf's points system eludes me.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
C'mon, NASCAR's goal obviously isn't to turn the sport into a farce. I see the big mistake as not accepting that the sport won't compete with football. The smaller mistake is not acknowledging that the crowds of the late '90s and early '00s were an anomoly, similar to the tennis craze of the '70s and '80s. Stop trying to compete with the 800-lb gorilla, accept that the sport has returned to the early '90s audience size, and most of the 'problems' go away. The sport will continue just fine, but at a lower level on the scale of US sports awareness.
Click to expand...

I am an advocate of finishing up the season on Labor Day and/or having Nascar compete as few a times as possible with anything pigskin related. Regarding Nascar's changes I think they were either done to create more interest or at the behest of the Networks or some combination of the 2.

Nascar has 2 problems in my estimation with the first being an aged fan base and the second being more leave each year then join.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I am like Sargent Schultz when it comes to the PGA but prior to the playoffs I don't recall golf having a season's champ so they didn't screw up anything that was working in order to implement it and I bet they don't have waivers allowing duffers who could only participate in 70% of PGA events to make the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Players can miss as many pre-playoff tournaments as they like. Waivers aren't necessary.

Bet lost.
 
aunty dive said:
Players can miss as many pre-playoff tournaments as they like. Waivers aren't necessary.

Bet lost.
Click to expand...

It sounds like a system the Wood Bros would like as you could cherry pick the events you wished to enter and pass on the others. I hope you can't miss 25% or so of the tournaments and still qualify as that cheapens things unless they extend the t-box out for them.
 
A mid 20's friend of my son who isn't a racing fan was over the night of the Darlington race and asked me, "How do they keep score?"

In about 10 seconds I explained how the championship was determined prior to the Chase.

After about two minutes of me trying to explain the current championship format he laughed and said, "Never mind. It's not that important."
 
Last edited:
Skoalbandit33 said:
There is something terribly wrong when the winner of the Daytona 500 is guaranteed of making the chase or a back marker hovering in 30th place can win a rain shortened event and make it too.
Click to expand...
It's some of these happenings that I actually find entertaining.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom